Hear hear! The voice of reason in a sea of squabbling. Good luck to you Mike Hotel. I for one would be pleased to hear of your experiences, and I am sure many would be interested in recruitment tips from you.

:ooh:......er, thanks...I aim to be constructive and helpful...:)

I am somewhat bemused. Why the hostility towards our friend Beak?

Surely this is a thread seeking to openly and frankly discuss ALL available options to fund a FR Type Rating. Beak has merely suggested that the Bank of M n D is the favorite 'Piggy Bank' to be raided. I reckon he is probably right!

I generally disagree with Beaks conclusions but value his well crafted posts. I can see sound reason in all his arguments and, taken individually, his points are wholly valid.

These threads are greatly enhanced by his participation and long may it be the case. I am not interested in ill informed, poorly articulated, one sided, debates.

Yes; I would openly encourage all FATPL's to join FR if the chance prevails but I recognise my position still requires scrutiny. More when we are discussing huge sums of money and absolutely no guarantees. I have never understood why FR have been unable to provide a 'fix' of days to BRK employees. This 'Fix' would remove much of the financial ambiguity and possibly make a bank loan easier to secure.

PS. Had to come up and 'Prattle'; my wife's watching that dreadful chap Gok Wan; Painful tv!:{

BN

BN as always, thank you.

Though I may not give you the answer as to how to 'get the money' what I have tried to do is tell you how NOT to get the money - in my opinion. Sure if your parents are very wealthy or they wish to give you your inheritance early then it is their choice how they spend their money - and how nice that they would choose to spend it on your future. I do however strongly disagree, disapprove and deplore people who secure £145Ks (taking into account the term) worth of debt against their parents £500K home. My parents too offered many times to secure the debt. They said it with a loving but worried look on their faces and sound to their voices. They seemed resigned to it. Their wasn't a chance I'd have done it to them though - and that was when aviation was at it's peak. I just don't understand it. My hope is that my words may have a positive effect on just one person and be the straw that makes them say no to the altruistic but dangerous offer from their parents. It isn't their choice, I don't know a parent that wouldn't make the offer. It is your choice to say no. Why can't you work for a year, save £15K and cut £25K off the risk in the loan? Boll:mad:ks to the fact you maybe earning 200000 Euros a year or however much you start on at Ryanair that enables you to pay back the TR loan in 5 months. Nothing worth it is ever easy and taking the loan on your parents home is a piece of piss......for you.


I have just seen your post too DB, thanks also pal.

Well prepare to be further saddened and frustrated I'm afraid. I'm barring nobody for saying that the RYR self sponsored type rating, followed by joining Brookfield after your work experience, is a rubbish deal which is the lead husky in the sleigh ride to **** creek which our profession is currently engaged upon.

The tax scam is coming to light. The new aircraft arrivals are unstoppable. The Brookfield contract is punitive. You're paying a lot of money to put yourself between a rock and Michael O Leary...


WWW

Seeing as you seem unable to use the scroll function of your browser, this is the original post:

This is not a thread on the rights and wrong of securing £145K of funding for training. It is not a thread debating Ryanair. This is merely a thread about the practicalities of funding a Ryanair Type Rating costing £30K.

WWW: PPrune is a great source of information and by encouraging the degeneration of this particular thread into a slanging match you're preventing this from happening and thereby undermining the value of the website. There are plenty of other threads where TheBeak and plenty of others have had their opportunity to debate the pros and cons of joining Ryanair.

WWW, I think you've missed the point from the post asking certain threads to be removed. TheBeak has been offensive and quite rude to more than one member of the forum.

I very rarely read the forum any more, mainly because of people like TheBeak. I can't see why people need to slate the industry and the people in it so much. After all, we all did our ATPL for a reason, because we either love the flying or the lifestyle. To have people so bitter and twisted on here all the time is quite frankly annoying and unnecessary. I know a few other pilots who have left the forum as the views on here are more than often extreme and unhelpful.

And yes, I did insult TheBeak. He sparked such an emotion from reading his posts and insults towards Torque Tonight just to mention one. We all know there a fakes on here, but TT isn’t one of them, so no need for the vindictive, belittling and insulting comments.

