Neoro

Thanx, Whitelabel!
So what is the chance to pass this anomalscope? Can you tell me please a bit about it or give a link to related document& (i couldn't find anything about it)

Thank you

whitelabel

This is a nice peace if literature:

http://www.city.ac.uk/avrc/members/j...lour_study.pdf

All kind of different tests are described and if you check my previous posts you can find the exact way of testing. You can check google under the word: Nagel Anomaloscope.

If you need more info you can always ask.

greetz

Bendoverstewardess

Hey Neoro,

Bit late - but the Ishihara does have small numbers on it.

I have the 24 plate version, and the 38 plate version. You can buy them on Ebay.

The numbers are too small to read, especially as the doctor makes your read them at arms length.

The individual plates are the same in all tests, whichever doctor you go to. The 38 plate test consists of the 24 plate test plus a few more.

At Gatwick you only have to name the 1st 15 plates - but no mistakes are allowed.

If you only got 1-2 wrong, it may be worth buying the book and 'getting used' to them.

Happening

If i have a american atpl but i am colour blind can i fly with an irish airline and can i train in ireland to get a FAA atpl

Blinkz

No to fly for a european airline you need to have a JAA licence. It may be possible to train in Ireland for a FAA licence, but that just depends if there is a school with the right instructors. Even if you get a FAA licence it cannot be used to fly European aircraft.

corkscrew

This site: http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002361.html claims that colourblindness can one day likely be cured using gene therapy.
Does anyone know if progress has been made in that field?

Happening

I have mild colour blindness. I have taken and passed the (City University test and Farnsworth Hue 100 test). In your opinion do you think would i be able to get a JAA or FAA class 1 medical.

gijoe

JAA - no as neither is an accepted test.

FAA - yes, maybe, as they are much more liberal with their requirements.

G

Delta Lima

H i Guys
Can anyone please answer this?
I am color blind...very
I have failed isihara tests several times and although i have not done a lantern test I must asume I will fail that as well.
My question is this.
I believe I need a class 2 medical for instructor work on an FAA CPL but is it possible to get a class 2 with a restriction similar to my class 3
(no night flying or by color control) thus enabling me to get an FAA CPL and work as an instructor in USA or preferably the version needed for similar work in New Zealand.
Grateful for any info on this subject.
DL

dogsbody711

I too am colour blind and thinking of taking the lantern test. Is there any hope of me getting some form of cpl if i fail? currently restricted to daytime flying.

many thanks,

Dogsbody.

2close

Dogsbody,
Yes, you can at present obtain a UK CAA issued CPL with a deviation limiting you to No Public Transport, i.e. no fare paying passengers and no freight, and Daytime only. It effectively restricts you to aerial work, e.g. photography, crop spraying, banner towing, instructing.
BUT be warned EASA Flight Crew Licensing and Medical is looming nearer and there are no guarantees that deviations will continue. When the relevant EASA regulations eventually become EU law and regulated by EASA such privileges may cease to be.
Apparently, the UK CAA is the only JAA member state that permits deviations so I do wonder whether the voice of one country will carry sufficient weight in the steering groups.
I seriously hope it doesn't happen but let's face facts. Regulators that dream up EU legislation that governs the shape of bananas is hardly likely to reach a rational decision in favour of CVD pilots.
But let's wait and see and hope. Keep fingers crossed

shgsaint

Hi Dogsbody,

I Think it is still possible to gain a CPL and instructors rating with CVD and with the daytime only restriction. Of course the instructor rating is the only thing you're gonna want to get as theres no point in having a CPL and expecting airlines to take interest in you as it won't happen. You'll need the ATPl anyway. On the other hand I think you can only get a CPL if you pass the class 1 medical. Correct me as necessary.

However you need to ask yourself will it be worth going through the process and monetary issues just to get an instructors rating trying to get a job in an already highly competitive industry. Where flying schools would perhaps find it more economically sound to hire someone without any restrictions.

Sorry this is by no means a pop at you as i'm in exactly the same shoes you're in. In fact I should be off to Cardiff uni next week to look at some lanterns and get a professionals opinion on my colour vision.

