CTC McAlpine/easyJet/JMC Sponsorship Selection
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This is going to be my only other post on the subject, because I don't want to end up with the thread see sawing backwards and forwards, from two viewpoints.
Keo, you say that the training is not free, and that it is expensive.
You pay a bond. When you get work (which it is in CTC's best interest to get you work, so I'm pretty sure that they will work extremely hard to do so) you get the bond paid back to you. Its that simple. You do not pay for the training. And therefore it isn't expensive.
What I think you are trying to draw in is how expensive the move is, if you take the salary "reduction" into account. This only matters if you get a job. And the chances of getting a job are greatly improved by a sponsorship scheme. Its that simple.
Feel free to PM me, if you want to carry on the discussion.
Cheers,
Caracul
Keo, you say that the training is not free, and that it is expensive.
You pay a bond. When you get work (which it is in CTC's best interest to get you work, so I'm pretty sure that they will work extremely hard to do so) you get the bond paid back to you. Its that simple. You do not pay for the training. And therefore it isn't expensive.
What I think you are trying to draw in is how expensive the move is, if you take the salary "reduction" into account. This only matters if you get a job. And the chances of getting a job are greatly improved by a sponsorship scheme. Its that simple.
Feel free to PM me, if you want to carry on the discussion.
Cheers,
Caracul
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I too don't want to get bogged down in this but it seems fairly clear cut.
The 60k is repaid (inc. interest if a bank loan was needed...which I imagine most of us would make use of...!). So there's no loss there. The issue is the 100k or so which is deducted from your salary over 7 years.
Caracul,
I disagree when you say because the 60k is repaid the training is free and the only reason for the 100k deduction is the price for a getting on the job ladder. I think that's what you're getting at.
The 100k or so is quite obviously deducted (by the airline) to cover their investment in you (i.e. the training, CTC will have received a large sum from the airline to train you). The question is simply: Do you think the whole thing's worth this reduction?
Consider that an integrated ATPL course might cost around 50k (I know they vary quite a bit), this 100k doesn't seem excessive considering that with CTC you ALSO get:
- Accommodation/other benefits whilst in training.
- Travel to/from NZ.
- A TYPE RATING!!!
- The biggest guarantee possible of a jet job (as Caracul points out)
50k for the these extras? I personally think, in the current climate, this is reasonable. In an ideal world, airlines would train cadets from scratch for free and see it as an investment in their future blah blah blah but this doesn't happen. Tbe question is: how does this compare to the alternatives? Pretty well I'd say.
I think all of the maths mentioned is fine in term of getting an idea of total cost to you etc. That's not really debatable. The issue is: whether YOU think it's worth it? Yes, apply. No, choose another route.
My 2p. Best of luck to all those who apply Hopefully I'll be among your ranks in a few months 
Mav
The 60k is repaid (inc. interest if a bank loan was needed...which I imagine most of us would make use of...!). So there's no loss there. The issue is the 100k or so which is deducted from your salary over 7 years.
Caracul,
I disagree when you say because the 60k is repaid the training is free and the only reason for the 100k deduction is the price for a getting on the job ladder. I think that's what you're getting at.
The 100k or so is quite obviously deducted (by the airline) to cover their investment in you (i.e. the training, CTC will have received a large sum from the airline to train you). The question is simply: Do you think the whole thing's worth this reduction?
Consider that an integrated ATPL course might cost around 50k (I know they vary quite a bit), this 100k doesn't seem excessive considering that with CTC you ALSO get:
- Accommodation/other benefits whilst in training.
- Travel to/from NZ.
- A TYPE RATING!!!
- The biggest guarantee possible of a jet job (as Caracul points out)
50k for the these extras? I personally think, in the current climate, this is reasonable. In an ideal world, airlines would train cadets from scratch for free and see it as an investment in their future blah blah blah but this doesn't happen. Tbe question is: how does this compare to the alternatives? Pretty well I'd say.
I think all of the maths mentioned is fine in term of getting an idea of total cost to you etc. That's not really debatable. The issue is: whether YOU think it's worth it? Yes, apply. No, choose another route.
