unfazed

It means that as the rules stand at the moment I cannot fly paying passengers on a commercial flight from A to B under an AOC (I can however fly trial lessons from A to B within a certain range), I can gain an ATPL license but I won't be able to put it to practical use.

Summary: Can achieve ATPL status but cannot fly paying passengers ? cannot cross international boundaries on commercial operation with no passengers and cannot use non UK aircraft (e.g. French or other JAR registration), cannot teach UK ppl syllabus anywhere but in the UK unless I ask permission from the state in question (despite being an FAA licensed PPL with an FAA Class 1 medical) - AND ALL BECAUSE THE CAA THINK THAT I AM UNSAFE DURING SUNDOWN TO SUNRISE - If anybody can make a logical link between the first letter on an aircraft registration, the skill needed to fly from one territory to another and the ability to see colours at night go for it !

Localiser

For anyone interested, I've recently seen a virtually new Ishihara colour test book for sale on eBay! Not sure what it'll go for but I've seen it for sale on Amazon for £120!

Could be useful, if you know what I mean

Blinkz

They use different editions of the plates, but its also a stupid thing to do. If you can't honest pass the tests then you shouldn't be flying.

Its just as bad about lying about any other medical problem. If you get found out then it will mean you lose your licence and any chance of having a career.

unfazed

"If you can't honest pass the tests then you shouldn't be flying"

Now thats what I call a blanket statement Blinkz !

I agree with your sentiment that cheating on the tests is not the right thing to do but there are many colour blind pilots flying around the world quite happily without any problems ! Just ask the FAA how many pilots hold waivers for the condition, same pilots fly into and out of major UK airports whilst UK pilots are not given the same opportunities

You probably think that this is dangerous - well think about this fact 10% of the male population suffers from colour "blindness" - So how come there aren't lots of crashes because people didn't see a red amber or green traffic light !, how come the DOT doesn't restrict people to day time driving only ?

Answer = Because it is Bull£$%it !!!!!

Katamarino

I failed one out of about 20 of the plates in the UK, and am being referred to the lantern test at Gatwick. The doctor said he's never known anyone so borderline to fail the lantern test, so there's hope I guess! If I pass the lantern test there will I be able to get an unrestricted medical certificate?

20driver

Does anyone know where you can take the lantern test in the US? All my inquires have lead to a dead end.
Thanks

Jabout

Flew a while ago, couldn't pass all the plates and doctors would use the Giles Archer Lantern and such like.

With old lanterns, greens look very clean (almost white) and whites dirty (almost beige); if I kept this in mind (and remained calm) I could pass no problem, obtained both class III & class II medicals.

Reckon I'm technically weak on green and white, tho' watching tennis/cricket matches or green & white lights is not a problem at all in real life.

Like to start flying again; but if I go to Gatwick for a Beynes and fail have I closed the door on myself or should I explore some other avenue first?

Such as going off to Germany/Europe/Australia?

papazulu

Hello everybody.

Anyone out there with troubles n the bloody japanese tables? Can't get those numbers at all!!! However I have been tested with the lanter both in USA (tower handlight, very easygoing...) and in Italy. Italian Ist class has been reconized as JAA compliant but I would get rid of any doubt and take it in UK. How far do they strech you with eye's exams? Everything is spotless, so far and I renewed my Ist for the fourth time last january.

Blue skies everybody

PZ

2close

You are right, PZ, Italy has been recommended for mutual recognition by JAA under JAR-FCL 3 (Medical).

As I understand it, the CAA should accept and issue a UK JAA Class 1 on the strength of your Italian JAA Class 1 without further testing.

The CAA eye exam is very thorough and as far as colour vision goes you get three bites of the apple.

1. Ishihara plates, which as you state, you cannot do

2. Beynes Lantern Test

Single coloured light - one at a time - white, green, red, amber, blue. Viewed in a mirror (Total reflected distance approx. 5-6 metres) in a darkened room with a lamp illuminating a patch of wall alongside the mirror. No errors permitted.

3. Holmes-Wright Type A Lantern Test

Pairs of lights - various combinations of white, red and green.
Lit room and again in same mirror. If one error is made (Possibly two) the test can be retaken in a darkened room after a period of light adaptation. No errors permitted in darkened room.

