People that have problems are given time to correct them. If they dont correct them, they dont pass. This is not a driving test which you can take 100 times then pass on lucky 101. This is testing for an aircraft , pick it up quick or else start sending CVs to your local bus company.

As for The Beak,

Do you have Ryanair experience, come on??
My mates at ryanair blah blah rubbish doesnt count.
Fair enough you dont like FR practices...dont partake in them, easy.

Your posts no longer hold any creditability. Nothing personal but they don't.
Where people source their funds is none of your business and the way you commit about them is disgusting. Your thinking will get you nowhere fast.

ei 022 while i agree calling these ryr hopefulls parasites might be a bit rough,saying someone i.e the beak has no credibility because you dont agree with there opinion is a little narrow minded.

as for saying the beaks thoughts will prevent him advancing in his career i fail to see how.i share some of his beliefs and it doesnt seemed to have held me back.quite the opposite infact.maybe you might to elaborate as to how

is think asking if he has any direct ryr experience relevant so he can have an opinion? no i'd imagine.do you have direct experience on everything you hold an opinion on,because i certainly don't

referring to mates experience is not rubbish is it?we base alot of our decisions on others experiences

i do agree with you about its not a driving test, and you do need to progress.but progress quickly...im not so sure.most trainers i have dealt with seem to be able to adjust their training methods and pace to suit the candidate and enjoy the challenge.i think alot does come down to the efforts of the candidate though

I do love it when people say things like:

Are you the messiah? No? Then could you please put that my posts do not hold credibility to you rather than making a sweeping statement on behalf of the population? What's there to believe or not believe in? It isn't about believability. It is my opinion for people who are seeking advice to read, assimilate and compare with all the other opinions given on here.

Yes they can be fixed. In this instance it wasn't. Poor speed control towards Vref, too early a flare and not pulling the thrust levers all the way back are all reasons for it so don't discard it as nonsense.

I also love it when all the 'cool dudes' come on and give their quick laissez faire 'definite article' post and then claim that they shaln't be checking back. The gods have spoken. Just rememeber boys and girls, you're nothing without your mummy and daddy. Where would you really be without them backing you? Not subsidising Ryanairs passengers.


As always, assuming it was a male.

Blackred, thanks for answering the rest, I shaln't repeat what you have already written.

I have spoken nothing but the truth and quoted natural rules and nobel peace prize winning writers.

Thinking is a time consuming process, I'd say the same applies to anyone. My knowledge will get me anywhere and everywhere however, which can't be said for some of you.:E

Why don't you use some of it to get your arse out of the job centre?

Pfff...hahaha...so lets get it straight, your knowledge got you an fatpl by the most expensive means (integrated) and then it got you into a bankrupt airline and into the dole queue.

Wow beak you really are a genius. Do you realise that some people who joined ryanair did all their training modular ie. less than 50k - then paid for the type rating and are now earning in the region of 60 grand a year? Idiots!! They should have listened to you all along, and then maybe they would be flipping burgers in mcdonalds alongside you!

Thanks a lot guys for the many and elaborate answers!

It all makes a lot of sense what you are saying and I personally could not really believe that people get chopped without extra help provided or reasons given. After all people do learn at a different pace and making mistakes is just human and part of the game. I have found that flying is not easy but it definitely is not rocket science either. Becoming a proficient pilot is down to training and attitude.

The more I hear about RYR from the insight the more I get the impression the company is not bad at all. They do expect a high standard but they will help you succeed. After all they need a lot of pilots to fly their airplanes. All the bad rumors about them do not add up when you talk to people actually working for them. But I thought I would rather want to find out before I actually sign the check (should I ever get the chance to :rolleyes:)...

Ha ha ha......:{

I can imagine your little minds ticking over as to what I do and how I trained. You have this mental picture and it isn't correct. I am not jobless.

I don't think many of you have an fATPL. You're too cocky.

Anyway, I'll check back to see how things progress with this debate but I am not having an argument with a bunch of people I don't know and haven't met, on a computer.