My 2p. Best of luck to all those who apply
Hopefully I'll be among your ranks in a few months Mav
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Hey guys,
Had an enjoyable but tiring day two down in Bournemouth yesterday. Met some nice guys too. Thankfully i have got through to stage 3 so have to go down there again soon!
Good luck to everybody else!
Alex
Had an enjoyable but tiring day two down in Bournemouth yesterday. Met some nice guys too. Thankfully i have got through to stage 3 so have to go down there again soon!
Good luck to everybody else!
Alex
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Well done Busz!
I am getting up there for stage 2 next Tuesday! Can't wait!
Any useful tips that might come handy?
Anything specific about the tests? and what are discussion topics about?
Can you give me an approximate idea at what time was it over (just to help me finalise my travel arrangments)...
Thanks
And wish you all the best!
Jeremy
I am getting up there for stage 2 next Tuesday! Can't wait!
Any useful tips that might come handy?
Anything specific about the tests? and what are discussion topics about?
Can you give me an approximate idea at what time was it over (just to help me finalise my travel arrangments)...
Thanks
And wish you all the best!
Jeremy
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Hey Mooney,
Are you talking about stage 2? If so, the question that I remember was something like
"If a plane is descending at 180ft/min how many minutes does it take to descend 450ft?"
Or something along those lines. Nothing technical, just division and multiplication...
If you are talking about a different stage, then I apologise...and retreat into a corner...
Are you talking about stage 2? If so, the question that I remember was something like
"If a plane is descending at 180ft/min how many minutes does it take to descend 450ft?"
Or something along those lines. Nothing technical, just division and multiplication...
If you are talking about a different stage, then I apologise...and retreat into a corner...
Join Date: Apr 2004
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STAGE 2 info
OK, had stage 2 today (18/5/04) all of those there were great people. Sadly I didn't make it, but thought I would post a little info for those who may need it in the future.
GETTING THERE
I stayed at Christchurch - Stor Villa B&B for £25 - very good/clean - 5 minute walk from train station, about 10 minute taxi drive from CTC.
GENERAL
You need ALL your ORIGINAL educational certificates, passport etc - read the email that tells you what you need!
Rod Wren and the team are great people - all very helpful. The most important thing is to relax and be yourself!
There was around 14 people there, who were split into two groups alternating the activities.
Wear a suit, shirt, tie etc guys. Not sure about what ladies wear :-)
APTITUDE TESTS
These are done via computer joystick, mini-keyboard.
things like keeping the cross-hairs centered etc are pretty simple, but also things like multi-tasking, number sequences, shapes also come into play. Know your right from left would also be helpful! The tasks are intensive and under time pressure - my advice would be to take the absoloute max time to read the info, do the practice questions and remember how they want you to enter the info i.e. do you push 1 or 2 etc. You can't go back if you screw up the first time!
Also make sure you are comfortable etc as you can stop during a test. Go to the loo first!!
You need to be numerate for these - this is where I fell down - you also need to be able to do multiple things at once, with good precision at each.
GROUP DISCUSSION
They will give you a list of subjects, you need to write some comments on your views of each - they will collect this in, including any rough work!
Each person then gets 5 minutes to present their views of the subject - they are probably looking for specifics here similar to GCSE English talking and listening. Remember, they dont care what you are talking about - just how you are doing it!
You then have 20 minutes to come to a group conclusion on the subject - remember to be active but not overpowering in the discussion - they dont want people just sitting in the sidelines.
The key is to keep everyone on the subject, listen to others, etc etc
The final stage of the group discussion is a 15 minute mental maths test - you can do rough work, but have to show it all on the page they collect in. Know things like basic long multiplication/division as well as conversions like degC-degF, $-£ etc. Its multiple choice so an approx answer often is a clue.
Thats really all there is to it. If you are made of the right stuff, it shouldn't pose too much of a challenge. Its about both personality and aptitude so being good at only one might not be enough!
They also let you speak to the current students which is intersting.
If anyone wants any more info, I would be happy to help.
I would love to hear how the rest of those there today got on.