Obviously if you fail all three, you wil get a deviation issued to your CAA issued Cl.1 restricting you to daytime flight only (IFR is permitted) and no public transport, i.e. passenger carrying, flights.

If you have an unrestricted JAA Cl.1 from a mutually recognised state which you can exchange for a CAA issued JAA Cl.1 without further testing, why muddy the waters and take the risk? Just do the straight swap.

Hope this helps,

2close

Rick_M

20driver said: Does anyone know where you can take the lantern test in the US? All my inquires have lead to a dead end.
Thanks
------------------------------------------

*Best question in this whole thread, and believe me, I read the whole thing.

**I'm going through the same thing, and I'm quite fearful because of the lack of facilities in America for falant, and so forth. That and I really don't want to be left on with with SODA as the last option.

***Personally I've bought this first.
http://www.guldenophthalmics.com/ccp...+&cat=&catstr=
I just want to know what I'm getting in to. When I self-test, I usually get 2-3 wrong...and ocassionally one. So the fear of not knowing multiple locations (for this test) is in me as I know in you.

****Then I looked at agencies e.g
http://www.aviationmedicine.com/whatwedo.htm
http://www.leftseat.com/falant.htm
They both offer you locations, but the latter only w/service. I asked the first one for the locations, and got three more additional locations than I previously held. note: they offer services in getting the paperwork done. While it can be done by one self, I might personally be lazy and use the first one (link), once I pass. 400 isn't that bad for a lifetime of flight.

*****Here are the locations that I have accumulated. Note: I haven't verified all of them, ...consider the top ones the most dependable. Please email me if you find any further locations for this test or any other (at [email protected])

Thanks, and I wish all of you the best

; )

1) Robert L. Yolton, PhD, OD

Pacific University College of Optometry
2043 College Way
Forest Grove, Oregon 97116

(503) 357-6151 Farnsworth (FALANT)

2) Dr. Michael Crognale, PhD

Color Vision Assessment Clinic FALANT, Dvorine 2nd ed, Ishirara 38 plate
University of Nevada – Reno

775-784-6828 x 2030 or 2022

3) Pacific Medical Center

206-505-1100
1101 Madison St. 7th floor
Seattle, WA 98104 FARNSWORTH LANTERN

No appt required, No Fee Visit 0900-1130 or 1300-1500

4)William Moracco
(302) 598-3698
Flightsight.com
East Coast----Highly reccomended by aviationmedicine.com, and reccomend the next one on the west coast.

5)Wayne Verdon
510-643-0863
[email protected]
I haven't verified him, but this likely will be the person I meet with first.

6)University Optometric Center
33 West 42nd Street
at Bryant Park
New York, NY 10036
212 780-4950
[email protected]
http://www.sunyopt.edu/uoc/color_vision.shtml
Should have test...based on above link.

7)University of Texas Medical Branch
Aviation Medicine Center
Not much info...solely based on this:
http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/aam-400a/F...02/Letters.htm

8)NASA-JSC in Texas
Info from seven.

9)Richard Hackman (considered contact) 792-5568 x69
Naval Air Station, Pensacola, FL
He's documented cases; reccomends
contacting military bases...last resort
other than SODA. note: not quite sure he performs the test, but I'm sure he knows where to go.

papazulu

Well, hope this help...

I took my SODA at KVNY's FSDO with the FAA folks. I did it in daytime both in direct light and shadow conditions. Beware! White light shoot, we seen in the shadow looks a pale yellow. I said so and the FAA officer agreed, but it was spine-chilling...! So make sure that all you see is either white, green or red. nothing else! If you fail you can take it at night and after that...look for a FO job as the top of your job options!

By the way: I contacted dr. William Monaco. I seems very kind and it could be a safer option.

Best luck

PZ

2close

I know an Optometrist in the UK with a Farnsworth Lantern who can do FAA colour vision tests.

If anybody wants his details please contact me by PM and I will pass them on.

Best Regards,

2close

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Hi all!! This is my first post, so I hope to write an interesting issue here (I am going to share my story, which might also help others).

