First Officer IQ Requirements
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First Officer IQ Requirements
Hello this is Captain Stephen Hawkins. I bring this disturbing news to you after years of research. I have recently become increasingly concerned about the deminishing IQ amongst new members of flight crew. There is a direct correlation between this and the increasing levels of cabin crew paying to become flight crew having completed some sub standard training that Zimbu, my trained circus chimp, could pass.
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Captain Hawkins, or may I call you Stephen? No? Pratsimum may disapprove? Ok, I'm sorry.
Thank you, on behalf of all at Pprune, for making public your research findings. I suspect that many have already come to your research conclusions, without the detailed work. However, it is warming to find someone who has gone to the trouble to refrain from airing an opinion on such a subject, before his research has been completed.
Now we have definitive research proof of declining IQ on the flight deck, does anything need to be done about? And, if so, what? Your learned opinion on the matter would be appreciated.
I look forward to hearing more news about your research work.
Thank you, on behalf of all at Pprune, for making public your research findings. I suspect that many have already come to your research conclusions, without the detailed work. However, it is warming to find someone who has gone to the trouble to refrain from airing an opinion on such a subject, before his research has been completed.
Now we have definitive research proof of declining IQ on the flight deck, does anything need to be done about? And, if so, what? Your learned opinion on the matter would be appreciated.
I look forward to hearing more news about your research work.
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Light blue touch paper and retire
What might surprise some people is the fact that cabin crew can often be better academically qualified than the drivers up front.
What impact would there be on the pass rate of the ground exams etc if the entry level qualifications for an ATPL, & the UK airlines, required graduates with honours only.
This would not apply to qualified military pilots who have already gone through a selection process, and proved themselves to be competent.
This is one of a few professions where training can commence without the appropriate selection process - can Doctors, Lawyers etc choose themselves?
Throwing money at it is not always the best solution.
The "wastage" rate is probably considerable, not to mention the resulting debt it can generate for those who fall by the wayside.
Think long and hard before you invest in yourself.
What impact would there be on the pass rate of the ground exams etc if the entry level qualifications for an ATPL, & the UK airlines, required graduates with honours only.
This would not apply to qualified military pilots who have already gone through a selection process, and proved themselves to be competent.
This is one of a few professions where training can commence without the appropriate selection process - can Doctors, Lawyers etc choose themselves?
Throwing money at it is not always the best solution.
The "wastage" rate is probably considerable, not to mention the resulting debt it can generate for those who fall by the wayside.
Think long and hard before you invest in yourself.
Last edited by ecj; 8th Jun 2003 at 17:02.
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What good is an academic subject that is totally irrelevant to those up front?. Its all about aptitude, the ability to make sound judgements and have a good technical knowledge about their subject, which you aquire during your flight training.Obvoiusly a well rounded education is a must.
Im sorry , but the ability to solve a 3rd order differential equation is of use to the engineers building the aircraft, not those that fly it. Some people I know with good engineering degrees lack common sense and cant even navigate behind the wheel of a car.
I'm sure all those heros flying over the channel shooting down Germans 60 years ago didnt have to be academically gifted, and Chuck Yeager wasnt even a college graduate.
How precisely does one get a career in aviation at the age of say 36 without paying for it?..If you know of a way.If so let me know..
There are many aviators whom havent had a formal qualification, but as long as they pass the required standards set by the CAA etc that is all that matters
From what I gather anyone going into higher education these days has to pay their way. If you pay your way and you are not good enough , you fall by the way side and fail ...simple as that..
O levels as entry requirements yes, but a degree, a somewhat out dated elitist concept
Im sorry , but the ability to solve a 3rd order differential equation is of use to the engineers building the aircraft, not those that fly it. Some people I know with good engineering degrees lack common sense and cant even navigate behind the wheel of a car.
I'm sure all those heros flying over the channel shooting down Germans 60 years ago didnt have to be academically gifted, and Chuck Yeager wasnt even a college graduate.
How precisely does one get a career in aviation at the age of say 36 without paying for it?..If you know of a way.If so let me know..
There are many aviators whom havent had a formal qualification, but as long as they pass the required standards set by the CAA etc that is all that matters
From what I gather anyone going into higher education these days has to pay their way. If you pay your way and you are not good enough , you fall by the way side and fail ...simple as that..