Also having just worked out who TheBeak is, he quite frankly isn’t worth bothering with and no wonder he is unemployed.
As far as Ryan Air is concerned. If I had the money and I was unemployed I'd go the same route. It is a good way to get the hours and it pays well if you know how to play the system. I'd much rather be working for Ryan Air than working 9-5 or in a fast food restaurant, or even as cabin crew for that matter (nothing wrong with cabin crew, but I didn’t pay best part of £60k to work in the back and take the crap that they have to on a daily basis.)

One question for the TheBeak, you have a 737 Type rating? Do you have any Line training hours with that? If not, then that was a wasted type rating. It's no use to any airline if you haven't done your LRC and ALC.

And for the token gesture towards the thread topic, sorry I don’t know how to approach the banks, but I'm sure a thoroughly researched business plan wouldn't be a bad starting point.

Everyone knows what they are getting themselves into when they go to Ryan Air, so you pay your money you take your choice. However I know a few people that have made a very good career out of it and are very happy with the way they work. People could do a lot worse.

Just passing (not much happening in Bizjets, we're generally better behaved over there ;)) and spotted this thread.


Where does BN say he's amused by this? I can't find it. Post number?


But surely 'they' know because people tell them in places like this? Surely you're not advocating pro-Ryanair posts only be allowed? Pro-anything come to that. Within the bounds of reason I'm happy that the (we) moderators let these threads run the way they do.

I've been around PPRuNe a while and I'm constantly surprised by people who complain about censorship. "Free speech!" they cry. Yet when they get it we're castigated. We can't win.

Duck Rogers.

If you read the comment I made, it was made about abusive and personal comments about individuals, not about RYR.

So no, I don't want you to sensor anti RYR and allow only pro RYR, I'm just sick of the sick bitter and twisted people on here.

And in response to your comment about people find out about RYR on this forum. I disagree, I haven't read this forum for quite a few months and still hear the stories good and bad from friends and old course mates and other forums such as OAA.

I'm not sure what's happened to PPRUNE, but it certainly has gone down hill in the last 3 years. Diss-information seems to be the norm and slagging off any wannabe is a common scene.

I'm not sure if its a sign of the times, but PPRUNE is certainly worse off because of the "haters". Of course we need both sides of the story, but surely to tell the story you must have first experienced the event and not heard about it from your mates uncle who's boss told him a tale.

Dick,

I am genuinely saddened by my 'thumbs down' head-line. :=

I cannot see that 'Beak' has done anything but elucidate within the thread subject. He has set out an erodite, concise and reasoned arguement.

I disagree with 'Beak', but debate needs to be open, honest and lively to hold my interest. Why would anyone want to 'dilute' these important discussions? I certainly have not been offended, even though Beaks expressed views are not well aligned with my own.

I would understand ( read ), that you might have done some FR funding yourself for a child? I WOULD DO EXACTLY THE SAME.

Beak already answered the question = Mum and Dad!

My view = Until a 'Fix' of minimum days, (analogous with a private owner Biz Jet), is contracted this is likely to remain the preferred option.

BN

Good evening Duck,

Yes, we are better behaved in our Biz Jet world.

Perhaps 'Beak' would be sensible to review his future career path?

BN

Here is some advice;

Do what you think you have to, no-one is going to help you. Life is short.
If you can get mum and dad to help (pay) in any way then do so, you will only have a few chances to fly professionally and you must take your seldom opportunities where-ever they may be.

Don't linger on the words of the older generation with regards to declining conditions/punitive contracts etc because many are not in the position you are (myself included).

Get on with you life and do not dwell on the negative side of things, it will only drag you down.

Work hard and make you own luck.

For the record, my parents paid for my FATPL and I would do the same.

TheBeak, come on matey stop being unkind, it does no good what-so-ever, we all know the good and bad side to this particular subject. You come across as a whiney little bitch.

One of the points you made was about that. I read your post, decided the night wasn't long enough to take up every issue and chose one. I say again that people know because they read it here. Ok, some people. A lot of people. Granted PPRuNe isn't the only source in the aviation world but it's still a major one. Seen the numbers for this place?

The world would be a dull place if first hand knowledge were a pre-requisite for many things. If that became law and the Walts and theorists were driven out PPRuNe would become a ghost town overnight. Didn't you say that Ryanair are well known for their practices? That you and your friends know of them through other means? Well so do The Beak and others yet seemingly you want him and his ilk to be prevented from passing on what they've heard.

Censorship? Aye, but which way round?