Only then will I go to Gatwick to try and pass the lantern to get the class 1. I think this is my only hope of ever flying professsionally and as an income earning career. If I don't pass the class 1 then i'll accept the fact that i'll only ever fly in a recreational sense. Untill gene therapy advances somewhat anyway.

I stand to be corrected on the 'getting a CPL' even though you're colour blind issue though. I think you can in practice so long as you pass the class 1. If you can get the class 1 then there shouldn't be anything stopping you going further anyway.

Hope my opinions aren't taken badly.

EDIT>> 2close beat me to it and his advice is much better than mine.

2close

shgsaint,

When you go to Cardiff make sure you are only tested with the Ishihara plates and the Beynes and Holmes-Wright Lantern Tests. These are the only tests used at Gatwick.

Also, ensure they test you in accordance with JAR protocols and if possible that you are tested at the correct distances and reflected in a mirror. It may sound daft but that is how you will be tested at Gatwick so as much replication as possible of the CAA tests as you can possibly manage will mean that you are not filled with false hope.

If you can, print a Class 1 extended eye examination form off the CAA web-site and take this with you. Get them to complete it and take it to Gatwick with you but ask them to specify that the tests were completed in accordance with JARs. Can't say it'll make any difference but nothing ventured nothing gained.

HTH

2close

shgsaint

Cheers 2close,

I'm expecting the Ishihara plates as they're the standard for ascertaining CVD. I'm crap at them so those tests won't last long.

Heres what Cardiff sent me in a previous email:

"Most of the tests we do are the Ishihara test , Farnsworth D15 test and City colour vision tests although we do have several other tests available. We do however only possess one lantern test that still works, which is the Archer Elliott lantern. Lantern tests were developed for specific occupations and therefore different workers were tested with the appropriate lantern. Some of these presented several coloured lights simultaneously either horizontally or vertically and some were just single presentations of one coloured light. The Archer Elliott that we have is single presentations of one coloured light, which is suppose to be the easiest to pass.

I'm not sure what the standard required by the CAA is these days, but you will need to know the specific test required for us to help you.
Also, unfortunately many lanterns are not commercially available and so we cannot obtain them if they are required. Lantern tests are pretty ancient but unfortunately many of these authorities will not update there standards to fall in line with more modern or accessible colour vision tests".

From this i'm guessing that they don't have, or the their holmes-wright lantern isn't working. I'll try and rumage around the CAA website to get the appropriate eye test forms so they know what is required.

Even if I don't see the Holmes Wright i'll still like to see what a real life lantern looks like in real life even if it is an inaccurate representation of the one in Gatwick. Just to get a professionals point of view will be enlightening. Just hope I come away happy instead of being told that i'm as colour blind as a dog!

Cheers for the advice though.

shgsaint

Booked in to see Cardiff next Tuesday.

Looks unlikely that i'll see the Holmes-Wright or Beynes lantern but I should see something. I'll take the required CAA correspondence and see what they say.

Wish me luck. (not that it matters too much!)

gijoe

You need to pass one of the tests accceptable for the CAA during further investigation into colour perception.They
Holmes-Wright
Beynes
or Spectrolux
Any others simply won't do 'cos the JAA says so.
City Uni are devloping a test called the CVT and there is a link to it on this board somewhere...but that is not accepted as a pukka test yet althought it produces far more quantifiable results in an understandable format.
Good luck!

shgsaint

Cheers Gijoe,

I understand the part on the lanterns. To me I just want to see what any lantern looks like. Regardless of whether JAA approve it or not. My motives for going to Cardiff aren't to see if they can say whether i'd pass the CAA medical. On the contary if they don't have the equipment then I don't expect them to know. However they will be able to determine how bad my vision is. Which is why i'm off to see them. I saw the City link and read through it. It's quite interesting.

I did the test as well where there is a square with another square inside it that changes colour and goes from one corner to the other. I did with my mum and I only lost it for about 1 second at one point and about 3-4 seconds at another point. My mum didn't think I was that bad. Although she's hardly in a well qualified position to give me a class 1.

Still it should be interesting.