The Beak, March 2007:

How did you manage to go from a silly little ppl holder to an all knowing chief test/training/super pilot in around 2.5 years?? I'm very impressed.

I love the fact that you say you passed the army and navy selection hahaha now that's funny.

By the way Mr Beak in March 2007 I was 22 years old with a whole 1 hours flying experience...now I fly in the RHS.

But I'm nowhere near as intelligent or knowledgeable as you. I'm just a lowly newbie pilot with **** all experience oh but I do get paid to fly aeroplanes. And no I don't want fries, thanks for asking.
:ok:

I'm watching this as a reader only and have my own opinions as to who are the real pilots here (and therefore qualified to comment) and who aren't.

The Beak and others can, I feel, safely ignore that famous Walt Halfbaked Boy* aka Phantasm** aka Reluctant737*** who in one thread wrote.... .....yet today said.....
He's deleted some of the comments now but given his propensity for b*ll**** I've taken to saving them for posterity. Perhaps now he's out of the equation you can get on with debating the matter at hand.



*Claims to be a PPL, or is it fATPL?
**Claims to be a 747 skipper.
*** Claims to be a RYR FO.

My little mind is ticking over alright, seeing as you dont have a degree and no flying job and a pig ignorant stuck up attitude - im assuming that you are not exactly being head hunted into high paying jobs at the moment. I'll have forgotten about all this nonsense by tomorrow morning of course, as unlike you i have better things to do with my time than spend my life on pprune criticising strangers - like flying a 737 accross europe for example.

The part i don't get is why is it just ryr getting the bashing, last time I looked they're far from the only ones charging for TRs?
Theres plenty of guys and gals that paid for their overpriced TRs with other airlines and have gotten chopped for many reasons,

should this not be a industry in general bashing topic rather than JUST ryr?? :confused:

Oh and beak, is it ok to have mummy and daddy back up my loan since i spent all my money from my previous career paying off college debts? is that allowed??

Flinty,

You're in error mate, so let me clarify. I'm a PPL, 130 hours, and finished my ATPL theory last month. One of the posts you referenced above was a reply I made to a query in the Pro Pilot Training/Studies forum.

My replies to the medical diversion thread in the Rumours and News forum about an hour ago were not deleted by me, and now I can't view that forum either, so I've PMed a mod about that, but I assure you it was not my own doing, I thought they were sensible suggestions!

As for last night, I made a post or two in here and yes, I did delete those because I knew it would spark off an argument which has been had over and over in this thread from reading it through. I like to give sensible input.

I don't know to whom I'm being compared, but please get your facts right, I'm not having a go, but I am who I am and it's no secret to a few on here!

as i have said a few times now already referring to people sponsored by mummy and daddy as parasitic is wrong.but judging by the way ye have all responded to the beaks comments i think ye have proven to be ridiculous.

its like watching a load of children throwing toys out of their prams,if you dont like what he said then debate like adults

dont degrade someone who differs to your opinion.

listening to people degrading those employed in a fast food restaurant as though that makes someone a lower form of life.

this is why he made the comments he did because the implication is that daddy pays for your rating and licence and then you lose all perspective of how priviledged you are.so rather that expressing your gratitude for the fortunate position you find yourselves in, like spolit kids you sneer at those less fortunate.or those that choose to question the values you have been instilled with.

all ye had to do was say yes daddy did pay for my rating and im incredibly lucky and grateful, instead one individual reckons he has paid back 35k in 5 months and another start being patronising towards those on minimum wage.what a way to respond.ye have just proven everything he was getting at, someone else added something about only comment on things you have direct involvement with!!?:rolleyes:

well done:ok:

You cannot be serious? TheBeak comes on here and calls people parasites? I'm supposed to reply by pouring my heart out to him about how fortunate and privileged i am?

For the record now that you have brought it up, i do feel extremely grateful and fortunate to be in my position. Believe me life hasnt always been so kind, i know how good i have it now. I also have people very close to me who have lost their jobs recently - and there is no shame in that as there is a massive recession on over here. There is no shame at all in working in low paid jobs, or being on the dole now at this time.