<wanders back toward the leather upholstered, silk carpeted bizjet forum>

This discussion seems to have degenerated into something so utterly ridiculous it could almost send somesome insane. At first it starts with someone wanting to productively find out about the funding for a Ryanair TR (valid question), which was spolit by someone who we all know probably resembles not far off a social hand grenade, who has now all of a sudden become flavour of the week with a couple of moderators who are beginning a debate that Ryanair's reputaion is NOT in fact based on first hand experiences but instead by chinese whispers!! This thread's sending more than a few of you away with a one way ticket to the loony hospital, give it up. And to quote P-T...
"I'm not sure what's happened to PPRUNE, but it certainly has gone down hill in the last 3 years".
Got that right :ok:

P-T, you again, do not know who I am , so don't say things like that to add weight to your argument - we had this with Reluctant737 or whatever his/her name was. And no I absolutely did not buy a 737 TR and have no hours on it. I did not buy a 737 TR full stop, I can assure you. Can you not work that out?

If you don't like PPRUNE then don't add to it. It takes two to add to this debate - at least my posts have been on track and not about slating an individual that you don't know much about. You lot are very much responsible for the divergence of this thread.

I'd take bizjets in a heartbeat.

No worries, points taken I am defeated. I'm obvioulsy not intelligent for TheBeak and I am not worthy of even knowing you it seems.

No worries, I'll leave you to it. For the record, I totally agree with Eager Beaver.

On that note I'm of to SSH for the weekend on the wonderful Boeing 757.

X

Dick,

I believe that we are possibly 'lost' in translation.

I would understand that 'Beak' is trying to clarify that he did not purchase a 737 TR with a Line Hours Package.

Further, he is being clear that he did not purchase a 737 TR FULL STOP.

I would understand that, he was selected for a paid / bonded 737 TR with an airline, made it on line, and then sadly was laid off. Very frustrating!

I really cannot understand this animosity to 'Beak'. Unlike the many, his credability is not in question. It would appear that the ubiquitous truth about 'the bank of Mum n Dad' gets some 'noses out of joint'. I just can't understand why?

Had the situation been different, I would have been the first to cash 'Dads' cheque! ( Sadly in my case, it would have bounced! )

BN

Let’s get this straight. I am most certainly not against free speech and I’m perfectly open to debates on Ryanair. I have agreed that TheBeak’s views on Ryanair and, for example, WWW’s opinions about the state of the economy are worth listening to even though they don’t match my own opinions or experiences. Furthermore, even though some people have an abrasive, unkind or deliberately unhelpful attitude I wouldn’t disregard their right to be heard.

This is not about free speech; It’s all about time and place! On a thread started by a Wannabe asking about the virtues of joining Ryanair, let slip the dogs of war and let the debate rage because someone contemplating joining a controversial company ought to hear both sides of the argument, but where someone asks a clear cut, closed loop question, why do we have to see the whole thread become a 5 page argument between the Ryanair haters and those who have a different point of view?

I cling to my view that the Moderators are not doing their job in this instance. There’s nothing ‘moderate’ about their behaviour. Contrast the moderator’s action on this thread with the thread on Integrated v Modular which recently closed by Halfwayback.

There's nothing moderate about me changing paragraphs of yours pink but then this is a benign dictatorship so best just get over it.


WWW

To be fair, pink is my favourite colour right now. :ok:

I prefer this :}

I agree again with Mike Hotel.

WWW, having accepted that this is a benign (although this thread is somewhat viral) dictatorship, I guess that the least moderators are expected to do is to keep the focus of the original thread topic. For example, in the thread about the BA 777 crash at Heathrow, posters without technical knowledge and little therefore to add, had their posts removed, and quite right too; it kept the required focus to keep the thread relevant. It also made for highly interesting reading. Dictator you may be, open to criticism you are not, or at least that is how it is beginning to look here.

In this thread nobody is suggesting that Ryanair opinion be censored, merely that it be moved elsewhere more relevant to the original poster's topic. That is not here, because otherwise all Ryanair threads will simply dissolve into the same, off-topic slanging. I for one, and I suspect a good many otheres are bored with this.

My colour preference is red.

Anyone got any more answers to the original question?

to they guys saying they got a free type rating....
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently, and amazed if you are on same wages as those who did not get a free one!!
If you are on big money and free type rating then you are extremely lucky as name to me one place thats offering that package?!!?:ok:

And to beak i think the fact 99% of posters here think you views are wrong(and so strong) says alot, and implies your hiding something, possible fact your type rated on 737 and cant get into RYN.

