Ryanair TR Funding
 

Do ryanair have a deal or partnership with any banks or loan providers?

The way Oxford do/did with the HSBC.... You basically take your letter of acceptance from Oxford to the bank, and they pretty much give you £65,000 no questions asked (well minimum)

Do ryanair do anything like that.... or do you really need to find the £30,000 alone!

I would imagine the majority of people applying for ryanair are unemployed pilots, already in debt, and little chance of a bank actually saying "yes" to a £30,000 loan

I believe you can get a statement of 'expected' earnings and a copy of your contract from Brookfield.

Not much use as it basically confirms that you are self employed and not guaranteed a penny during your employment. I'm not sure what the banks think of this, particularly as you say, most will already have their fair share of debt already.

Other than that, you are on your own to sort yourself out. But get used to it as thats how life with FR is.

EK

They use mummy and daddys house value or they use their own that their spouse has contributed towards. What's the word? Parasite.

Beak, who the :mad: do you think you are? You know nothing about my, or my colleagues', personal financial circumstances yet you never miss an opportunity to have a swipe based on your own speculation. It is a real nuisance that no-one can have a sensible conversation about Ryanair because almost single-handedly you always divert the thread into a dick-fight based on your own personal vendetta. Let it go man.

I don't have to justify myself to a bitter, unemployed and unemployable cretin like yourself but suffice to say that I have no debt for my licences and my TR was funded by previous overpayments into the mortgage which is in my sole name. Some of us have worked damn hard over many years to get where we are. Your post is inaccurate and offensive. Give it up for God's sake.

Torque tonight, you're a parasite. I'll give my opinion/view and that is that. It shows a real lacking in your intelligence (that is you ability to understanding) and your weighting that you feel the need to resort to vulgarity on so many occasions. You may have 'worked' for your mortgage, I don't care, but many, many, many of your colleagues have not.

End of.

You claim to have been an RAF pilot before - probably more like RAF regiment.

Do please explain how I am a parasite. No other person is carrying any debt on my behalf, and my entire training has been paid for with money that I have saved in advance. I try to restrain myself from vulgarity and think I have given you quite an easy ride given your posting history.

Right, you don't care about the facts. You're just going to throw around accusations based on assumptions anyway. You don't actually know anything about my colleagues either. Unless you've read their bank statements I suggest you stop pontificating about their finances.

You can convince yourself that I was an RAF potato peeler if you like. Never let the facts get in the way of a good outburst.

I still cant belive how much of a tit TheBeak is on here!

he really is in every post about info on Ryanair, why dont you do us a favor and start a thread called I hate Ryanair and talk to people in it who give a rats ass about what you want to say and leave alone the genuine posts from people who are after genuine advice and not just your own twisted pretty false and uneducated advice.

in other words sod off been a bitter :mad: all your life

Thanks for giving me an easy ride Torque Tongiht - I wish Ryanairpilot42 had (Who I'd question whether he/she actually is a 'Ryanair pilot' - a name like that makes me think of the Shakespeare line 'Methinks the lady doth protest too much') - if you have to say it, it probably isn't terribly obvious and thus not quite true.

I don't need to know many of your colleagues to know their financial circumstances - I went to an integrated FTO, I know how most paid for their training and know how most of the Ryanair '3rd series brigade' paid for their TRs.

BBpilot2009 asked a question and I answered the most common method people use. People who use others wealth and allow others to take the risks and make the effort on their behalf are in my book a parasite, a scab and like a pair of pants, always on the bum.


You probably should have stuck to the previous words because these ones show you to be an iliiterate yob who clearly doesn't understand basic words in the English language, the ICAO professional language for flying. Sod off been (is that possibly being? or if you are from a rough part of the country bein'?a bitter t**t all of your life.

