BAC Express recruiting
Join Date: Sep 2000
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It may only be another 5 or 6k for a 737 rating but a shed is a smaller step up from a light twin, for a low hours pilot, you may get a job on a shed with just the rating. 737 operators may want more than just a rating, preferably some commercial experience or time on type as well.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I can see both sides of the argument. Companies should train their people if they want to employ them. On the other hand, smaller organisations just may not have the "spare" capacity to afford to train people and then have them leave soon after completion. Recently a new FO left our place after (I think) 3 days. Imagine the cost to the employer if he hadn't bought the rating? So, I can see why the likes of Emerald and BAC Express charge for ratings.
I can't really see why easyJet and Ryanair charge for their 737 ratings. I would assume they'd get their return on investment.
This is something to consider. You've finished your IR. 6 months has gone by and no job or any thing. In 6 months' time you'll have to do a renewal. You are now considering doing an Instructor rating. So, you'll be spending a reasonable amount of cash for a "maybe". I would weigh up the Shed type rating option at this point.
The Shed time has been very useful to the folk who got laid off after Gill went under.
The Shed and the like are very good aircraft to get good experience on. It's mainly hand flying with very little automation. Besides, flying freight is fun. Freight doesn't complain about the landings.
I can't really see why easyJet and Ryanair charge for their 737 ratings. I would assume they'd get their return on investment.
This is something to consider. You've finished your IR. 6 months has gone by and no job or any thing. In 6 months' time you'll have to do a renewal. You are now considering doing an Instructor rating. So, you'll be spending a reasonable amount of cash for a "maybe". I would weigh up the Shed type rating option at this point.
The Shed time has been very useful to the folk who got laid off after Gill went under.
The Shed and the like are very good aircraft to get good experience on. It's mainly hand flying with very little automation. Besides, flying freight is fun. Freight doesn't complain about the landings.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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A sensible Bond should surely protect the company when recently employed aircrew leave prematurely. The maximum allowed under law would be more than adequate to cover the total cost of training on the smaller turboprops such as the Shed, F27, ATR etc.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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The heaps of junk that I was refering to were the F27s not particularly the SD360. However, BAC charge far too much for a type rating on either of these aircraft types: Streamline used to charge around £6,000 for the SD330/360 rating & yet with BAC it is around £11,000.
In year one you will have flown between 600-900 hours with BAC eh, Tosh McCaber? Don't talk B0110X! it would take a line pilot with BAC about three years to rack up that amount of hours, especially for the Guys based out of EDI.
As I said: a really crappy little outfit & one to be avioded if you have the choice. If you don't then only touch them if you are not the one paying for the rating & then you can leave them asap & believe me you'll want to!!
In year one you will have flown between 600-900 hours with BAC eh, Tosh McCaber? Don't talk B0110X! it would take a line pilot with BAC about three years to rack up that amount of hours, especially for the Guys based out of EDI.
As I said: a really crappy little outfit & one to be avioded if you have the choice. If you don't then only touch them if you are not the one paying for the rating & then you can leave them asap & believe me you'll want to!!
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I'm speaking from absolute first hand experience, Tosh. They are a truly dreadful airline, they think nothing of you as an employee or your life outside of work. If you are BHX or EDI based you'll be clocking up a staggering 200-250 hours per year if you are lucky. You fly at night with no wx radar & usually no autopilot (F27). They make promises that they frequently break to the point of downright lying: & the thing that I hate the most is that they overcharge guys like yourself for next to useless type ratings. BAC have leeched off the pilot shortage & preyed on those at the bottom of the career food chain.
I am now fortunate enough to work for a much larger passenger airline &, yes, because of my time at BAC I was able to get onto the next rung of the ladder, so to speak, but there are two major differences. 1) I did not cough up any cash for a type rating from them &, 2) times were different a couple of years back & there were more pilot jobs out there to move on to with minimal turboprop time.
As I said: if BAC is your first commercial job then fair enough, you have to take what you are given, unfortunately, but I say again: DO NOT GIVE THIS OUTFIT ANY OF YOUE HARD EARNED!!!
I am now fortunate enough to work for a much larger passenger airline &, yes, because of my time at BAC I was able to get onto the next rung of the ladder, so to speak, but there are two major differences. 1) I did not cough up any cash for a type rating from them &, 2) times were different a couple of years back & there were more pilot jobs out there to move on to with minimal turboprop time.
As I said: if BAC is your first commercial job then fair enough, you have to take what you are given, unfortunately, but I say again: DO NOT GIVE THIS OUTFIT ANY OF YOUE HARD EARNED!!!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Emerald aka Streamline have taken on another 2 new FO's from their hold pool.
The cost has gone up from £6000 but what they will charge in the future is any one's guess.
One point of difference is that Streamline's rating was done on the SD 330 which gives you both types while the BAC Express's rating is done on the SD 360.
The cost has gone up from £6000 but what they will charge in the future is any one's guess.
One point of difference is that Streamline's rating was done on the SD 330 which gives you both types while the BAC Express's rating is done on the SD 360.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I can verify the Potter's view on the number of hours that BAC guys at Edinburgh flew(info a couple of years old), but I knew a guy who did only 200ish hours a year. No good if you are older and ambitious! Soft option if you aren't though. Horses for courses yet again................!!
