CAE easyJet MPL 2020

[Confidential]

I'm not going to discuss the market, I'm sure your ears are full of every tom dick and harry making predictions of something nobody really understand.

But my advice to everyone is to wait until end of next week. Long story short EZY is in the process of number crunching this coming week after uk pilots offered their preference to go part time to save jobs. BALPA thinks compulsory redundancies could be avoided as the result. The final outcome could potentially have an impact in your decision making.

Best of luck to you all and our thoughts are with you...

[Dct_Mopas]

To add to confidentials advice to hold on and see what happens next week with regards to ezy redundancies. That is all true and correct, however if redundancies are largely avoided that may actually lead to a longer wait until ezy recruit again.

In the scenario that redundancies are avoided then that means the vast majority of first officers (and captains) will be part time. So any expansion of the airline operations will be managed through people going from part time to full time again. It’s going to be a long while until recruitment occurs that is for sure.

[Confidential]

FlyingGreek

You are so full of yourself. People have different circumstances in life and make decisions accordingly. Just because you reached a conclusion doesn't make you right and everyone else "dumb" or "naive" for selecting another path in training.

No disrespect to your superpowers but no-one else apart from you could've expect a global disaster like this. I was one of those "dumb" people you refer to who did my training with CTC and was tagged with an airline before I even finished my training. I knew full well the actual cost was 60k but was happy to fork out double that because i knew that was the cost of having and keeping a job after. Thanks to Training Bond Scheme offered by CTC, I'm now sitting on a 60k+ redundancy package if they want to get rid of me. All of the sudden I'm not so stupid or naive am I?

I wish you success and compassion in your adventures

[Groundloop]

All you need to do is look into an MPL and ask yourself, what if the worst happened and the airline pulled the job, could i apply to other airlines? If the answer is a big fat no then maybe just maybe its not the smartest option?

The answer is NOT a "big fat no". You would have to be trained in the new airline's SOPs - which every new starter at an airline has to do anyway.

[polskiland]

Originally Posted by Groundloop

The answer is NOT a "big fat no". You would have to be trained in the new airline's SOPs - which every new starter at an airline has to do anyway.

It's a big fat no mate. Don't kid yourself around

[parkfell]

Once the MPL is issued, how does that differ from a fATPL pilot with a CPL/IR; both with the identical type rating so far as operating in the RHS?

The reduction in the MPL course light ac training compared to the CPL/IR standard route (integrated / modular) is irrelevant for a FO in the RHS.

BA Cityflyers employ FTE trained MPL FOs (or did until C-19 impacted)

I don’t really understand where the difficulty lies, apart by those who don’t have a Scooby about this licence.

[giggitygiggity]

Frankly, airlines aren't going to be hiring for a number of years, 3-4 perhaps? I'd be gobsmacked if easyjet hire so much as a new cleaner before 2023. That means that someone finishing an MPL now would potentially be a minimum of 3 years out of recency by the time that jobs become available. I know that technically recency can be re-validated with a 2hr sim but in what world would an airline hire a pilot that has bungled his way through an LPC 3 times or more and has the sum total of 6hrs of 'flying time' in the previous 3 years. I mean bungled in the nicest possible way, but with a type rating and 12 months off, you'll be going along for the ride in a LPC with a sympathetic trainer. A signature on your paperwork doesn't make you a sky god. That is compared to someone who has a CPL without a type rating, so no recency on type to worry about. They will do a type rating when the time comes, finish the 40hrs to be up-to-date on the A320 as can be. Don't forget, in 3 years time, you'll not be competing with other fresh CPLs anyway, you'll be competing with Thomas Cook, Virgin, British Airways, easyJet captains and first officers with upwards of 10,000hrs!

Anyone considering continuing an MPL (as a white-tail as CAE are trying the hard sell on) is mad if they think that they have any appeal to the airlines. Only a few of them in Europe understand the license, if you don't have an EU passport, there is potentially only 1 company that has any actual experience of MPL zero hours cadets now. The rest of them will flatly ignore you. That is awful probably to read and it isn't the end of the world, but the training department of any decent airline just won't want to take that risk on. You won't be jumping any queues, I think the opposite is probably far more likely.