No doubt there'll be claims I am being petty and rising to the bait. I am not. I am just proving the intellect and thus credibility of a few numptys whos views should be taken with a pinch of salt. The views are desperately slewed and devoid of any justification. They sell the idea that Ryanair is the only way, that short termism is the way forward and that the self worth is for those who get left behind. Remember the tortoise and the hare? There will be consequences to your actions of joining Ryanair, ones that extend far beyond the mythical £60K a year starting salary. As they say, every dog has its day.

I suspect 'Beak' is probably quite correct in his assertion that the Bank of Mum and Dad is often the preferred RYR loan provider.

Unlike most 'contracting' arrangements, the absence of a guaranteed minimum days of work has the banks searching for a 'second exit'. After all, MOL might decide to 'slice the hours cake more thinly' in the future as more eager BRK cadets arrive?

On a personal note; I would like to take the opportunity to thank the BRK Cadets for their continued RYR patronage. Not only do they subsidize my cheap flights to the sun but, most importantly, their RYR fixation means they don't mess up my T's and C's.

Frankly, on a personal level, I fail to see any down side to the BRK / RYR opportunity. I hope every new pilot entering the employment market joins RYR. They get 'hours' and 'Gold Bars'; we get cheap flights and no competition for our jobs!

Yes, no doubt many, especially the younger guys, are financially backed up by their families. I am not going to venture any opinion on that here. However, Beak's sweeping generalisations are just that (as are many of the 'facts' he asserts concerning Ryanair). To call such people parasites is not reasonable discussion in my opinion and a decent person would probably offer a retraction or an apology. Doubt we'll see that then.

Beak is entitled to his opinion (although flawed) on Ryanair, and makes that opinion well know at every opportunity by sabotaging and hijacking what would otherwise be constructive and rational discussion. His steadfast self-belief in the face of opposition is in a way admirable, and I hope that he is content in holding the moral high ground of not joining Ryanair as he stands in the dole queue.

For many, with expensive qualifications sitting idle, ratings expiring, skills deteriorating as time goes by and training becoming a distant memory, joining Ryanair is a very sound career move, at a time when the business is in tatters. Beak may genuinely believe that his unemployment at the moment is a wise career strategy but we will have to agree to disagree. If Beak can find anyone who regrets joining Ryanair, his broken record argument may carry more weight.

Now back on topic, no, Ryanair do not have finance arrangements. It is up to the individual to sort out. If you can't give a straight answer like that, Beak, without throwing abuse around, then do us all a favour and button it.

I am not offering a retraction or an apology because I haven't personally offended anyone. The views, opinions and words that I speak are, to my mind, matter of fact. I do however apologise if I have raised your blood pressure at all TT.

Me calling such people parasites is no more a misnomer than you saying I am sabotaging and hijacking these threads.

I am not unemployed however I am not an employed pilot at the moment. I am in some pilot holdpools and I am waiting longingly to be picked up. I do believe that not taking the easy, expensive and short term option is the correct option for me and anyone else. If I wasn't in the holdpools I would feel the same.

The fact of the matter is most, and not all, Ryanair TR trainees have paid for the training on the back of their parents homes. I would put the level of debt, including the term, for the average uni graduate Ryanair pilot at about £175000. That is insane. It shouldn't be an option.

If you're an ex RAF guy or girl that has served their full commission, time may not be so on your side, training debts will be far less and I can see some logic to a Ryanair TR for someone like yourself......for what it is worth.

I'll take that as a partial apology. Well done and good luck.

I would understand that RYR are particularly attracted to the younger pilot demographic. This being the case I fail to understand how the 'Dowry' can be paid by anything but 'old money'?

To this end, I must agree that 'Beak' is quite accurate, albeit parasite is an unfortunate choice of word.

TT, please do and it was.:)

Big Number, it's nice that you are often able to offer some support to certain things I say, cheers. I know it is not necessarily for my benefit but it is good that you can be bothered to comment when you do agree rather than be a bystander and allow me to take it from every angle!