The only person coming on here with the intention of sneering at people is the beak.

Yes, once again another potentially constructive thread descends into a dick-fight thanks to our resident saboteur derailing it with personal attacks at post 3. Of course those on the receiving end are going to reply, some more diplomatically than others, some more assertively. As I said before, Beak is entitled to his viewpoint, but it is the privilege of each reader to decide how much value and credibility to attach to it. Zero would be my suggested figure.

Beak's monotonous and repetitive attacks are based largely on misinformation, assumptions and figures that he has plucked out of his @r$£. He also seriously underestimates those that do make it to the right hand seat in Ryanair. Even the calmest, most restrained Bhuddist monk would probably give him a thump in the nose if he had the balls to speak to people face-to-face in the manner that he writes here.

Take his ramblings with the pinch of salt they deserve. As for his addiction to cutting and pasting from Wikipedia, online dictionaries and quotations; here's a little something you might enjoy:

"Over and over and over and over. / Like a monkey with a miniature cymbal"



Cheers, TT
(former high street chain coffee boy, paid my own way, not afraid of an honest days work, but still a parasite!)

TT,

Now that 2245 'edit' was very interesting!!

Why did you just remove your reference to a previous military flying career?

I had assumed that you had completed a SSC, then did your 'coffee bit' prior to landing a commercial gig.

Care to elucidate?

BN

Fair enough. I don't really want to bang on about it too much. I know how boring 'when I was in the RAF...' stories can get and since I've already mentioned it in this thread I decided to chop that bit out.

The fact is I served as a commissioned officer and frontline pilot for several years, saving money to my best ability. I left, did my civil licences, modular, with the money I had saved only to find the employment market looking pretty desolate. I spent the best part of a year seeking flying employment, with virtually no leads coming up, despite having a fairly respectable aviation CV. In that time I worked in Starbucks. I am not afraid of an honest day's work whether that be leading a formation at low level through Iraq or making cappucinos for £5.80/hr. I do not consider myself too good for any job. It wasn't my dream long term career but it kept my head above water for a while and gave me the freedom to give 7 day's notice and take any opportunity that came up.

Ryanair offered me a position and I gratefully accepted as it was by far the best option I had. On joining the company I have not found a single person who regrets joining up, and it therefore irritates me somewhat to be on the receiving end of such abuse, especially when so much of it is factually incorrect. Beak's facts, figures and generalizations are so wildly inaccurate that occasionally I feel obliged to put up a counter argument.

So there you go. That's me. Any questions?

Edit:

And to pre-empt another regular point that comes up: Am I just trying to buy my way into a jet job when I should work my way up as in the good old days? Well to answer that, my experience is in a multi-crew aircraft with two gas turbine engines. Despite that I applied for everything from light aircraft ferry flying, bush flying, instructing, GA, bizjets, every airline on the planet etc. That fact is there's even a waiting list to be an unpaid glider tug pilot these days. Ryanair is a damn good opportunity in such a market.

Incidentally, I make a mean coffee. Seriously. One of my most satisfying skills.:ok:

Irishpilot,

I think you will find that 'Beak' affords us the courtesy of proof reading his posts!

BN

Pretty much my thoughts too, and something that isn't really fully acknowledged by the criticism of SSTR schemes.

In someways the risk/reward ratio is possibly acceptable. In other cases it certainly does not seem to be so. Do you pay upfront and risk loosing the money for the benefit of a high salary later or do you take a reduced salary? My most preferred option would always be the latter - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush! One also has to consider how a low cost airline pays so well for some, maybe because some others earn a pittance?

For me the risk was minimal, I didn't pay for my TR upfront, but the cost will be recovered by the company over the next couple of years. As it always was for fully sponsored BA cadets, etc. Few organisations are going to be willing to reduce their competitveness by passing training costs onto either their employees and/or customers.

You must remember the tax consequences too. A SSTR is paid by after-tax money. A company sponsored TR is paid by pre-tax money. That's an enormous difference.

Exactly v6g.