BN understood correctly though I accept my post may have been misleading - it was early.

Possibly because the thread could have been used as a source of info by the press and PPRUNE could have been quoted as a source, as it has been in the past. To that end I'd imagine the moderators have a job to filter the 'opinions' and try and keep the discussion strictly objective so as to maintain the credibility of the site.

There is a difference with this thread though. Someone hasn't asked a strict, closed question. They have asked a number of questions, have appeared quite leading and open and so have attracted a number of opinions. There is no definate answer to this one, nor are there to the majority of the questions asked on this site. A discussion, which we started having on the topic, will give a mix of views which have been hopefully justified and thought out. It will give a balance and range to the asker. You can't get a more definate answer to such a broad question.

I maintain my views and will continue to justify them to anyone who touches on a topic I feel I can add dimension to.

The way the question concluded to me, with:


came across as the poster was uncomfortably resigned to the argument I have put across. I hope I have offered comfort to them that they are no less a person by not being able to afford the loan and that if it even remotely crossed their mind to secure the debt on their parents home, that it shouldn't be an option unless they are rich or expecting an early inheritance, for the right reasons and hopefully not the wrong ones.


Well it isn't a fact, it is a statistic that you have plucked out of thin air. And besides, 99% of all statistics are made up. And I haven't hidden anything. Would I fly for Ryanair if they would take a low experience 737 pilot without extorting me out of 33K for something I already have? Yes.

Be amazed then, I did.

Be amazed some more then, although it's impossible to make such a comparison because, er, they got theirs free too. I suppose we could look toward pilots who joined the company with type ratings but they get paid the same also.


Lucky? Well if you call standing by my principles and turning down jobs that wanted me to buy my way in then I suppose I am. Don't think the dictionary would define that as 'luck' though.

Ummmmm, no. I won't. Given the propensity for a large number of newly qualified pilots to back door their colleagues I'm extremely picky about who I recommend for interview. All of those I have recommended though know there's no such word as 'alot' ;)

Ryanair funding
 

ORDER ORDER!!!! CAN WE HAVE SOME ORDER!!

Anyone care to go back to the original topic here?

Can anyone give some advice or is willing to share from there own personal experience,from where did they actually manage to secure the funding please?

I believe there may be many interested candidates who are being excluded from applying, simply because they can't find a lender/financial institution that are willing to support this.

(This site is turning into some sort of an 'chat room' for immature,bitter and twisted folk and quite frankly it's not a pleasant place to visit at the moment)!

Let's go back to informed usefull and mature communication.

Anyone agree?

Thank you.:ok:

Jimmyjetplane.

Er, Flintstone, as you know, we're talking about Ryanair and the Airline industry, not Bizjets, which are a different kettle of fish.

The Airlines who do pay for their new recruits' type ratings are simply not recruiting at the moment and are unlikely to recommence in the next few years.

Nothing specific in irishpilot's post, he/she merely espoused the (flawed) opinion that nobody got a free rating.

Don't mind me though. Same income as an airline captain, fly about 10-12 days a month, six weeks (paid) holiday, per diems, get fed and watered, nice hotels, training and uniform paid, work with nice people, go to nice places, no 'self-employed' nonsense through dodgy accountants. Missed out didn't I? Damn, I feel so stupid :rolleyes:

Why is everyone so fixated on Ryanair and the airlines? Fine if you want to do the same old thing day in, day out and in the case of at least RYR be treated as a consumable but there really is better out there. I suppose you just need to wit and imagination to see it.

Jimmy Jet Plane, If you'd really like to know, an interest free loan from a friend. Does that answer your question?

Surprised and Amazed
 

I heard of a guy in our company who is starting his 5th (totally free with no salary reduction) type rating in as many years.

I'm in a pretty similar boat to Flintstone. :)

and

Maybe it's because Bizjet operators very rarely employ low-hour pilots, except through nepotism or specific expensive intergrated ab-initio training courses which have been stopped due to the recession. Furthermore, seeing as companies like Netjets require 1500 hours minimum, including Jet or Turbo-prop time, and even their recuitment is frozen, it is not an option for the people reading this thread.