Parasite may be a better choice of word than you think:

parasite (plural parasites)

1. (biology) A (generally undesirable) living organism that exists by stealing the resources produced/collected by another living organism. Lice, fleas, ticks and mites are widely spread parasites.
2. (pejorative) A person who relies on other people's efforts and gives little back (originally a sycophant).

parasite - Wiktionary

Both meanings I feel are apposite.

Can someone please explain how calling people parasites is not a bannable offence?

Now you really are getting off topic McNulty, maybe start a thread asking.

Perhaps it is not bannable because it isn't a swear word and it is a word that is being used, by me, to concisely describe the way I feel about people who pay for a TR.

Perhaps I will be banned for it. Who knows? Who cares? Not me buddy. Don't lose sleep over it.

I hope that helps.:}

I am only acquainted with 2 RYR Pilots; both young, and both funded 100% by parents.

These parents very willingly supported the TR Training hence my inability to use the term 'parasite'. These aviation savvy fathers viewed RYR as the only way to progress their childs career within the 'shelf life' of a frozen ATPL.

Nothing was stolen. It was a calculated act of support. To wit; a knowledge based decision.

But; the ubiquitous factor is the 'Old Money' / Bank of Mum and Dad that funds this fast track career move. The concept of 'Speedy Boarding' being applied to wannabe pilots.

However mercinary, I am really glad that the RYR fixation continues and the wannabe army has been unable to move laterally into other area's of aviation.

do banks really offer loans based on the expected earnings on a crookfield contract in todays climate.incredible

while saying everyone one who does the ryr tr is a parasite is probably a bit rough im sure there are many that do it off their own backs and in a way that is quite admirable in my opinion

i think alot of the pilots ryr seem to hire are quite young.alot i guess must be therefore be doing it via the bank of mummy and daddy.while there is nothing wrong with this either it is a little frustrating to those that dont have that options because its then no longer a battle of just who is the most suitable candidate for the job but rather whose daddy has the deepest pockets. but lets face it, its not just the occasional young pilot who needs daddy and mummy to help them.so many of these pathetic z list celebrities live off daddys reputation too.its unfortunately becoming a regular thing. i do wonder though at what point in their lives to these people learn to stand on their own 2 feet.does daddy give them a deposit for a house,buy little johnny a car maybe.not sure i'd be comfortable with that

hang on in here the beak and others like you.i didnt have daddys money to fall back on for a tr and i got there in the end in a crap jobs market.it just means you have to show alot of initiative when it comes to finding a job, rather than asking poppy to write a cheque for 35k and then feed you while you do the rating.makes it that bit sweeter when you do get there as you know it was all your doing:ok:

apologise for my appauling spelling must ask daddy to buy me some specs!

Blackred1443, a fair post and the spelling was pretty good. I completely agree with you - I am a million miles from a socialist, make that a million light years but I do think people should work for what they have. I appreciate though that mum and dad will always do their best to help - mine would happily have done too, they offered several times but I honestly would never have trained to be a pilot on the collateral in their house. I can safely say, right now, I am incredibly relieved, happy and relaxed that I didn't take up their kind offer.

The Glide, I have genuinely paid for all of my training myself with the help of an unsecured loan - mine isn't crippling me though. Bar a couple of trial lessons at the very beginning I have paid for every flying hour I have had myself. As for my rating, the airline paid for it, in full.

I will be watching it, nodding my head in approval.:E

MOL. Hmmm, contract long haul pilots on minimum wage with a Shannon pre-clearance of US immigration. I can actually see Ryanair Longhaul working.

WWW

Thebeak- So what? Would you like a medal for that? Are you implying that because someone has had financial help from banks, parents...etc they are less intitled to a job than you because you have paid with your own money? You sound like your trying to be some kind of martyr.
Im a "young" pilot but have worked hard all my "young" life. I could write out a very long list of achievements for you however its none of your business how I came to be in the position I am in today - although I will say I had financial help with the TR because I wanted to take up a great offer, otherwise id probably be on here 24/7 asking for advice and listening to people like you. I dont regret my decision at all - been doing this job for a while now and had my TR paid off in 5 months.
Unfortuantely the days of the airline paying for your rating are all but gone. The sooner people realise that in the long run it makes no difference, the sooner they will be in the right hand seat. simple.

