Fear of flying in a good friend, how can I help?
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fear of flying in a good friend, how can I help?
Hello,
I am writing (genuinely) on the behalf of a very close friend who I would like to help.
This friend of mine has achieved a PPL and was some way toward a commercial licence but due to a very traumatic personal experience outside of aviation was unable to finish.
During this training my friend began to experience what they described as a growing and quite intense fear whilst in the air. It wasn’t a panic attack as such but an overriding fear and an urge to get on the ground as quickly as possible. It wasn’t a fear that the aircraft was unsafe or of an engine failure but in them selves.
They find it hard to describe so my apologies in trying to tell you about this second hand.
I have flown with this friend as a passenger a number of times and even straight after the PPL I was so impressed with their flying, confidence and RT. You could have mistaken them for a -professional pilot on the RT and it is so frustrating for me to see them on the ground with this fear. I have no doubt in my mind that my friend is and could be an excellent pilot.
I am about to embark on my ATPL and would love for them to be able to join me. They would to were it not for this fear of ‘what if’. I am going to be taking them flying next week to see how they feel but that won’t solve this problem. I wonder if you can?
What I would like to ask of you in this forum is if you have seen or dealt with any cases such as this and if so what I may be able to do to help my friend. Are there any classes or specific people who may be able to coach them?
It’s such a waste of potential.
All help is very gratefully received.
Thank you for your time,
Your sincerely
On behalf
I am writing (genuinely) on the behalf of a very close friend who I would like to help.
This friend of mine has achieved a PPL and was some way toward a commercial licence but due to a very traumatic personal experience outside of aviation was unable to finish.
During this training my friend began to experience what they described as a growing and quite intense fear whilst in the air. It wasn’t a panic attack as such but an overriding fear and an urge to get on the ground as quickly as possible. It wasn’t a fear that the aircraft was unsafe or of an engine failure but in them selves.
They find it hard to describe so my apologies in trying to tell you about this second hand.
I have flown with this friend as a passenger a number of times and even straight after the PPL I was so impressed with their flying, confidence and RT. You could have mistaken them for a -professional pilot on the RT and it is so frustrating for me to see them on the ground with this fear. I have no doubt in my mind that my friend is and could be an excellent pilot.
I am about to embark on my ATPL and would love for them to be able to join me. They would to were it not for this fear of ‘what if’. I am going to be taking them flying next week to see how they feel but that won’t solve this problem. I wonder if you can?
What I would like to ask of you in this forum is if you have seen or dealt with any cases such as this and if so what I may be able to do to help my friend. Are there any classes or specific people who may be able to coach them?
It’s such a waste of potential.
All help is very gratefully received.
Thank you for your time,
Your sincerely
On behalf
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that some airlines are holding courses for those afraid of flying. It's often pilots that hold those courses so it's an excellent opportunity to make some connections if you as a pilot participate in a course like that. It also looks good on your CV.
If you are serious (it's 1st of May after all) I'm sorry to be sarcastic but I really wouldn't feel comfortable as a passenger with your friend as the pilot. If the pilot is stressed and feel uncomfortable when the sun is shining what about a real emergency?
If you are serious (it's 1st of May after all) I'm sorry to be sarcastic but I really wouldn't feel comfortable as a passenger with your friend as the pilot. If the pilot is stressed and feel uncomfortable when the sun is shining what about a real emergency?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Emerald City of Oz
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi On Behalf,
You didn't say what the traumatic event was that prevented them from finishing or whether it was likely to be a factor in the fear of flying? I'm guessing so.
Your friend may just need some time to "rebalance" away from aviation. If this is the case, try not to push them, if they really love flying they'll come back to it of their own accord.
If they want to get back in sooner, although this sounds deep end I would recommend a course of learning to recover from unusual attitides or aerobatics. Learning to recover from unusual attitudes gives you the confidence that you can handle emergency situations without "losing it". They will need to find a very good instructor and explain the problem to them, and they will also have to accept that there will be good days and bad days.
Good luck
You didn't say what the traumatic event was that prevented them from finishing or whether it was likely to be a factor in the fear of flying? I'm guessing so.
Your friend may just need some time to "rebalance" away from aviation. If this is the case, try not to push them, if they really love flying they'll come back to it of their own accord.