O levels as entry requirements yes, but a degree, a somewhat out dated elitist concept
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Quite well put Simon if I may say so.
Several colleagues of mine whilst on the ATPL groundschool struggled considerably with the requirements of the course and they had degrees. The ATPLs, the flight testing and the money are all hurdles that filter. They are the current system and although not perfect do a reasonable job.
Knowing about sedimentary rock formations is interesting, even to me (being a bit of a dumbo without a degree) but ultimately doesn't prove anything when facing a depressurisation at 40,000ft.
I grew up in the 1970s and an enduring image of academics was the OU on BBC2 early on a Saturday (or was it Sunday?) morning. Now if you are suggesting to me that that lot should be the benchmark for pilot entry requirements then I think I'll give Michael Jackson a ring to see if Bubbles is free for an Alicante at the weekend..................
PP
Several colleagues of mine whilst on the ATPL groundschool struggled considerably with the requirements of the course and they had degrees. The ATPLs, the flight testing and the money are all hurdles that filter. They are the current system and although not perfect do a reasonable job.
Knowing about sedimentary rock formations is interesting, even to me (being a bit of a dumbo without a degree) but ultimately doesn't prove anything when facing a depressurisation at 40,000ft.
I grew up in the 1970s and an enduring image of academics was the OU on BBC2 early on a Saturday (or was it Sunday?) morning. Now if you are suggesting to me that that lot should be the benchmark for pilot entry requirements then I think I'll give Michael Jackson a ring to see if Bubbles is free for an Alicante at the weekend..................
PP
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ecj,
I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you, I work alongside recent graduates and some of them, actually quite a few of them, have problems with basic grammar and sentence construction.
And as for some of the professions you cited, I'm sury many Pprune regulars will have their own experiences ! !
Cunningplanyoufool
I think your attitude as banal, moronic and out-dated and I hope I never have the misfortune of flying with you.
I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you, I work alongside recent graduates and some of them, actually quite a few of them, have problems with basic grammar and sentence construction.
And as for some of the professions you cited, I'm sury many Pprune regulars will have their own experiences ! !
Cunningplanyoufool
I think your attitude as banal, moronic and out-dated and I hope I never have the misfortune of flying with you.
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ummm ... interesting.
I regularly fly (as CC) with people from a whole range of backgrounds ... lawyers, PhD’s, Nail technicians, etc etc.
To be honest the background for flight crew is irrelevant. The training given by the airlines covers for the (expected) emergencies.
However.... As a graduate myself I think that whilst my degree offers as much use as a chocolate fireguard whilst in-flight ... the LIFE experiences I gained as a student are invaluable. The degree was fun but it’s more what happens to you as a person during those years that the airlines are keen to capitalise on.
Now the debate as to what airlines look for in a candidate has been done to death, but I am sure that life experience and maturity is now valued much more than it was in the past. The simply fact is that every airline is different and trying to match what you think x airline wants is wasted energy.
My advice ... do what you are happy doing. Enjoy and achieve in your arena. If your an 'A' Level guy with a skill in motorbikes .. great! .... If your a PHD with an interest in human dissection ... great!
At the end of the day, the licence is the licence ... a standard everyone must meet. The additional stuff that shapes you as a person is just that ... it shapes YOU!
If you think everyone that flies are robotic clones then think again. Pilots who have NOTHING in common frequently end up flying 4 sectors together saying nothing but the required ops. blurb!
I regularly fly (as CC) with people from a whole range of backgrounds ... lawyers, PhD’s, Nail technicians, etc etc.
To be honest the background for flight crew is irrelevant. The training given by the airlines covers for the (expected) emergencies.
However.... As a graduate myself I think that whilst my degree offers as much use as a chocolate fireguard whilst in-flight ... the LIFE experiences I gained as a student are invaluable. The degree was fun but it’s more what happens to you as a person during those years that the airlines are keen to capitalise on.
Now the debate as to what airlines look for in a candidate has been done to death, but I am sure that life experience and maturity is now valued much more than it was in the past. The simply fact is that every airline is different and trying to match what you think x airline wants is wasted energy.