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<<Streamline's rating was done on the SD 330>>
I thought 'WA was going to the Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden as an exhibit
Mentioning hours, I heard of a guy who flew 899h 42m with Ryanair last year. Some hours building!! Am guessing they will figure out how not to let him get away with the 18 minutes next year.
I thought 'WA was going to the Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden as an exhibit
Mentioning hours, I heard of a guy who flew 899h 42m with Ryanair last year. Some hours building!! Am guessing they will figure out how not to let him get away with the 18 minutes next year.
Join Date: May 2000
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Actually Snail, the type rating can be done on the SD360 and it covers you for the 330 also. All it takes is a half hour differences check consisting of a few circuits in different configs.
Oggie. As for WA, I can safely say that it is still alive and well and flying 5 nights a week. I only know this because I fly it 5 nights a week and am the last current F/O in the UK on the 330. In fact Emerald keep themselves with such few crew, my captain and I are the only current crew on the aircraft. I don't know what happens if we go off sick for example, and frankly I don't care!
If anyone knows the current price Emerald are charging for the shed rating I'd be keen to find out so I can way it up against the bond!
Oggie. As for WA, I can safely say that it is still alive and well and flying 5 nights a week. I only know this because I fly it 5 nights a week and am the last current F/O in the UK on the 330. In fact Emerald keep themselves with such few crew, my captain and I are the only current crew on the aircraft. I don't know what happens if we go off sick for example, and frankly I don't care!
If anyone knows the current price Emerald are charging for the shed rating I'd be keen to find out so I can way it up against the bond!
Last edited by hushkit77; 11th Jul 2003 at 19:12.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Hushkit, I know about the conversions. I was offering a possible explanation as to the 2 company's different costs.
WA is alive. Fortunately I don't have to fly it any more cos it's on the EDI-BFS route. Ahahahaah.
WP is the dead one. Now sitting at Sarfend minus some engines.
WA is alive. Fortunately I don't have to fly it any more cos it's on the EDI-BFS route. Ahahahaah.
WP is the dead one. Now sitting at Sarfend minus some engines.
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From personal experience I can only agree with potter. If you are unlucky and at the bottom of the ladder, it is a start and 500hrs on a S360 could take you anywhere. But the company is tight, does expect miracles, alienates employees, and can treat people very badly. Time spent at BAC can be a start on the flying career ladder, or can be the road to ruin and despair. They have tried to ruin a few peoples careers. There are a lot of very good decent people working there, but their efforts are overshadowed by a few. I would say BAC can be a start to a career, but be very careful. They usually take everyone from the TRTO courses, but they will treat you very badly and if you fall from grace through no fault of your own, they will severely try to hamper your chances elsewhere, irrespective of whether they are just or not. They expect the world from people and offer little in return in terms of consideration and support. But I believe the flying training to be second to none, very good pilots and instructors, and good CP. The flying you do will be well respected. Yes no heaters on some F27, you have to pay your own fire and drill course. And finally if something does go wrong, it is your fault. It is probably no worse than many companies, and the pilots and flying is good, so just be careful, and show understanding to potter, I know where he is coming from and I can't disagree with anything he has said.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Oh dear, BAC are getting a bit of a knocking here.
Got to get off now but will post later;
in general I find posts on pprune rather negative.................. come on guys, lets hear some good things about the job we are all supposed to love.
Got to get off now but will post later;
in general I find posts on pprune rather negative.................. come on guys, lets hear some good things about the job we are all supposed to love.
niknak
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As I said earlier, I don't know much about the individual personel policies of the individual airlines involved here, but I do know that the entire freight market is an extremely cut throat business and very hard work for everyone involved.
I dare say that if you really looked, you may find a freight operator who kisses their pilots goodnight, but they're very few and far between. As for paying for type ratings - not exactly uncommon in any area of the flying market, if you don't like it you don't have to do it.
Finally, I suspect that the vast majority of these posts are from frustrated wannabes or rejected potential crews.
As someone who sits on the other side of the frequency dealing with BAC and others on a daily basis, I have nothing but praise for the professionalism of the crews.
They are often flying into airports at the busiest times, yet we very rarely hear any dissenting voices when things don't go their way, which is more than can be said for the passenger operators..
I dare say that if you really looked, you may find a freight operator who kisses their pilots goodnight, but they're very few and far between. As for paying for type ratings - not exactly uncommon in any area of the flying market, if you don't like it you don't have to do it.
Finally, I suspect that the vast majority of these posts are from frustrated wannabes or rejected potential crews.
As someone who sits on the other side of the frequency dealing with BAC and others on a daily basis, I have nothing but praise for the professionalism of the crews.
They are often flying into airports at the busiest times, yet we very rarely hear any dissenting voices when things don't go their way, which is more than can be said for the passenger operators..
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Do not join a small night freight operation with crappy terms and conditions....and pay for a rating.
Jobs are slowly becoming available again. Do not act in haste and repent at leisure................
Jobs are slowly becoming available again. Do not act in haste and repent at leisure................