Military Pilot to Civilian Flying?
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CAA Accreditation scheme
Hi,
Any idea whether the CAA gives any credit to non UK ex-military pilots as well? I am an ex- Indian Airforce pilot, flown jets and trainers and was a QFI. I have an ICAO ATPL and would like to convert it to a JAA?
Thanks for any responses.
Any idea whether the CAA gives any credit to non UK ex-military pilots as well? I am an ex- Indian Airforce pilot, flown jets and trainers and was a QFI. I have an ICAO ATPL and would like to convert it to a JAA?
Thanks for any responses.
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There is no credit beyond flying hours to non-UK Qualified Service Pilots. You will need to check LASORs to discover exactly what hoops you will have to jump through.
Scroggs
Scroggs
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Thanks anyway scroggs. Guess i will have to finds the hoops...er...loops myself. The Lasors too is a bit hazy on the subject of license conversion and credits.
One more question...
Can I get an FI(A) rating based on my ATPL if I do the type training (which I think is essential to instruct) and a pre flt test too.....
.... or do I have to basically start from scratch and do a PPL (A) and then a FI(A)?...???
Thanks in advance for any responses.
One more question...
Can I get an FI(A) rating based on my ATPL if I do the type training (which I think is essential to instruct) and a pre flt test too.....
.... or do I have to basically start from scratch and do a PPL (A) and then a FI(A)?...???
Thanks in advance for any responses.
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Hi
Does anyone have the latest direct email for the military specialist at the CAA?
I have emailed the general email for CAA lincensing but was wondering if there was a better one to use.
Thanks in advance
Does anyone have the latest direct email for the military specialist at the CAA?
I have emailed the general email for CAA lincensing but was wondering if there was a better one to use.
Thanks in advance
I completed the CPL/IR whilst serving as an engineering officer in the RAF. I was fortunate that I had an overseas staff tour which wa not, ahem, particularly busy giving me plenty of time to study for the exams. Wouldn't have thought your background would count against you. Being in the Navy might though 
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Completing CPL/IR while working full time
Yep it is possible.
I did all my ATPL theory CPL, ME, FI, and IR all at weekends and during annual leave from my full time job as a project engineer. Just find and FTO that has the flexibility to work with your availability.
I started the IR on the 6th December 2005 and completed on the 18th April 2006, (could have been sooner if it wasnt for the weather). I flew friday afternoons the odd saturday (when the weather was crap and couldnt teach PPL so I would go and do some IR sim work) all day sunday and I only took 2 days leave from my full time job. It was a busy time for me but I still managed a first time pass. So all in all it do-able but hard work
.
All the best Mint
I did all my ATPL theory CPL, ME, FI, and IR all at weekends and during annual leave from my full time job as a project engineer. Just find and FTO that has the flexibility to work with your availability.
I started the IR on the 6th December 2005 and completed on the 18th April 2006, (could have been sooner if it wasnt for the weather). I flew friday afternoons the odd saturday (when the weather was crap and couldnt teach PPL so I would go and do some IR sim work) all day sunday and I only took 2 days leave from my full time job. It was a busy time for me but I still managed a first time pass. So all in all it do-able but hard work
.All the best Mint
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A very good friend of mine got chopped from military training and he didt get as far as you , he left joined the police then left and did he integrated course , he now flying foe excel and happy as a pig in smelly stuff
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Dilemma - Im currently serving in the UK military as non-pilot aircrew with 7 years until my contract ends. I hope to pursue a career as an airline pilot when I leave. I will be self funding and obviously have to balance cost with standard of training and economy of effort. My dilemma is as follows - I see 3 options open to me to fulfil this,
1. Start my PPL this year followed shortly by a Night rating, IR, some hours building to take me to the minimum for a CPL and a FI rating and obviously the ATPL theory. Over the next few years hours build some more then a year before leaving the service get all the MCC, ME rating for when I leave so that I can leave with a fATPL.
2. Save enough money over the next 7 years for an integrated course that I can complete when I leave.
3. A pick and mix of the first 2 options. obtain a PPL and IR/night rating ASAP so i can hours build possibly abroad and save over the next 7 years. When I leave then start an Integrated course (or a basterdised version) of the ATPL theory, CPL, MCC, ME rating.
I obviously have flying hours but not as a pilot. I appreciate that this will count for next to nothing, however this will stand me in good stead for the basics of flying training. This aside what are the pro's and con's to each of my options. The big disadvantage that i can see with waiting is the cost of flying training, fuel, exam fees etc. increasing through time. My gut feeling is that the flight instructor route is a sensible option and this can help part way to funding my training as i can earn money for instructing while building hours.
It seems a complete minefield, i have searched the forums before I am advised to do this. There are plenty of threads for pilots but nothing for military non-pilots.