My advice ... do what you are happy doing. Enjoy and achieve in your arena. If your an 'A' Level guy with a skill in motorbikes .. great! .... If your a PHD with an interest in human dissection ... great!
At the end of the day, the licence is the licence ... a standard everyone must meet. The additional stuff that shapes you as a person is just that ... it shapes YOU!
If you think everyone that flies are robotic clones then think again. Pilots who have NOTHING in common frequently end up flying 4 sectors together saying nothing but the required ops. blurb!
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Capt Stephen Hawking,
Ok here we go! Firstly apart from being a complete loser you obviously have never worked in the airline industry or you have worked since the Wright brothers. I was self-sponsored at <b>the</b> renowned school. Of which, I paid entirely for myself with NO selection. I got a job with <b>the</b> major airline within 6 days of graduation, with nothing other than 'A' Levels and 19 years on this planet. 6 years on ... I have been enlisted to management plus flying the pride of our fleet. I don't have a degree. I was accepted as a pilot by the RAF when their were only two places going (confirmed by RAF OASC) but decided to turn it down for family circumstances.
However, enough $hit. My point being I am NOT academic. However I am nonetheless very successful.
Over the last six years I have flown with incredibly academically qualified cabin crew who seven times out of ten have a degree (in things other than "cake decorating") some of which with PhD's. If you think that it is not pure talent plus motivation that equals a good airline pilot then it proves the airline selection sorts out the rest, if not the 6mnth sim checks do.
Your post therefore indicates that you have never flown an aircraft above 50 tonnes in your life. If you have then your airline needs to get you in for some CRM training.
Waiting for your response Capt. S Hawkings?!
Ok here we go! Firstly apart from being a complete loser you obviously have never worked in the airline industry or you have worked since the Wright brothers. I was self-sponsored at <b>the</b> renowned school. Of which, I paid entirely for myself with NO selection. I got a job with <b>the</b> major airline within 6 days of graduation, with nothing other than 'A' Levels and 19 years on this planet. 6 years on ... I have been enlisted to management plus flying the pride of our fleet. I don't have a degree. I was accepted as a pilot by the RAF when their were only two places going (confirmed by RAF OASC) but decided to turn it down for family circumstances.
However, enough $hit. My point being I am NOT academic. However I am nonetheless very successful.
Over the last six years I have flown with incredibly academically qualified cabin crew who seven times out of ten have a degree (in things other than "cake decorating") some of which with PhD's. If you think that it is not pure talent plus motivation that equals a good airline pilot then it proves the airline selection sorts out the rest, if not the 6mnth sim checks do.
Your post therefore indicates that you have never flown an aircraft above 50 tonnes in your life. If you have then your airline needs to get you in for some CRM training.
Waiting for your response Capt. S Hawkings?!
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From the other recent posts from Capt. Hawkings, I think it is clear that he is in need of help from the trick cyclists.
His comments are clearly made to irritate you. Probably best not to reply to them.
His comments are clearly made to irritate you. Probably best not to reply to them.
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Yes his other posts are just as idiotic! It's clearly a wind up, either that or the guy suffers from serious ego problems coupled with a tad of jelousy. I think anti-StevenHawkins would be a better name. What a t*sser!
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A CRM nightmare
cunningplanmylord :
When you next have a CRM lesson at Jerez, perhaps you might like to explain to your ground school instructor, and your course, why "women should be banned from the cockpit".
I think you might also find a visit to the trick cyclist helpful.
I hope you have no intention of applying to any UK airline. You would be a CRM nightmare on any flight deck.
If you are in any doubt, ask your flying instructor.
When you next have a CRM lesson at Jerez, perhaps you might like to explain to your ground school instructor, and your course, why "women should be banned from the cockpit".
I think you might also find a visit to the trick cyclist helpful.
I hope you have no intention of applying to any UK airline. You would be a CRM nightmare on any flight deck.
If you are in any doubt, ask your flying instructor.
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several guys in the RHS for major airlines failed miserably their studies
they are not even good flyers. Then you read in the newspapers there was crash. poor passengers.
dont ask me what i think of airline selection. i want to stay polite.
they are not even good flyers. Then you read in the newspapers there was crash. poor passengers.
dont ask me what i think of airline selection. i want to stay polite.