Fortunately I disagree with you.

The paid for £75k course and the paid for £33k type rating were the result of an unsustainable credit boom largely based on an unsustainable inflation of house prices. Its over. Its part collapsed with more collapsing to follow.

In time the ability of Wannabe to self fund 6 digit training costs will abate as credit is withdrawn. Very VERY few 20 or 30 year olds have access to £100,000 in cash. They may have access to it via personal or parental credit but that is NOT the same as access to it in cash.

As unemployment rises and the economic situation deteriorates airlines will not require new pilots so thankfully supply will meet demand. The flying schools will be the ones squeezed to death. So many fixed costs, such cut throat competition, dwindling demand - toxic.

WWW

I wouldn't mind a medal commandB if you are offering? A platinum one which says I didn't have someone else pay for my training on it.:E

I was asked a question:

And I answered it.

You paid for your £33K TR + interest and an early payment charge in 5 months? Smells like either bull:mad: or you are going to say you had the VAT back and claimed back in tax blah blah blah - how much tax were you paying? In fact, how much are you being paid in order for your tax to pay that back? In 5 months? Who paid for your rent and your food and your car and your training debt while you were paying of the 33K debt? Not being a parasite again are you? Your figures don't stack up. Pipe down. People really do have to be careful in listening to the pipe dream myths you lot come up with, you make it all sound so easy and care free. Little dreamer.

I agree with you on that WWW, very shortly things are going to change.

im not sure he wants a medal for it.again its only my opinion but when you hear people explaining how they became a self made millionaires it sounds quite admirable and inspiring.now im not claiming getting a pilots licence is anywhere approaching that level of achievement.at the same time there is an achievement and for me and i repeat only my opinion it doesnt quite have the same ring to it as mummy and daddy paid for it.

im not suggesting either that everyone is like this but the danger is if you get it easy it loses alot of its value.no real sacrifice involved.it also makes it an elitists career, only for those that can afford to throw money at it.surley not what you want.one can also lose perspective.

i am curious to know how someone pays for a tr with the interest on top of other training loans and survives on what ryr pay initially. 5 months would certainy be an achievement.

may i just ask one question and please dont bite my head off but those that have relied on parental help, why didnt ye wait save, sacrifice and fund the dream on your own.and beore someone tells me its not possible,it is.not a loaded question

also because parents generally want he best for their kids do they now put themselves in serious debt.i imagine quite a few families are in the crap financially trying to fund juniors dream right now.maybe junior needs to learn to get a job, save then pay for it himself.right now id love a four bed house unfortunately like most of the world you have to be patient rather than banging of the folks door.

Exactly Blackred, the most successful people are self made. The way I see it is a bit like this, the difference between someone who pays for their own training or takes their own debt and someone who has their parents back them is like the difference between someone who goes to the gym and puts in the time with resistance training and someone who goes and gets plastic surgery. The Ryanair guys and girls are nothing but fake, plastic tarts - it's all for show (except for the likes of TT of which there are some). Saving and working is resistance training - it's not easy, you hit walls and you'll 'feel the burn'.

Why don't they wait? Because they can only understand small numbers. It's a deep flaw in the less intelligent and something I used to 'exploit' people in my previous work. They don't understand a figure like £175000 of debt. And they never see it. It isn't really there. They do understand a £2400 a month pay cheque over a £1100 a month one though and they do understand 60 Euros an hour over £8 and hour and that is what they focus on. They don't understand the concept of opportunity cost. They don't appreciate the exponential effect their actions will have on their wealth in the future.