If they want to get back in sooner, although this sounds deep end I would recommend a course of learning to recover from unusual attitides or aerobatics. Learning to recover from unusual attitudes gives you the confidence that you can handle emergency situations without "losing it". They will need to find a very good instructor and explain the problem to them, and they will also have to accept that there will be good days and bad days.
Good luck
PPRuNe's Paramedic
Join Date: May 2001
Location: tropical north
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Depending on the circumstances of the event, time lapse since the event and the persons subsequent feelings toward themselves after the event, it is possible that anything ranging from outright grief to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder / Syndrome could have something to do with your friends apparent behaviour.
Grief is a time process whereby a person will go through different recognisable phases. An interruption to any of these phases can result in the lengthening of the grieving period. A sudden change in lifestyle, a traumatic event, separation, or the ending of something like a job a person just loves doing may trigger a grief response. It depends alot on the person.
PTSD can be the result of a single event or a series of events, that may have been beyond the persons ability to deal with them in a percieved normal fashion. It is usually quite manageable depending on severity, the cause and the stability of the patient themselves. It is very possible to return to normality but it takes time. Occasionally lots of it, especially around event anniversary times.
Without getting into details, I went from not being able to remember very basic stuff like starting a car to full recovery after a particularly nasty event. I had help along the way from a recommended professional psycologist, my family and later when I could face them again, my friends. The first six months were hell, as alot of life then was purely reactive, not proactive and I wasnt acting my logical self, even though I could reason logically.... then Id kick myself for being over reactive, and silly. (like the complusive checking door locks, windows and curtains repeatedly even though I knew everything was okay). This behaviour resulted in severe self doubting about my ability to conduct life in a normal fashion. That is going to work happy, flying, interacting comfortably, coming home, socialising etc.
It is not a death knoll on a career but can stretch the timing out a bit.
The symptoms as you describe them, (flying had nothing to do with his loss of confidence in machinery), its more possibly a feeling of being not totally in control after a nasty time resulting in triggering the grief process or at worst, PTSD.
Your willingness to help is primarily a supportive role, in the fact that I wonder if his self confidence appears to have been shattered. Life goes on as normal around the person, and feeling alone or different from others, even amonst close friends can be an issue. Tiredness resulting from lack of sleep, mood swings and so on. Support and normality, and slow bites back into life are the usual tact.
Grief is a time process whereby a person will go through different recognisable phases. An interruption to any of these phases can result in the lengthening of the grieving period. A sudden change in lifestyle, a traumatic event, separation, or the ending of something like a job a person just loves doing may trigger a grief response. It depends alot on the person.
PTSD can be the result of a single event or a series of events, that may have been beyond the persons ability to deal with them in a percieved normal fashion. It is usually quite manageable depending on severity, the cause and the stability of the patient themselves. It is very possible to return to normality but it takes time. Occasionally lots of it, especially around event anniversary times.
Without getting into details, I went from not being able to remember very basic stuff like starting a car to full recovery after a particularly nasty event. I had help along the way from a recommended professional psycologist, my family and later when I could face them again, my friends. The first six months were hell, as alot of life then was purely reactive, not proactive and I wasnt acting my logical self, even though I could reason logically.... then Id kick myself for being over reactive, and silly. (like the complusive checking door locks, windows and curtains repeatedly even though I knew everything was okay). This behaviour resulted in severe self doubting about my ability to conduct life in a normal fashion. That is going to work happy, flying, interacting comfortably, coming home, socialising etc.
It is not a death knoll on a career but can stretch the timing out a bit.
The symptoms as you describe them, (flying had nothing to do with his loss of confidence in machinery), its more possibly a feeling of being not totally in control after a nasty time resulting in triggering the grief process or at worst, PTSD.
Your willingness to help is primarily a supportive role, in the fact that I wonder if his self confidence appears to have been shattered. Life goes on as normal around the person, and feeling alone or different from others, even amonst close friends can be an issue. Tiredness resulting from lack of sleep, mood swings and so on. Support and normality, and slow bites back into life are the usual tact.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The sort of courses the airlines run may well not help here. I shadowed one recently and although I highly recommend it to anyone outside flying, it is probably not the sort of thing for your friend.