Many thanks in advance and feel free to PM me if this seems more appropriate.
Heights good
1. Start my PPL this year followed shortly by a Night rating, IR, some hours building to take me to the minimum for a CPL and a FI rating and obviously the ATPL theory. Over the next few years hours build some more then a year before leaving the service get all the MCC, ME rating for when I leave so that I can leave with a fATPL.
2. Save enough money over the next 7 years for an integrated course that I can complete when I leave.
3. A pick and mix of the first 2 options. obtain a PPL and IR/night rating ASAP so i can hours build possibly abroad and save over the next 7 years. When I leave then start an Integrated course (or a basterdised version) of the ATPL theory, CPL, MCC, ME rating.
I obviously have flying hours but not as a pilot. I appreciate that this will count for next to nothing, however this will stand me in good stead for the basics of flying training. This aside what are the pro's and con's to each of my options. The big disadvantage that i can see with waiting is the cost of flying training, fuel, exam fees etc. increasing through time. My gut feeling is that the flight instructor route is a sensible option and this can help part way to funding my training as i can earn money for instructing while building hours.
It seems a complete minefield, i have searched the forums before I am advised to do this. There are plenty of threads for pilots but nothing for military non-pilots.
Many thanks in advance and feel free to PM me if this seems more appropriate.
Heights good
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The historic choice has been option 1 because, once you are qualified as an FI, you get to build your hours as an instructor at the station flying clubs. Watch out for the timings, though. You will have only 36 months from your last ATPL theory pass to get your IR issued otherwise you'll have to do all the exams again.
Option 2 would be difficult for me. I don't know how anyone could save at the rate of £10,000 a year. That sort of money usually comes from property.
Option 3 would be a waste of money. If you eventually did an integrated course you'd only get very limited credits and, if you took a modular route and held off the ATPL or CPL groundschool until you left, you wouldn't be able to both instruct and hours build at the same time, you'd have to pay for it.
Option 2 would be difficult for me. I don't know how anyone could save at the rate of £10,000 a year. That sort of money usually comes from property.
Option 3 would be a waste of money. If you eventually did an integrated course you'd only get very limited credits and, if you took a modular route and held off the ATPL or CPL groundschool until you left, you wouldn't be able to both instruct and hours build at the same time, you'd have to pay for it.
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MFWF
I got chopped from the Wallop Basic Rotary Course in '86.
I now have a Command on 757/767 with a UK charter operator.
Age may be a problem but that also brings maturity. Your experience working in a disciplined team will go well too. You will also need all your self discipline to get your head down and get it all done as I guess the Wardroom is as much a distraction as the Mess was!
Also, look carefully at what Alex has said because you need to have a solid time frame to avoid getting caught by the various expiry limits. On that note, Alex, I never did get to work for Emirates despite them having the fittest crew. LGW, Perf A brush up, '97 ish! Worked as a motivator for me anyway!
I got chopped from the Wallop Basic Rotary Course in '86.
I now have a Command on 757/767 with a UK charter operator.
Age may be a problem but that also brings maturity. Your experience working in a disciplined team will go well too. You will also need all your self discipline to get your head down and get it all done as I guess the Wardroom is as much a distraction as the Mess was!
Also, look carefully at what Alex has said because you need to have a solid time frame to avoid getting caught by the various expiry limits. On that note, Alex, I never did get to work for Emirates despite them having the fittest crew. LGW, Perf A brush up, '97 ish! Worked as a motivator for me anyway!
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Alex, many thanks for your comments and advice. Option 1 would appear to be my best option from a financial, currency and experience point of view. I can see very little wrong with this option to be honest. A few questions though -
1. What are instructional hours viewed like by the airlines?
2. Are they actually taken into account when considering total time?
3. What is employment like as a FI, no point pushing very hard for the qualification if I can’t actually get employment.
4. If my memory serves me correctly to earn money as a FI I need to have a CPL and as a result of this do I need an IR and CPL theory. If CPL theory is needed surely doing the ATPL theory would be more sensible?
5. Would working as a FI manage to keep all my currencies up to date i.e. ATPL/CPL theory (don’t want to have to repeat 5 yrs later) IR, Yearly check etc.
6. What sort of wage can I expect as a FI (just so I can add this to my spreadsheet for my budget)
7. What are the likely costs of this option from start to finish? I anticipate roughly £30k-£35k minimum.
8. What are the eligibility criteria for FI and IR instructor?
9. What is the likely time span from start to my first student if I have most weekends available? I know weather and aptitude play a big part in this however the aptitude part im confident I have. 4 days of tests with the RAF have told me this and I already know how to calculate IR holds, read TAPS, Tech, weather, etc. etc.