[quote]Opportunity cost or economic opportunity loss is the value of the next best alternative foregone as the result of making a decision.[/QUOTE]

I'd recommend really thinking about that in your decison making. Take into account terms and interest. Try and extrapolate a line into the future. Do everything you do for the right reasons. There is nothing more you can do.

It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes...... we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions - especially selfish ones.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Good old beak, still spending his entire life on pprune trying to belittle ryanair pilots in a horribly arrogant manner. Oh well i guess i would be bitter too in the company of people who fly 737s if i was stocking shelves in tesco for a living.

Get a life man, go find a girlfriend or something.

I guess I would be too if I was in that position. I must add to my post, the Ryanair pilots I don't like are the 18-22 year olds who have done a tin pot degree/no degree, done a full integrated course and then the TR with Ryanair. Those are the 'pilots' I speak of.

On the topic of what you have said McNutjob, What is the effect of going from flying to a more professional job than shelf stacking, earning say 50K a year and then trying to come back to flying? How will the airlines react given the current times? Would they have a problem with that and see it as turning my back on flying? It is a case of having to do what I have to do. My full intention is to come back to flying......In fact I will be coming back to flying. Would it matter or would it be irrelevant to an airline?

Calm down. £30,000 in 5 months is £6,000 per month. Considering you dont even get paid for pretty much the first month, and factor in interest and early repayment charges, you would need to be earning even more to pull off this miraculous feat.

Or mabe you are on your own payscale?

Either that, or you are talking absolute BS.

Even some dodgy tax fiddling which seems to be the BRKFLD way can't make the figures add up.

This is not a personal attack. It's just that you are displaying the classic, mainly young, wannabe characteristic of making up rubbish to make you feel you have made the right chioce in getting your mum/dad/self into upto £100,000 of debt. And to show for it all, you have a very weak 'contract' with a company which has another contract with a company who has THE worst terms and conditions that the EU has to offer.

If you want The Beak and the likes to stop banging on, then a hefty slice of realist honesty would be the best cure.

If you said somthing along the lines of;

'look, I was lucky enough to have the resources which allowed me to get my fATPL and then pay for a type rating which is shamelesly 50% overpriced. I weighed up the options and decided to go for it. I owe those who paid for me a lot of thanks and I hope that it works out for me and them.

However, the job is far from ideal, the company treats you poorly and it is not for everybody. You will be paying this off for over a decade. Think carefully.'

Then I think there would be very little room to critisize you.

But you come out with dangerous rubbish. So you you get hammered.

It's called confirmation bias.

EK

Hear, hear EK4457, you have said it perfectly. Really very nicely put.

Very interesting debate again. May I please hijack this thread for a moment?

I spoke to a RYR pilot the other day who told the story of a guy who got chopped during line training. According to him the line trainig captain just stood up to him after a flight or a sim session and told him he would not make it. The guy basically got the boot. No reasons given. If this is true, holy sh:mad:, it scares the crap out of me, considering the personal investment this guy had made. But why did he get kicked out?

My question to those flying for RYR, in all honesty (I know it happens with any airline, not too often though I would think!) have you witnessed this before and what are the reasons why some people do not make it all the way to line release? I mean I would think that the sim ride gives the training captain a rough idea as to how good the applicant's flying is and whether he will pass the TR course and what comes after that. So why is it that a very few do fail later on? Are they arrogant? Do they not do what they are being told?

no one has ever failed traiing without being given reasons.complete b"£$%^&

Is the beak really flying for an airline?
 

Hey beak......!

Do you really fly for an Airline?This forum is supposed to be an informative sight not some bl...dy chat room!

All I can say is you must have plenty of time off, to spend writing the rubbish we have to read on here!Why don't you find a hobby or something?Maybe fishing so you can sit talking to yourself all day!:D

Yes people do fail the TR and yes they do fail the base training and yes you can fail line training.

Paying for a TR is no guarantee whatsoever of reaching the necessary standard. Just the same as if the airline was paying.