Basically the day starts with an explanation of how and aircraft flies and what the noises are. It also covers banking in a turn and how the wings are help on and stuff like that. Then later a psychologist explains the response of the mind and body to fear and how to cope with it. Finally they take you on a flight with a running commentary and lots of nice cabin crew.
There are other courses which let people sit in a simulator and see emergency procedures and let them have a go.
There is obviously more to the course than I can describe in a few lines, but the course will probably cover things your friend is well aware of. Also, it is tailored towards large aircraft. If you want some information, then post here and I will send you my email address by PM (don't usually use PM's, so no point sending me one).
Good luck.
Basically the day starts with an explanation of how and aircraft flies and what the noises are. It also covers banking in a turn and how the wings are help on and stuff like that. Then later a psychologist explains the response of the mind and body to fear and how to cope with it. Finally they take you on a flight with a running commentary and lots of nice cabin crew.
There are other courses which let people sit in a simulator and see emergency procedures and let them have a go.
There is obviously more to the course than I can describe in a few lines, but the course will probably cover things your friend is well aware of. Also, it is tailored towards large aircraft. If you want some information, then post here and I will send you my email address by PM (don't usually use PM's, so no point sending me one).
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin1234, Victor Bravo, Northern Chique and Jetstream Rider
Thank you all very much for your replies.
My apologies for not having replied sooner I have been very busy at work.
I have thought about everything you have said and I can see how some of what happened may be connected. Northern Chique your situation sounds very similar but my friend has not suffered to any degree the same as yourself. I would like to say well done for making such a success out of a situation I cannot begin to imagine, your story is one of encouragement and an inspiration.
I didn’t want to post exactly what happened to my friend so as to withhold there identity. It was a situation that was out of their hands and the timing and location couldn’t have been worse. The pressure to succeed whilst those around you are pushing themselves and making the progress you want so badly must have confounded the problem. I know they have read your posts so far and are extremely grateful that you have all taken the time to post and give your experiences and thoughts.
I had thought about helping my friend find a professional psychologist, perhaps it needs to be investigated in this manner and the problem broken down. I really don’t know about this but Northern certainly your experience and progress are extremely uplifting.
Do you know how I/we my friend and I could find a psychologist? Is it just a case of looking one up or are there certain fields of expertise that we should look into for this type of problem?
I’ll let them know and make in roads. Thanks again for all your time and I wish you all the best in the future.
Kind regards,
On behalf
Thank you all very much for your replies.
My apologies for not having replied sooner I have been very busy at work.
I have thought about everything you have said and I can see how some of what happened may be connected. Northern Chique your situation sounds very similar but my friend has not suffered to any degree the same as yourself. I would like to say well done for making such a success out of a situation I cannot begin to imagine, your story is one of encouragement and an inspiration.
I didn’t want to post exactly what happened to my friend so as to withhold there identity. It was a situation that was out of their hands and the timing and location couldn’t have been worse. The pressure to succeed whilst those around you are pushing themselves and making the progress you want so badly must have confounded the problem. I know they have read your posts so far and are extremely grateful that you have all taken the time to post and give your experiences and thoughts.
I had thought about helping my friend find a professional psychologist, perhaps it needs to be investigated in this manner and the problem broken down. I really don’t know about this but Northern certainly your experience and progress are extremely uplifting.
Do you know how I/we my friend and I could find a psychologist? Is it just a case of looking one up or are there certain fields of expertise that we should look into for this type of problem?
I’ll let them know and make in roads. Thanks again for all your time and I wish you all the best in the future.
Kind regards,
On behalf
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try this book, if you can get it. I don't know if it's still in print. My copy is 1983.
Flying Without Fear.
tessa Duckworth and David Miller.
Sheldon Press, London.
ISBN 0 85969 401 1.
I've used it for patients and friends - seems to work.
Flying Without Fear.
tessa Duckworth and David Miller.
Sheldon Press, London.
ISBN 0 85969 401 1.
I've used it for patients and friends - seems to work.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not at all uncommon, especially among pilots in their late twenties and early thirties, will even admit to suffered a twinge or two of it myself in that age bracket. Seen it countless times to varying degrees in airline trainees of mine. The worst case I saw was a captain friend on 'heavies' who abandoned his career because of it, became so sick of himself in his self imposed grounding that he went back to airline ops and became chief pilot of a national carrier!