Hope this helps and good luck!
GETTING THERE
I stayed at Christchurch - Stor Villa B&B for £25 - very good/clean - 5 minute walk from train station, about 10 minute taxi drive from CTC.
GENERAL
You need ALL your ORIGINAL educational certificates, passport etc - read the email that tells you what you need!
Rod Wren and the team are great people - all very helpful. The most important thing is to relax and be yourself!
There was around 14 people there, who were split into two groups alternating the activities.
Wear a suit, shirt, tie etc guys. Not sure about what ladies wear :-)
APTITUDE TESTS
These are done via computer joystick, mini-keyboard.
things like keeping the cross-hairs centered etc are pretty simple, but also things like multi-tasking, number sequences, shapes also come into play. Know your right from left would also be helpful! The tasks are intensive and under time pressure - my advice would be to take the absoloute max time to read the info, do the practice questions and remember how they want you to enter the info i.e. do you push 1 or 2 etc. You can't go back if you screw up the first time!
Also make sure you are comfortable etc as you can stop during a test. Go to the loo first!!
You need to be numerate for these - this is where I fell down - you also need to be able to do multiple things at once, with good precision at each.
GROUP DISCUSSION
They will give you a list of subjects, you need to write some comments on your views of each - they will collect this in, including any rough work!
Each person then gets 5 minutes to present their views of the subject - they are probably looking for specifics here similar to GCSE English talking and listening. Remember, they dont care what you are talking about - just how you are doing it!
You then have 20 minutes to come to a group conclusion on the subject - remember to be active but not overpowering in the discussion - they dont want people just sitting in the sidelines.
The key is to keep everyone on the subject, listen to others, etc etc
The final stage of the group discussion is a 15 minute mental maths test - you can do rough work, but have to show it all on the page they collect in. Know things like basic long multiplication/division as well as conversions like degC-degF, $-£ etc. Its multiple choice so an approx answer often is a clue.
Thats really all there is to it. If you are made of the right stuff, it shouldn't pose too much of a challenge. Its about both personality and aptitude so being good at only one might not be enough!
They also let you speak to the current students which is intersting.
If anyone wants any more info, I would be happy to help.
I would love to hear how the rest of those there today got on.
Hope this helps and good luck!
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Ballyboley,
I'm sorry to hear that you didn't make it this time but IMHO you sound like your simply going to move on to the next opportunity - which I think is cracking attitude to have in this business. Sincerely all the best mate.
I'm sure everyone reading will join me when I say thanks for making the effort to give people some kind of heads-up on what to expect...it can't hurt
Mav
I'm sorry to hear that you didn't make it this time but IMHO you sound like your simply going to move on to the next opportunity - which I think is cracking attitude to have in this business. Sincerely all the best mate.
I'm sure everyone reading will join me when I say thanks for making the effort to give people some kind of heads-up on what to expect...it can't hurt
Mav
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Hey all,
Got the email from CTC - Thrilled 
Sorry to hear that Bally
I wonder how many others got through? Good bunch of guys (and girl!), I wouldn't mind sharing a cockpit with any of them!
I'd just like to reiterate what Balley said, it's hard, but worth it. If you have the aptitude you will pass. There are no minimum or maximum of people passed for any of the stages - if everyone makes the grade, everyone goes to the next stage!
My thanks to everyone who ran the course, loads of info to be absorbed!
Top stuff
Matt
Got the
email from CTC - Thrilled Sorry to hear that Bally
I wonder how many others got through? Good bunch of guys (and girl!), I wouldn't mind sharing a cockpit with any of them!I'd just like to reiterate what Balley said, it's hard, but worth it. If you have the aptitude you will pass. There are no minimum or maximum of people passed for any of the stages - if everyone makes the grade, everyone goes to the next stage!
My thanks to everyone who ran the course, loads of info to be absorbed!
Top stuff
Matt
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Hey,
listen to Ballys advice. The selection has changed a lot since the descriptions given at the start of this thread.