Option 2 – Money is not a major issue, I have £35k in equity and looking to save/invest £4.8k a year for the next 7 yrs. This figure is a minimum for planning purposes, when I deploy (approx 6 months a year) I will be able to save £1500 a month. I’m working on a worst case scenario though of £400 a month. The big problem I can see doing this is actually affording to live while training.
Option 3 sounds the worst of the all 3. I had pretty much discredited this option from the start.
Thanks again guys
Heights good
1. What are instructional hours viewed like by the airlines?
2. Are they actually taken into account when considering total time?
3. What is employment like as a FI, no point pushing very hard for the qualification if I can’t actually get employment.
4. If my memory serves me correctly to earn money as a FI I need to have a CPL and as a result of this do I need an IR and CPL theory. If CPL theory is needed surely doing the ATPL theory would be more sensible?
5. Would working as a FI manage to keep all my currencies up to date i.e. ATPL/CPL theory (don’t want to have to repeat 5 yrs later) IR, Yearly check etc.
6. What sort of wage can I expect as a FI (just so I can add this to my spreadsheet for my budget)
7. What are the likely costs of this option from start to finish? I anticipate roughly £30k-£35k minimum.
8. What are the eligibility criteria for FI and IR instructor?
9. What is the likely time span from start to my first student if I have most weekends available? I know weather and aptitude play a big part in this however the aptitude part im confident I have. 4 days of tests with the RAF have told me this and I already know how to calculate IR holds, read TAPS, Tech, weather, etc. etc.
Option 2 – Money is not a major issue, I have £35k in equity and looking to save/invest £4.8k a year for the next 7 yrs. This figure is a minimum for planning purposes, when I deploy (approx 6 months a year) I will be able to save £1500 a month. I’m working on a worst case scenario though of £400 a month. The big problem I can see doing this is actually affording to live while training.
Option 3 sounds the worst of the all 3. I had pretty much discredited this option from the start.
Thanks again guys
Heights good
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I got chopped very early in AAC selection despite being better looking and from a better Corps than Yeoman!
I then spent the next three years split between watchkeeping and staff duties. It was perfectly possible to get the exams done around a 9-5 exsistance. Think I only worked 2 hours a night Mon- Fri and had weekends mostly off.
Book a GS course 6-7 months away to act as a focus, review the material finish the progress tests. (do not try to learn all the material off by heart!!) The brush up course is then the key.
You can use resettlement leave in your last 12 months in the green bit of the forces. I did a FI rating straight away instructed weekend to build hours. Completing an IR in my last three months of service worked well.
HP how's the electric jet?
I then spent the next three years split between watchkeeping and staff duties. It was perfectly possible to get the exams done around a 9-5 exsistance. Think I only worked 2 hours a night Mon- Fri and had weekends mostly off.
Book a GS course 6-7 months away to act as a focus, review the material finish the progress tests. (do not try to learn all the material off by heart!!) The brush up course is then the key.
You can use resettlement leave in your last 12 months in the green bit of the forces. I did a FI rating straight away instructed weekend to build hours. Completing an IR in my last three months of service worked well.
HP how's the electric jet?
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Mike, good god man have you taken leave of your senses!! A commissioned officer...... I bloody well am not, I work for a living 
I am actually a Puma crewman. I got from your post that your were an ex herc driver. Im not sure how much exposure you have had to rotary ops but as a crewman we are exposed to a lot more of the piloting side than our fixed wing brethern. Its a result of the good old Puma days of 1 pilot and a crewman. Most Crewmen can and do work out holds, RT calls, Nav, point to point nav, flight planning, read TAPS, operate some of the avionics etc. etc. As a consequence I'm pretty clued up on most "pilot" things and very much doubt there will be many unexpected surprises during flying training. The thing i obviously do lack is "stick time" and the hours that correspond to this.
Heights good
I am actually a Puma crewman. I got from your post that your were an ex herc driver. Im not sure how much exposure you have had to rotary ops but as a crewman we are exposed to a lot more of the piloting side than our fixed wing brethern. Its a result of the good old Puma days of 1 pilot and a crewman. Most Crewmen can and do work out holds, RT calls, Nav, point to point nav, flight planning, read TAPS, operate some of the avionics etc. etc. As a consequence I'm pretty clued up on most "pilot" things and very much doubt there will be many unexpected surprises during flying training. The thing i obviously do lack is "stick time" and the hours that correspond to this.
Heights good
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Military ressettlement
Hi all
The time has come to say enough is enough i want to progress with my flying,having been told your to old for the army air corps (the whole reason i joined the mob)but still young enough to make in civy life.
am looking at doing my resettlement in the states for a PPL Revalidation and building up some hours at same time has anyone got any experiance with this process and using Ormond Beach as training provider?
is there other places or recomendations for other FTOs that are on the ball when it comes to ressettlement?
sorry i prob should of posted this to military forum but i am mainly trying to ask thoose that are ex mil.
as army ressettlement includes following.