Some wit, some imagination...In reality it's the latter you'll need a lot of if you want to get into Bizjets with 250 hours. :(

What I think Flintstone and Redsnail are pointing out is that there are (longer-term) options for careers in Aviation other than with Ryanair and the Airlines. Fair point. Good point even. Unfortunately here is not the place to be boasting about how great your lives are when clearly you are not in the same stage of your careers as the people asking about funding Ryanair type ratings. I can assure you both that there are plenty of us who would much prefer to join a Bizjet operator but they won't even look at our CVs...and you know it.

Flintstone grow up
 

I agree totally with MikeHotel. Flintstone you are not the only one who gets all the trimmings and benefits in this industry so get off your high horse. No one said you missed out on anything. I get every benefit you get it doesnt mean I have to spell it all out braggingly to cadets who are trying to get the money together for this godforesaken FR type rating.
Yes its not the greatest deal in the world but if these guys pass the line and keep their heads down they will be earning 3 to 5k a month and gaining vauable experience. Better that sitting at home renewing their instrument ratings.
If you or I were cadets now do you think we would get a gig with all the benefits you mentioned? Chances are very slim and you know it.

Mikehotel,Well said.


Flintstone, firstly I offer my apologies for my lack of elocution (see I do have big words, and can spell when I want them). I also apologise I don’t prove read all my posts on a thread which has fallen into the entertainment category rather then information one.

Fair play to you on landing the dream job mate. Free type and top salary. Nice one. :ok:
You knew a contact in a high place, or someone else did, or you are really good and got that bit of much needed luck.

If the majority of us stuck to your principles then we would never get a job. Getting on the ladder is usually the hardest part. And there isn’t enough free type ratings for 10% of us never mind all of us.

And if you are going to say you had no special connections or were not blessed, then one evidently had multiples more then 250 hours and hence other options then paying for type or getting paid low.

And Flintstone thrust me I have the wit and imagination. RYN wont be the only CV I write up or phone call I make….as is the same for everyone else…little less arrogance:= would be nice when you know dam well everyone doesn’t have the luxury of sitting around waiting for what you say you have.Times are not good and maybe if you have another job to fall back into you can do this.For most Europeans there is NO job to fall back into and wait.:{

I think you all miss the point. Why does Ryanair need to be your first job?
I have a friend at Ryanair, he's happy for the time being. He joined as a direct entry Captain.

Do you think our bizjet jobs are our first jobs? Heavens no.
Instructing, charter, freight, regional airlines etc were our stepping stones. Both of us have moved continents to seek better jobs.
It's my 6th job.
BTW, bizjets have employed low houred guys, but you have to know where to look.

Do you think we don't know exactly how you feel?
Wondering when someone will say yes?
We know exactly what it's like. It's painful and something I don't want to go through again. Been through it too many times.
It's frustrating like hell but low houred guys deserve a better deal than the one Ryanair demands from you.
Desperation is not a good bargaining chip. :(

Many of you are in a Catch 22. You've paid over the odds for your CPL/IR and so now you've priced yourselves out of the turboprop & instructing market.
That's very unfortunate.

As for those who feel that the airlines etc shouldn't have to pay for the type rating. Why shouldn't they?
With many new aircraft a certain amount of type ratings are thrown in for FREE from the manufacturer. Also, the airlines get the sim etc at cost price.
You have to pay for the instructor etc, with the airline, the instructor is already paid.

Also, the airlines and in fact all companies of a certain size have to demonstrate that they invest in employee training and enhancement to get subsidies/tax breaks.

Qantaslink in Australia started charging for Dash 8 type ratings. The applications dried up over night. They have now gone back to paying for the type rating & paying the pilots to train.

What sort of employer would you prefer?

If you can get the money without risking your house, your parents house and so forth, fine, just don't go broke "living the dream"...
Good luck

And there is your answer.

Generally this is true, but i would see a company like Ryanair not accepting the manufacturers training allowance in order to force a cheaper aircraft price, especially as they have turned training cadets into a money making venture!

Not true for any of the 4 aircraft manufacturers training centers that i have dealt with, additional training is charged at market rate.

Mutt

Seeing as the Mods believe this thread should degenerate into a Ryanair debate, I'll bite:

No, we haven't missed the point! It doesn't have to be a first job, but it's not an awful option. In any case, you are not comparing like with like. The market was very different when you were starting out.

You suggest: for first jobs.