Ryanair set a very high standard that has to be achieved. It needs to know it's people are the right people as a hull loss resulting from poor pilot ability would be very very serious.

For the ground school you simply need to know your stuff and answer the questions. For the sim and beyond it is about ability to perform. You are given chances but if you need extra sim sessions then you pay for them, and they're not cheap. You can still get chopped. It's not unusual to hear of people failing the base (circuits) training but the company will put them back in the sim and give them another crack at it. They don't charge for that. It's in their interest at this stage to try and get you through.

When I did my TR in 2007 one person from my course was chopped and also someone on the course behind us. Both were down to lack of ability. Pure and simple. Plenty of chances were given. Remedial training was given. Do bear in mind that your sim buddy is having to accompany you through all this even though of course they don't pay for the training they don't need. You do.

I also know of someone who was chopped during line training (easyjet) who simply couldn't land with any sort of consistency. They were given a lot of sectors but to no avail.

There is no chance that a trainer will just chop you for no reason. You'll be thoroughly debriefed. Written records are kept and it's all discussed with both you are your sim buddy together. If there's any chance of you getting chopped you'll be only too well aware of why and that it's a possibility.

Once you're in to any airline the struggle is not over. You will have to work harder than you would believe to make the grade. It's not easy but it does get easier and of course one day you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Get the job. Get your head down and enjoy it.

command b paid off a 30+k loan in 5 months as a junior f/o in ryr....please explain how exactly

i make that some where between 6 and 7 k a month.nice one:ok:

No I am not currently flying for an airline unfortunately. I have done in the past and will do in the future.

Yes you can fail the TR at Ryanair, I know of a guy who did because he couldn't land the plane in the base training, he just kept floating it. Poor bugger.

As for the hobby thing, unfortuantely mine is flying so it's a bit of a sad time for me.:{

not that i know anything about your mates case beak, i do find it strange that he was kicked out during base cx due to floating.any base cx i have done ( as an f/o)seem to be a bit of a jolly, the sim cx and line training are times when you really need to make the grade.but i always thought that with a base check unless you really cock it up you should be ok.unless of course this floating was getting into tail srape terrritory. i doubt landing distance was going to be a problem unless it was in a limiting airfield which woud be more than a little unfair.never can tell with ryr though:ok:

Poor bugger how? If he kept floating it then he's obviously not cut out for the particular role then is he, and I'm sure the decision was made so a hundred odd 'innocent' pax wouldn't pay for his inabilities in the future!

I wouldn't normally comment on rubbish like this, but come on :p

p.s. flying doesn't count as a hobby if you 'are/were/will be in the future/delete as applicable' a professional pilot!

Ta!

I think I need a drink...
 

OMG, all these couch flyers, face palm....ever heard of being humble in your ignorance ?

Its no problem at all not knowing about the subject at hand, but when you pretend to....

- some people pay for training by their own means some borrow from a bank and some from parents..so what

- no one gets cut from training without extra sessions, long chats, and a session with a senior instructor.
had a mate on our TR course required an extra session and had to do the base training 3 times to get through, and is now a very competent FO.

- as for cutting someone who floats on a particular base training session...give me a break, things like that can be fixed, attitudes on the other hand are more difficult to remedy..

I have been with FR for 2 1/2 years and have found the training department to be nothing but fair and helpfull...so please lay off the scaremongering..

signing off in exasperation

Goose :ugh:

Poor bugger because he spunked a load of cash.

Aerobatics and GA flying class as a hobby if I want them to class as a hobby thanks.

I know two guys who failed the base check with ryanair first time around, the first guy was put back in the sim at ryanairs expense and then passed the base check second time around. The other guy was also put back in the sim but failed it again a second time - so ryanair put him back in the sim again at their own expense and he passed on his 3rd attempt.

Ryanair dont drop people out of the blue if they have a couple of bad sim sessions thats ridiculous - if someone gets dropped from a tr course or line training/a base check you can be sure they were given every opportunity to succeed.