I am 37 years old. I have an FAA CPL/IR/ME and more than 750 hours (500 hours flying F27 in South America). I decided to stop flying around 10 years ago because my family had to come back to europe from S.A. Staying there alone (third world country) for a lifetime was nonsense and dangerous (in europe I am not able to fly as I will explain later and I have no green card for USA). Tough life decisions!!

I am a mild color vision defficient (deuteroanomaly), I had no problem with the FAA back into 1990 when I first started flying (passed Farnsworth lantern as stated by the FAA, no restrictions). The thing is that when I finished my FAA CPL I came back to my country (now one of europe) and did not pass my initial because I do not pass the Beyne´s Lantern color vision test. .. That is when I decided to go to South America with my parents (which were living there at that moment) and ended up flying F27, but I was already shot allmost to death in europe (not yet JAR-FCL).

Well, after 10 years and now with JAR-FCL into effect I have decided to fight back. Right now I am trying to get my medical in other european country, trying to pass the initial medical with other approved lantern.

If you pass the medical in one JAA state, will it be valid and accepted by others JAA members? even when denied by one JAA state?

The reason for my post is to search for good advice, for help, and to advice others with these color vision defficiecy stuff.

Be careful with the medicals from other countries, they are not standard and what might be good for one may not be good for the other.

Colour standards are b......t, I have been in the cockpit with friends that are flying A320 glass cockpit, looking at the VASI, tower lights, etc.. and I have no problem with that.. What they say about it? Laughs!!

I recognize that I have deuteroanomaly, but we, "mild color vision defficients" are not blind people and we do not see in black and white.

Doe´s anybody knows any similar cases?
Am I too old to fight back?
Any good suggestions?
Any european country easy on color vision tests?

Sorry for my english and for the long story but I still have hopes and want to give it a try (I am not totaly happy with my actual job), some things are not fair and this is one of them. I want to fly!!

Thanks..

Johe02

I know a chap in the UK with similar condition, not sure of the details but he 'obtained' coloured contact lenses (one red one blue - I think??) and was able then to pass one of the Lantern tests ( can't remember which one) that he previously failed.

He then argued with the CAA that if he wore the contacts and carried a spare pair of similar coloured glasses (as for short-sighted/longsighted pilots) then he would be fit for a Class 1

They finally agreed. . and I believe he is the only colour-blind commercial pilot in the CAA/JAR

Worth a try. .?

FAA fit / JAR unfit

I´ve heard something about that case.. but, regulations do not accept colored lenses to correct color vision, I think..
How that person convinced CAA? Did he get Class 1, no restrictions? Do you know a little bit more about it?

Thanks a lot!!

Blinkz

I'm not sure that story is true. The CAA would not accept someone who has to wear different colour lenses. The whole problem with them is that they affect your vision in other ways. Also its rubbish that hes the only colour-blind pilot, theres loads of us, we just have to pass the lantern test and so be classed as 'colour-safe' i.e colourblind but still able to recognise the colours that are needed to perform airmens duties etc.

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Hi blinkz..

I think the same.. but if you read my story (posted 1st july) you´ll see that I am already an FAA CPL w/ some experience and maybe that person is in the same situation or maybe better, FAA ATPL for example.. I don´t know, it´s just an opinion.. maybe he has like me, an FAA 1st class and CPL but could not pass the JAA lanterns..

Thanks

Johe02

Don't worry it's true, I did my PPL(H) with him in '93 and could name him but I don't think it's appropriate. .

Splitting hairs a bit on the, what-qualifies-as-colour-blind-front but. . whatever!

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Hi Johe2..
Was he already a pilot?..
He didn´t pass the lantern and later he did with the colored lenses.. Was it pre-advicing the CAA?
Can you give more info about it? Was it a verbal agreement with the CAA?

This is very important for me as I am stuck with my FAA licence, not being able to pass the JAA 1st class due to my colour vision problem..

Any info will help..

Thanks

Johe02

Pilot? as in PPL(H). .

Cant really give you anymore details without consulting him but I suggest you find yourself a friendly optician and experiment with coloured glasses and the lantern test you failed.

When you know you can pass it. . take it from there.

Good luck