If anyone ever needed proof that Ryanair put no weight upon the interview stage of their selection, just have a read of this thread.

The calibre of some of you people is appaling, no wonder Ts and Cs are dropping like a stone. I wouldn't give you a permanant contract either.

Well spotted by BN there also, there was no need for TT to remove the RAF portion of his career. And I don't feel your justification, justifies. Clearly another Ryanair walt.

It's a shame you aren't aware of how boring the 'I'm not afraid of a hard days work stories are......'

Classic sign of arrogance.:yuk:

I stand by what I have said with regards to this airline, its practices and the majority of its PPRUNE posting employees.

Crikey Beak, the real world must be a very confusing and scary place for you. There can't actually be any staff working for Ryanair at all, seeing as you accuse every single person of being a 'Walt'.

I have laid my cards on the table for you, to back up my statements, and have given you my career history, including the inbetween job that many people would probably take the p--s out of. You, on the other hand, tell us nothing solid about yourself and yet accuse me of lying about both the pilot jobs I have had.

What more do I have to do? Maybe I need to scan my airside pass and my old F1250 (do you know what that is Beak) before we can have a sensible discussion. Well, I'm not going to do that. I've done enough already to bust my anonymity to those actually IN the industry who know me and the bottom line is that I couldn't give a monkey's what you choose to believe. I'm sure most people can read my posts and your posts and draw their own conclusions.

I have never been an arrogant or aggressive person but, by God, you seem to do your best to drive people to it. Your denial of any facts that don't suit your mental model and your general manner are going make for job interview hilarity - you really are putting a ball and chain around your own ankle.

Just for balance
 

I did my first initial type rating in March.

I didn't have to pay for it and I joined on the standard FO salary for my company. So it's not fair to say that there is no such thing as a free rating. It is fair though to say they are very rare - even more so now :suspect:

I would hope that most people considering FR are going in with their eyes open with regards to the contract. I am given to understand that the quality of training is very high and clearly the fleet is modern.

As a new FO, I think FR is a reasonable starting point in terms of the experience you will build and for unfreezing your ATPL.

I couldn't have stretched to the SSTR myself and I don't want to get drawn on the detrimental affect these have on future T&C's.

I can certainly understand both sides of the argument with those who take loans / family assistance for a considered risk/reward view towards FR (being pretty much the only gig in town) and what must undeniably be a huge sense of pride and achievement to those who work & save towards their licence and that ultimate prize of the first job without leaning on anyone else.

My own situation leans strongly towards the latter and that helps me sleep at night knowing that even if I were made redundant tomorrow, I have a previous career I can fall straight back into and nobody else's assets are at risk.

The nature of this site is to debate, and as such there are at least 2 sides to each story / thread. The Beak offers a viewpoint in which I see a good deal of value - but then it is pretty easy for me to say so as I am in the extremely fortunate position of being employed. But also guys like TT highlight that not everyone going to Ryanair is a fresh-faced 19yo leaning fully on the rose-tinted specs of their parents.

Before people post on here (and mostly it is behind anonymous monikers) take a moment to consider whether you would say the same thing to someone over a beer in a bar downroute. :ok:

Anyways, I am on hotel standby so need to find something else to do with my time. To the gym methinks.:E

A sensible, balanced post. Thank you, that's all we want.

I said I wouldn't but then I couldn't resist. Here's a little something just for you Beak.

At least you believe my coffee making exploits. (Do you?)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/...7a2b41c1b7.jpg

Just a few things I happened to have hanging in the wardrobe. I suppose you'll accuse me of having run down to a very well stocked fancy dress shop within the last half hour! I could have done the same with ID cards, but I really don't want you turning up outside my house in the middle of the night.

Don't feel you have to apologize to me again. I've become accustomed to your debating style.:ok:

beaky's hobby
 

Can anyone lend the beak some floats please?!!!!:O

Where you get that then?
 

Hey Torque....I've seen all those uniforms on e-bay.Ya big fibber:D.

Best wishes,

Jimmyjetplane.