I apprecieate this advice doesn't help people right at the end of training or those with an MPL, but might help those part way through consider the risk they're taking. Be prepared to spend some serious cash to get yourself saleable. For anyone part way through training, take indefinate leave and reconsider your options down the road. If you have completed it, save some money, then get a MEP rating and do a CPL skills test in a few years time.

[HEJT2015]

Anyone know the average cost of converting an MPL into a CPL?

[Climb150]

Do you expect anyone to answer that question when you have given no details to the context?

[Alex Whittingham]

Quite possibly. A reasonably large group of MPL trainees have the same issue, having lost their sponsers, so somebody should have worked through the costings by now. I would be interested to know.

[Climb150]

These pages are filled with people with either a EU issued MPL with less than 1500 hours, an MPL issued overseas (Qatar usually) and want to convert it and any number of combinations of this. Unless the poster provides co text it is impossible to answer the question.

[planesandthings]

Update

BALPLA held a webinar today on EasyJet MPL Cadets who have had their contracts terminated, cadets were strongly reminded this was not any form of redundancy as they never worked for EZY and that as per their contract this programme always carried risk.

Options still remain to
A) Continue MPL Training and find an operator to self fund/sponsor your training
B) Convert to whitetail ATPL at significant cost, figure still hidden but minimum around 30k (excluding TR)
C) Cut any losses and end training with anything unspent returned.

After much anticipation of advice, BALPAs answer today was "Wait and see" and provided little help to anyone.
A number of cadets are looking at option B/C and at least one is considering filing for personal bankruptcy if things don't improve sometime next year as they will not be able to meet loan payments, some who have completed the ME stage are considering alternative careers.

For once none of this is speculation or hype, amongst everything else the pilot training industry has truly come crashing down taking people with it.

Save your time and money folks, commercial aviation's doors are well and truly closed to newbies and with the second wave and further lockdowns imminent, who knows what will emerge afterwards. Stay safe.

[TerryCherry]

How can you go bankrupt to clear debts if you have parents house on the line for the debt?

Also, what happens if you have less than 1500 hours and easyjet make you redundant? Can you start again with EZY or another airline or do you have to retrain if ever offered employment again?

[Sorath]

I guess if you don't have an open credit with any endorsement you can just go bankrupt.... I asked around some banks in 2019 and if you had a recomendation form the flying school you could get a credit without financial endorsment

[TerryCherry]

The whole thing is setup so you have to offer a guarantor. Parents house or your own house if you have equity. I wasn't aware the flight schools had returned to allowing you to hold the debt like a personal loan.

[Sorath]

Same mistakes are always committed... GFC mortgages ... they were given to people that barely had any income... 2018-2019 was the top of the wave... they just wanted more and more cogs in the machine

[parkfell]

TerryCherry

Clearly if your parents act as your guarantor then their assets are in jeopardy as well. Probably equivalent as joint and several liability.

I don’t understand how 1500 hours flying experience is relevant?

Assuming you are on line (or were) as a FO in the RHS (MPL?) you are in the same boat as a CPL/IR FO in the RHS.

If you return to flying on the same type, the Operator will have a simulator training program prior to the LPC/OPC followed by sufficient line training.

A new type will require a standard issue Type Rating Course etc.

[TerryCherry]

Looks like easyjet making no redundancies. Part time working. I think this means first officer will be on 25k max on new contract. They will barely have any flights each over the winter. Not good for safety. Very nice of those who were safe anyway to give up the money to keep other pilots in jobs though.

[PilotLZ]

Originally Posted by TerryCherry

They will barely have any flights each over the winter. Not good for safety.

But probably still a long way better than having no flights whatsoever for 2 years. This solution was a wise one in terms of training and readiness for expanding the schedule as soon as the circumstances allow to do this on a cash-positive basis. They will have current pilots who haven't had any major gaps in flying and there won't be any bottlenecks in the training system, like I envision for some other companies.

[parkfell]

I understand that there has been a significant deterioration in EZY demand, and CR cannot now be ruled out.