There are very few instructing jobs. FTOs have suffered in this recession and it is constant advice on this forum that a £7K FI Rating is not the key to hours it might have been even 3 years ago. In any case, instructing without any real motivatation to teach is intrinsically bad IMHO. In the past, Airlines did not take on low-hour pilots, so the route you followed was the norm. Things have changed. Given the choice between paying £7K in order to earn over £120K over 3 years to build 1500 737NG hours, I know which I would prefer.

Charter? Are you suggesting charter Airlines are recruiting pilots? They haven't suffered in the recession due to lack of demand, shedding jobs left, right and centre. The contacts I have are scared for their own jobs even though my CV has received good comments by being on the right desk (albeit at the wrong time!)

Freight? As with charter, they're not recruiting more than the odd few pilots, mostly, if not all, with plenty of hours. Many freight operators fly large aircraft and have the choice of many, many out of work experienced pilots.

Regional airlines? I'm sorry but the Eastern Airlines of this world only take people with 1000 hours minimum and the ones who do take low-hour pilots have closed their applications systems. Flybe etc have stopped recruitment too. I could list many other Airlines that aren't recruiting or have drowned under a massive weight of CVs.

Look, I'm not saying that there are no jobs out there but they are so few and far between that you could spend 2 years driving up and down the country with your CV and not even get an interview. Some of us don't want to be in the same position for the next 2 years and must get.

Ryanair and their expensive Type Rating offer a way to get a very good flying job on reasonable terms and conditions provided you are willing to put up with their awful system.

If that's true then I would put it down to Australia being a small market with unique recruitment needs. Anyone advertising pilot jobs in the UK or Europe, whether charging for Type Ratings or not, is swamped with hundreds, if not thousands, of applications from hopefuls.

That is the situation with Ryanair.

I'm not desperate but I will be flying a 737NG in 3 months time, earning a decent wage. In 2 years time I will have unfrozen my ATPL and in 3-4 years time I will be either a Captain or I will have moved to an Airline with better terms and conditions. I'm not desperate, I'm just sensible.

And not a very good one either.

Since I was accused of having it comparatively easy...

I finished my CPL in 1991. There was a recession. Had to wait 3 years for my first full time job. Instructed part time on the weekends waiting for the market to improve.

In a population of 22 million, a couple of hundred applications is the same as a couple of thousand "over here". There are more jobs in Europe/UK than there are in Australia/New Zealand, esp jet jobs.

I got my JAA ATPL in 2001/2002. In fact I was in an ATPL theory class in Coventry when the WTC were attacked. Yes, another recession..

My timing's been lousy.

Where did I say it was easy? We have been accused of "not understanding". We do understand, we've been there and we know that it does improve.

Market rates for simulators change. What CAE & Alteon etc will charge an individual is different to what they charge a company. Also, if a company pays for your rating, the instructor is paid by the company and you'll be paid to train.

What we also know is that not every one who graduates with a CPL will get a job. That's something the flight schools do not tell you.

If you want to go the Ryanair* route, go for it, just read the contract very closely, get it scrutinised by an lawyer so you know exactly what you are getting yourself into (tax, NI, base location and transfers, hotac, stby, sim etc). Don't be blinded by the shiny jet.

And as I posted earlier, don't go broke "living the dream".

Good luck :)

* or any other company that charges for a type rating and hires you as a contractor, not as an employee.

Redsnail,

I agree with you in principle, but as you know the reality is that unlike Australasia and the US there is no GA industry in Europe capable of supporting the needs of the airlines. Africa is an option, but the opportunities are still limited.

With regard to the regionals, their requirements are no different from anybody else's. For most you simply will not get a look in if you are not prepared to stump up the cash.

I am absolutely certain, that the guys posting here would jump at an Aer Arann, Aurigny,Air Soutwest, Eastern, etc if the offer came rather than pay for a FR TR. But as they all ask for money FR would probably be the first port of call for many.

The Quantaslink situation is interesting. But seeing as Jetstar was and will be expanding rapidly and taking on GA guys with twin time, what right thinking Aussie would pay for a TP TR when they could pay for an A320 one and earn more?

With regards to the TRs, I don't think it is as straight forward as that. Our airline leases all its aircraft, they don't come with TRs. Whilst it is arguable that TR is a significant cost, I cannot understand how pilots can agree to pay for line training, that just baggers belief!