Cheers though.

shgsaint

Update on my visit to Cardiff

My appointment was interesting as I imagined. It only lasted about 30 minutes and I did two tests. One was a standard test to see how good my colour perception was and the other was a test on the Giles-Archers lantern. I didn't do any Ishihara tests which surprised me but I did tell the optician that I was crap at them and only get past the first few anyway. I can't imagine it would of told her much apart from i'm colourblind which is already known.

The first test involved lining up a number of disks with colour inserts in a row to determine how good my colour discrimination was. The disks were a bit bigger than a 2 pence piece. There were 15 disks in total. The colours were pastel colours and very soft. They looked like purple, green, reds, and oches (orangey browny) colours. Of course this is what they looked like to me and may not be the actual colours used. It was assesed by comparing them to their correct positions. Their correct positions were on the circumference of a circle and it went around the circle in a numerical order. Think of it like a clock just with 15 numbers.

Then the optician simply joined the numbers up in the order that I had put the colours. The numbers are on the bottom of the disks so you can't cheat. My first attempt was the best attempt. I did go from one end of the spectrum to the other within the first two disks but then it went ok. There were a few mixed up but generally I got the order correct, just back to front. Like I said I did get a few mixed up. Maybe 5 or 6 out of the 15. And they were out of order by perhaps a few places. My second attempt wasn't any better. The fact that I was told I went backwards maybe influenced me. I tried to compensate and reverse my first attempt but it just made it harder and my results were worse. If it was perfect then the lines would join up all the numbers to make a perfect circle.

The Giles-Archer lantern was the next test. I think this is a Lantern used by railway signal men and the railway industry. I think there were about 6 six colours in total. 2 green colours, 2 red colours, a yellow and white.
The 2 reds were pretty easy for me to spot and I hardly had any difficulties. There didn't look to be any difference between them. The two greens were also not hard however I knew what to look for.

The first green I saw took me a few seconds. It was very similar to a bluey greeny light and to some may of looked more blue than green. It was also very bright and could of been confused as White. However it resembled exactly a right wing tip navigation light and I said. "It looks green but a bluey green". Thats correct she said, it is a bluey green. I suppose it was a turquiose colour. It wasn't much different to a traffic light green. The second green was much darker and simply looked like a grass green colour. Again I didn't have too much trouble with that one.

The yellow and white were no problems what so ever.

Than lantern was the standard 6 meters aways and the appature was set to a medium setting. Plus only one light was shown at a time.

So I passed the lantern test with no faults and was told my green discrimination is what I struggle on. My red discrimination wasn't too bad and this apparently is good news. Apparently people with red difficulties have many more problems than people with green difficulties.

Now i'm pretty happy with the assesment but I understand that this by no means guarantees a class 1 medical. To start with the Holmes-Wright shows two colours at a time and I can imagine the appature will be set to its smallest. Because the CAA are ards. However I always was under the impression that it will be the dirty white and turquiose green that I will struggle on when I go to Gatwick. Now I feel slightly more confident that I will be able to see the difference and more importantly pass. I'm not going to hold my breath but it's worthwhile doing this sort of colour vision assesment to boost your confidence. Of course this is also dependant upon the serverity of your colour vision.

Still it is worth a go and I reccommend anyone that wants to get a class 1 to have a go. It only cost me £20 too.

Now wheres that 300 odd quid I need for the Gatwick medical.

Hope my posts helps to the discussion.

EDITED>> due to wrong name of lantern. Think it was the Giles Archer lantern I was tested on not the Archer Elliott. If that one even exists.

Hawk

shgsaint...thanks for the update. You sound a bit more confident. Fingers crossed for Gatwick next.
cheers
H.

shgsaint

Cheers Hawk,

Yeah my confidence has grown slightly. I think confidence contributes to colour vision to a degree. Of course, untill I actually get my arse down to Gatwick I can't say if the Holmes-Wright will be as easy which I highly doubt. Still it was worth going today and i'm sure i'll have a bit of money saved soon to pay for the Gatwick medical.

Knowing my luck i'll pass on the eyesight tests and Lantern and fail for being unfit generally.

Cheers mate.