I am not unemployed however I am not an employed pilot at the moment. I am in some pilot holdpools and I am waiting longingly to be picked up. I do believe that not taking the easy, expensive and short term option is the correct option for me and anyone else. If I wasn't in the holdpools I would feel the same.

beak you are a dreamer man, a complete and utter dreamer

Amazed!
 

I have returned onto PPRUNE for the first time in months, to be confronted by sheer rage and disbelief with how someone like TheBeak can exist in our community. I understand that there are some bitter and twisted pilots out there and probably rightly so, having probably been used and abused by many different airlines and caught in the wrong situation more than once.

However, I only read the first page of this thread as quite frankly I was appalled with your arrogance TheBeak. I'm not sure who you are or what you do. What I do know is that you've come through OAA on the modular course in recent years. Now is this what the crux of the problem is. Are you jealous about those younger than you who could afford the integrated course? Did your mummy and daddy not have enough money for you to do the course when you were still young and impressionable and dare I say it, polite? (BTW, those who know me know I'm not saying that the Modular route is a lesser route, just a different way. If I wasn't sponsored, then I would have been on the Modular route myself.)

Personally, if I could have afforded it when I was 18, then I know for a fact my life would be in a far better position at this age than it is now. I think anyone that can do the integrated course and then the RYR TR at the age of 18-21 is a better man than me.

As far as parasite is concerned. You mention issues such as borrowing off mummy and daddy or using a spouse’s agreement for securing the loan to the house etc. Is this again a sign of bitterness that your spouse wouldn't let you do this; if indeed a human being could bear to buy a house and share it with you.

There are a lot of people on this forum who know me and I'm not going to justify who I am. But I will say that if I wasn't in the fortunate situation that I am, I would regrettably not be able to afford the RYR TR. For all those who are; of whom I know many, good luck and I'm sure it'll be more than worth it when you buggers have 4 stripes and I'll be just getting my SFO pay rise. Who's to say that these "parasites" are not going to repay the favour and indeed the money to their loved ones (do I need to explain love? If so TheBeak, it's that warm fuzzy feeling I imagine you have when you look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself "I'm the man" just before your mother brings you your tea and toast in the morning)

Lastly, TheBeak, you've done nothing but make me think you are immature and probably not the sharpest tool in the shed. I particularly loved the comment when you stated that you haven't personally offended anyone. YOU do not decide if you've offended anyone, it's the people you are speaking to that decide if they are offended. I can clearly see that you have offended most people that have read and indeed replied to this.

Cpt. Rosco, I look forward with glee to any comments you have on this issue. All I can say to TheBeak is quite honestly I hope I never have to work with you as I think your attitude to others stinks.

And if you correct my grammar or diction. I'm a :mad: pilot and I don't care. I left defence writing behind quite a few years ago and good riddance. x

Couldn't have put it any better myself P-T. We wait with baited breath for Beak's response, although I'm sure he'l find someway of manipulating what you have said and give us the same old spiel we keep hearing from him. Just a little clue the Beak may not be the sharpest tool in the box....

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...n/post_old.gif 2nd April 2009, 17:59
TheBeak
"Somewhere that has the Twinstar, they are the planes to do your IR on. Absolute beauties......the FADEC and the G1000 make things ALOT easier and free up capacity."

Particular emphasis on the last three words....Beak needs all the spare capacity he can get.

The Beak

Yes I am clearly not a Ryanair pilot, that’s why my first post on here was looking for digs in our Madrid base! Lol

You know what, you stick to making up perfect grammar and quoted facts on Ryanair and why you won’t fly for them (or anybody right now) because you clearly have the time on your hands and ill stick to flying a 737 for good money and loving going to work every day.

Enjoy your little rants and ill enjoy having a flying job I love.

Beak


Who's the parasite?


These rants smack of New Labour, which is probably for the best given that they've just upped your Job Seekers Allowance.

Any parent that loans/gives their son/daughter money, surely does so with careful thought. It still seems more than intrusive to me, that any person can say this is right or wrong.