The only thing you can do to prepare for stage 2 is a bit of maths revision. The rest is innate. Thankfully I got through, I am delighted
Answering the previous question. The new airlines on board want their names kept hush hush. Currently they are looking for graduate cadets from the scheme but they are all currently taken by EasyJet and Thomas Cook. They are yet to commit to sponsoring cadets prior to embarking on the course.
However I know a guy who is near the end of the scheme. It took him 5 months to get a job, when you only have six months in which to do so. By the skin of his teeth!
listen to Ballys advice. The selection has changed a lot since the descriptions given at the start of this thread.
The only thing you can do to prepare for stage 2 is a bit of maths revision. The rest is innate. Thankfully I got through, I am delighted
Answering the previous question. The new airlines on board want their names kept hush hush. Currently they are looking for graduate cadets from the scheme but they are all currently taken by EasyJet and Thomas Cook. They are yet to commit to sponsoring cadets prior to embarking on the course.
However I know a guy who is near the end of the scheme. It took him 5 months to get a job, when you only have six months in which to do so. By the skin of his teeth!
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Just to get a view of where people are along the selection process, and also how many of the people going are ppruners, what stage is everyone at? Also if you are going for a selection day sometime soon, when are you going, just in case others are going as well.
Bally - Unlucky mate, but I would like to echo M4v3r1ck stance. With a view like that, you are sure to make it in the end. Good luck mate, and keep plugging away.
Mattd and mooney, well done. Good luck for the next stage (mooney - it was obviously the help I gave you about descent rates
)
Bally - Unlucky mate, but I would like to echo M4v3r1ck stance. With a view like that, you are sure to make it in the end. Good luck mate, and keep plugging away.
Mattd and mooney, well done. Good luck for the next stage (mooney - it was obviously the help I gave you about descent rates
)
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Glad to hear you made it to stage 3 Mattd and Mooney!
Well, I did not make it!! I am definitley bitter but that does not even come close to meaning that it's the end of it!! I will keep pushing till I manage to find some other oppotunity!!
Ballyboley could not have explained the day better!
Maths test was very easy - not to worry about, group discussion
flows easy as well!! I must have screwed everything in the aptitude tests!!!
I found the last test, controlling that joystick, counting numbers backwards and keep an eye on the shapes so frustrating!
the keft and right hand thing was VERY frustrating! time limits put much pressure on me and i guess that's where i started panicking a bit ans started losing my concentration!!
so whoever's going to stage 2 soon, just keep calm and focused...i know that it is much more easier than said but that's the trick!!
So, unfortunately for me, there will be no stage 3 for me.....and consequently no more of an excuse to visit england again!!
hey, the guys who were there were great!!
Mattd...thanks once again for the lift back to southampton......that avoided me so much hassle and trouble...
in fact I managed to catch my flight that night!! was working next morning at 6am however, need to earn back the money spent for stage 2!! ahh..well
Thanks Mattd, Wish you all the luck for the future!!
take care buddy!
wish all the luck to the others as well!!
caw caw
Jeremy
Well, I did not make it!! I am definitley bitter but that does not even come close to meaning that it's the end of it!! I will keep pushing till I manage to find some other oppotunity!!
Ballyboley could not have explained the day better!
Maths test was very easy - not to worry about, group discussion
flows easy as well!! I must have screwed everything in the aptitude tests!!!
I found the last test, controlling that joystick, counting numbers backwards and keep an eye on the shapes so frustrating!
the keft and right hand thing was VERY frustrating! time limits put much pressure on me and i guess that's where i started panicking a bit ans started losing my concentration!!
so whoever's going to stage 2 soon, just keep calm and focused...i know that it is much more easier than said but that's the trick!!
So, unfortunately for me, there will be no stage 3 for me.....and consequently no more of an excuse to visit england again!!
hey, the guys who were there were great!!
Mattd...thanks once again for the lift back to southampton......that avoided me so much hassle and trouble...
in fact I managed to catch my flight that night!! was working next morning at 6am however, need to earn back the money spent for stage 2!! ahh..well
Thanks Mattd, Wish you all the luck for the future!!
take care buddy!
wish all the luck to the others as well!!
caw caw
Jeremy