The one odd common thread in all cases was that the sufferers seemed to be of above average intelligence and flying ability.
Now the good part - In each and every case time was the healing factor, never less than a few months, and never more than 2 or 3 years. During a lengthy attachment which I had in training, the company's consulting psychologist referred a few deeply troubled souls to a hypno-therapist, this seemed to achieve good results.
Tell your friend to hang in there, do the responsible thing and stay on the ground if it really is all a bit too much for the moment, time is a great healer for this problem.
The one odd common thread in all cases was that the sufferers seemed to be of above average intelligence and flying ability.
Now the good part - In each and every case time was the healing factor, never less than a few months, and never more than 2 or 3 years. During a lengthy attachment which I had in training, the company's consulting psychologist referred a few deeply troubled souls to a hypno-therapist, this seemed to achieve good results.
Tell your friend to hang in there, do the responsible thing and stay on the ground if it really is all a bit too much for the moment, time is a great healer for this problem.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A relative of mine, late twenties, has developed a fear of flying. He always was a cautious person and settled for a 'safe' office job. He understands how aeroplanes fly, was often on the flight deck with me (pre 9/11!) and has read the safety statistics.
The last straw was packed in the back of a low cost 73, that may have been roughly handled and encountered a lot of turbulence on short finals followed by a rapid stop on a short runway. This left him in a state of collapse and he has not flown now for over two years. It is a severe handicap to his business mobility, holidays etc. Can anybody recommend a course? He's Cardiff, South Wales area.
The last straw was packed in the back of a low cost 73, that may have been roughly handled and encountered a lot of turbulence on short finals followed by a rapid stop on a short runway. This left him in a state of collapse and he has not flown now for over two years. It is a severe handicap to his business mobility, holidays etc. Can anybody recommend a course? He's Cardiff, South Wales area.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had it late in my CPL training, and it worried me SH!TLESS (more for what my Father would think....) He knew, and I pushed myself, and overcame it. I love flying MUCH TO MUCH to let something psychological overcome me.
I wasn't so much a fear of flying, it was an intangible feeling in the bottom of your gut - a "WTF" feeling, something I am having trouble to even describe!
The way I overcame it was to fly solo A LOT, and make myself THINK about FLYING THE GOD DAMNED AEROPLANE - not what some instructor was thinking. I just AVIATED, and left the rest of mundanity and trivilaity behind.
What REALLY made me shine was doing aerobatics. I did over 60 hours in a DH-82 Tiger Moth (hence nick name!) - I even passed my 100th hour in that Tiger! Not only did I learn aerobatics, but I learnt what a lot of younger pilots these days do NOT learn - recovery from UNUSUAL circumstances - inverted, genuine spinning, approaching Vne etc (you could fly the Tiger at Vne, because it was an AERODYNAMIC Vne, not structural - in otherwords, the airframe has so much parasite drag, that it cannot go any faster!
Learning aerobatics not only instilled much needed confidence back in me, but it was a wake up call that BY GOD I LOVE FLYING!!!!!!!!
Sorry to have wandered off topic somewhat here, but in my opinion, there are certain areas of training SADLY and SORELY ommitted from training these days.
I wasn't so much a fear of flying, it was an intangible feeling in the bottom of your gut - a "WTF" feeling, something I am having trouble to even describe!
The way I overcame it was to fly solo A LOT, and make myself THINK about FLYING THE GOD DAMNED AEROPLANE - not what some instructor was thinking. I just AVIATED, and left the rest of mundanity and trivilaity behind.
What REALLY made me shine was doing aerobatics. I did over 60 hours in a DH-82 Tiger Moth (hence nick name!) - I even passed my 100th hour in that Tiger! Not only did I learn aerobatics, but I learnt what a lot of younger pilots these days do NOT learn - recovery from UNUSUAL circumstances - inverted, genuine spinning, approaching Vne etc (you could fly the Tiger at Vne, because it was an AERODYNAMIC Vne, not structural - in otherwords, the airframe has so much parasite drag, that it cannot go any faster!
Learning aerobatics not only instilled much needed confidence back in me, but it was a wake up call that BY GOD I LOVE FLYING!!!!!!!!Sorry to have wandered off topic somewhat here, but in my opinion, there are certain areas of training SADLY and SORELY ommitted from training these days.