£534 individual ressetlement grant or £1000 ELC
up to £175 SLC towards exam and tests ( and can only be used if not claimed ELC for same course)
£55 per day accomadation
£21.20 daily subsitance allowance (Must be reciepts)
£5 overnight expences(must be reciepts)
spread over 14 dAYS Resettlement leave
i am thinking of useing the ELC for hour building thus would have to be a seperate course spread over my remaining six days resettlement leave.
The time has come to say enough is enough i want to progress with my flying,having been told your to old for the army air corps (the whole reason i joined the mob)but still young enough to make in civy life.
am looking at doing my resettlement in the states for a PPL Revalidation and building up some hours at same time has anyone got any experiance with this process and using Ormond Beach as training provider?
is there other places or recomendations for other FTOs that are on the ball when it comes to ressettlement?
sorry i prob should of posted this to military forum but i am mainly trying to ask thoose that are ex mil.
as army ressettlement includes following.
£534 individual ressetlement grant or £1000 ELC
up to £175 SLC towards exam and tests ( and can only be used if not claimed ELC for same course)
£55 per day accomadation
£21.20 daily subsitance allowance (Must be reciepts)
£5 overnight expences(must be reciepts)
spread over 14 dAYS Resettlement leave
i am thinking of useing the ELC for hour building thus would have to be a seperate course spread over my remaining six days resettlement leave.
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Have you tried Multiflight, Leeds
Not ex military myself but know that Multiflight have a Resettlement Programme advertised on their website. Also their facilities at Leeds are pretty good.
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that's right, many people think an ex-military pilot can jump from a fighter plane to a commercial plane in 2 days.
In fact, they have to do a "civil" commercial license, MCC,...
I have eared some employers don't like military pilots cuz they fly alone, and take risks,...
at this time, even if you have 20'000 hours of Mirage, they still ask 500h on Airbus.
In fact, they have to do a "civil" commercial license, MCC,...
I have eared some employers don't like military pilots cuz they fly alone, and take risks,...
at this time, even if you have 20'000 hours of Mirage, they still ask 500h on Airbus.
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Dont think you will find anyone leaving the UK armed forces at the moment struggling to find a job.
Most Mil guys have to accumulate 2000hrs TT and 1500hrs P1, now that may not sound a lot to most LCC types, but that is 10 years flying in the military and there is a lot to be said about quality vs quantity. Not to mention airmanship built up over that period. This is why mil guys are attractive to airlines.
Quite frankly mr dartagnan, that is bolleaux to make such a generalisation. Not all Mil types fly alone, and none I have met take unnecessary risks. I think you are confusing ability to operate to an aircraft to its limits to achieve an aim vs 'taking risks'.
Most Mil guys have to accumulate 2000hrs TT and 1500hrs P1, now that may not sound a lot to most LCC types, but that is 10 years flying in the military and there is a lot to be said about quality vs quantity. Not to mention airmanship built up over that period. This is why mil guys are attractive to airlines.
I have eared some employers don't like military pilots cuz they fly alone, and take risks,...
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I agree with dirty sanchez, but is also true that the airline between the experience of 12 years military flyng even multicrew 2200 hrs TT and the guy with the rich dad that can spend up to 50000 euros (like windjet ask in Italy) with 300hrs TT, choose the second one. Low cost company have found another way to get money other than the tickets. Maybe I should start looking for 50000 euros instead of a job
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I have eared some employers don't like military pilots cuz they fly alone, and take risks,...
I am often asked what the difference is and it is quite simple. In the military you are required to complete a complex training scheme within a set time frame with a minimum number of repeated sorties (i.e. after a failed trip). The aim of this training is to enable the pilot (single seat or multi crew, helicopter or jet) to achieve a designated task by all achieveable methods using the assets available to their operational limits if required whilst maintaining the safety of the aircraft and crew.
The self sponsered civilian pilot operates an aircraft well within its safety zone limitations which are a further set of limits imposed before the operational limits of the aircraft are reached. The airline pilot flys the aircraft to achieve the safest, most cost effective and most comfortable flight for revenue generating passengers.
The major difference in the training is that most military pilots have completed a high stress, demanding, complex training structure with one shot only. Many (not all) civilian pilots can throw money at the problem and just keep hacking through.
As to what the airlines want these days it's difficult to say. The cynic in me wants to say that many LoCo's are taking the young boys because they are less likely to kick off about the degraded terms and conditions that infect the industry.
In my carrier there are a vast amount of ex-military pilots of both fixed and rotary background who bring a broad expanse of knowledge both in command and as an FO.
SiSio, I know the Italian system as well having a couple of helo friends down there next to Genoa, the best advice I could give is keep applying. With Alitalia in meltdown it could be a difficult couple of years.
Good luck
W2P