I'm way too old to fall into your Mummy's little darling box, but feel that the notion that you can pigeon hole these young wannabes as mere 'spoilt brats' is nothing more than the ravings of a Union crazed pit worker.

What the :mad: do you want them to do, pay back their school fees too?

Regards
CR

Mr Hollingworth,

This is not meant as an attack on you personally, but........

..... is it not a little disingenuous to make a statement about free type ratings and being on a standard FOs money, when my guess would be that you are on 60% pay for 4 years along with so many others at NJs?

Wally.

Free TR
 

Just to add fuel to the fire. There is such a thing as a free type rating, I've been fortunate enough to have mine paid for by the company.

Beak, i'm certain that you're never wrong about anything. There's nothing anyone can say to help you because you're so convinced that your point of view out-ranks all others. Your generalisations, half-baked facts and arrogance are breathtaking.

Love or hate ryanair (or easy, BA et al), most people can see both sides of the argument, at least to some degree. You're a bit odd actually, you can’t let it go, even if you have to argue that black is white.

I've read posts by you in another thread on FR. Your analysis and arguments were so infantile its not worth debating with you.

No offense taken :ok:

Although to be fair - that was one of 5 'voluntary' options which people considered based on their own unique set of personal circumstances and doesn't have a direct bearing on the type rating.

Can't let it go? You're arguing with yourselves. I have said my piece and the more sensible will take note. I am not having an argument with people I don't know and who make up assumed insults to curry favour and 'make friends'. You haven't been able to fight the corner of Ryanair and your methods of financing your opportunity so you have defended yourselves, even TT. It's the only battle he could win. But you'll never win the war.;)


The 'you work in McDonalds' , 'just because you couldn't afford' and 'you're bitter' comments don't address the debate, are a million miles from the truth and show your lack of understanding to discuss the situation. What your parents did for you as a 7 - 18 year old whilst at school and what your parents do for you there after as a 22, 25, 32 year old are very different stories. If you are still taking the handouts in the later stages the you are the New Labour person. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.


Anyway I must dash, I have to go change the oil on the deep fat fryers......:uhoh:

Phil,

It does have a bearing on type ratings (if I understand you).

I don't understand how airlines can afford to provide people with a free type rating. The economics of it do not make sense to me. I could understand, I think, that there remains an argument for airlines trying to train experienced pilots for free, as the training risks are lower than for the likes of newbies such as you or I, and especially as we are both older and less easy to train than our 18-25yr old colleagues. The idea of being given a free training course seems odd to me, and there are few airlines that do it. RYR make you pay upfront, BA and many others make you pay by way of reduced salary, and those that still do genuinely give it away for nothing will surely stop soon?

Open question to all members - what is the argument for free type ratings, I have had a trawl through a lot of threads on RYR and many others, and have not seen a succinct argument put as to why the airlines, and not us, should pay.

Wally.

Wally, Life is short, lets agree to disagree and move on :ok:

I think it's very sad and frustrating that the Moderator has not posted a warning on this thread that people should stick to the topic or face being barred from the Forum. The topic in this case is not a full-blown argument about the sense or madness of agreeing to work for Ryanair. But, sadly, it seems every thread that is started by someone genuinely seeking information about Ryanair is ruined. Please can the Moderators ensure that this is no longer allowed; it isn't in other parts of the Forum and shouldn't be tolerated here simply because this it the Wannabes section!

Back on topic:

Yes, you do get an unsigned and undated letter 'To Whom it may concern' confirming that you have signed a contract with Brookfield to join the pool of pilots supplied to Ryanair. There is no mention of projected earning. I would say it's completely worthless in terms of providing evidence of employment for the purposes of borrowing money.

Personally, together with my spouse, I have borrowed the money from a bank. How and why I did that are my business, but I rest assured knowing that I would be able to service the debt even if things were to go tits-up with Ryanair. I sympathise with people who are not in my fortunate position and would take a different view of borrowing money in order to join Ryanair if I were younger, had fewer responsibilities, or did not have another career to fall back on.

Each to his or her own. ;)