Pilot Apprentice - Jet 2
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Anunaki/Contact Approach
The way that some of you are carrying on makes it sound like this is a con act. It isn't. It is a foot on the bottom of the ladder.
The problem is that today, far too many FATPL holders expect instant gratification and a seat in a jet immediately.
Not everyone can have that. It is a fact of life - supply and demand. In this case, demand (from the 200 hour pilot) far outstrips the available supply (from the airlines). Therefore, schemes like this are out there.
The brutal facts are these: with a FATPL you are not qualified to fly a 737 until you've been trained. With a FATPL, you also are not qualified to work in ops.
So, you may have the bare minimum requirements to apply, but you are not qualified.
So, this is an ops apprenticeship that leads to a pilot job - perhaps it should be advertised thus?
Either way, in a hopeless market, I think this is a fair opportunity.
The problem is that today, far too many FATPL holders expect instant gratification and a seat in a jet immediately.
Not everyone can have that. It is a fact of life - supply and demand. In this case, demand (from the 200 hour pilot) far outstrips the available supply (from the airlines). Therefore, schemes like this are out there.
The brutal facts are these: with a FATPL you are not qualified to fly a 737 until you've been trained. With a FATPL, you also are not qualified to work in ops.
So, you may have the bare minimum requirements to apply, but you are not qualified.
So, this is an ops apprenticeship that leads to a pilot job - perhaps it should be advertised thus?
Either way, in a hopeless market, I think this is a fair opportunity.
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NR,
I have at no point said that as a f-atpl holder you are the jet set.
All I am saying is it is unnecessary to be a f-atpl holder for an ops apprenticeship (which is what this really is), and if it were a pilot apprenticeship - as it claims to be - then the apprenticeship should do as the definition of an apprenticeship states:
I have at no point said that as a f-atpl holder you are the jet set.
All I am saying is it is unnecessary to be a f-atpl holder for an ops apprenticeship (which is what this really is), and if it were a pilot apprenticeship - as it claims to be - then the apprenticeship should do as the definition of an apprenticeship states:
An Apprentice:
1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
2. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
3. A beginner; a learner.
1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
2. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
3. A beginner; a learner.
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Narrow approach,I understand that,What I want it to point out is the fact that people with less than mine (f)ATPL and 250hrs are walking into the right hand seat of the likes of Easyjet's Airbuses as we speak,and thats acceptable,apparently they are ready...so why am I not?hence my comment regarding moving the goalposts.
Contact Approach,I hear what you say.Also,I don't feel like I deserve the instant gratification but you guys have to understand that one will do what its best for oneself.In my specific case,I have been unemployed for a while then back to cabin crew job,and now I have a chance to fly the ATR,so I will and I hope things get better back home in few years so I can come back with some experience under my belt.Not to drift further away from the topic,this is good for someone young and willing to do the office work,but I am sorry I also don't see it as an real apprenticeship but as an attempt to hire cheap office workers.
Also,like instructing,I think it is the sort of job that you need to enjoy doing it,something that you love.You'll always get the lad who cannot be bothered and it is only there because he was promised a Type rating,and that my compromise how the operation is ran I think,perhaps not the route to go.Don't know guys,just my humble opinion.
Good luck to anyone applying
Contact Approach,I hear what you say.Also,I don't feel like I deserve the instant gratification but you guys have to understand that one will do what its best for oneself.In my specific case,I have been unemployed for a while then back to cabin crew job,and now I have a chance to fly the ATR,so I will and I hope things get better back home in few years so I can come back with some experience under my belt.Not to drift further away from the topic,this is good for someone young and willing to do the office work,but I am sorry I also don't see it as an real apprenticeship but as an attempt to hire cheap office workers.
Also,like instructing,I think it is the sort of job that you need to enjoy doing it,something that you love.You'll always get the lad who cannot be bothered and it is only there because he was promised a Type rating,and that my compromise how the operation is ran I think,perhaps not the route to go.Don't know guys,just my humble opinion.
Good luck to anyone applying
Last edited by Anunaki; 5th Feb 2013 at 20:14.
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Narrow approach,I understand that,What I want it to point out is the fact that people with less than mine (f)ATPL and 250hrs are walking into the right hand seat of the likes of Easyjet's Airbuses as we speak,and thats acceptable,apparently they are ready...so why am I not?hence my comment regarding moving the goalposts.
Let me rephrase your own question: How are the experienced guys with tons of time on type supposed to feel when you or a (f)ATPL/250 hour wonder walks into the right hand seat of the likes of Easyjet's Airbusus?
Let me rephrase your own question: How are the experienced guys with tons of time on type supposed to feel when you or a (f)ATPL/250 hour wonder walks into the right hand seat of the likes of Easyjet's Airbusus?
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TheBigD,perhaps you could review some of my posts on this forum and I assure you should approach me with a different attitude.Answering your question,experienced guys shouldn't feel OK about it either,funny that is not the 250hr "wonders" who are taking those jobs anymore(search MPL).And for that ask some of those experienced fellas what they did and what sort of influence they had when the unions went along with that idea?
Also,you weren't born experienced!I only pointed out that I am willing to start from the bottom,and that's what I am about to do!We are way off topic now..
Also,you weren't born experienced!I only pointed out that I am willing to start from the bottom,and that's what I am about to do!We are way off topic now..
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Anunaki,
Congratulations on your job on an ATR. I'm sure you'll do well. Don't put yourself down - you aren't starting anywhere near the bottom on an ATR. There are plenty of people who'd take it....
As or why is it now acceptable for MPL students to get the jobs you'd like? Well, it's always been the prerogative of the airlines to choose whichever candidates they like.
It just so happens that this is the current method. Next week it may not be.
It has always been thus.
Congratulations on your job on an ATR. I'm sure you'll do well. Don't put yourself down - you aren't starting anywhere near the bottom on an ATR. There are plenty of people who'd take it....
As or why is it now acceptable for MPL students to get the jobs you'd like? Well, it's always been the prerogative of the airlines to choose whichever candidates they like.
It just so happens that this is the current method. Next week it may not be.
It has always been thus.
This type of scheme has been around corporate aviation for a long time. I have known quite a few pilots over the years who started in ops for bizjet operators for a period of time before being given a type rating by the company. I don't remember seeing negative comments back then. Is it because this is on "big planes" that people think it is not acceptable?
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I don't have a JOC at present but want to get one asap so I meet the requirements for this.
Can anyone recommend Virtual Flight Centre? £1800 for 12hour course on a 738. Seems like it will give me some great experience but is it too much. CRM offer a course for £700.
Can anyone recommend Virtual Flight Centre? £1800 for 12hour course on a 738. Seems like it will give me some great experience but is it too much. CRM offer a course for £700.
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You're willing to fork out £1,800 to be eligible for a massively oversubscribed ops scheme. Madness. This Industry is in a right mess.
CA.
CA.
Last edited by Contact Approach; 6th Feb 2013 at 12:46.
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CA, I don't see many other opportunities coming up anytime soon for us low hours lot and I can't afford to be flying hours upon hours each month to get my hours nearer 300/500. As previously stated, 'its a foot on the ladder' so why not go get a JOC, what harm will it do.
I've decided with the cheaper course by the way. £700 is what, 4/5 hours in the air? I'd say its more of a boost to the CV than 4 hours especially if I can meet the requirements to apply for Jet2.
I live only 5 mins away from Jet2 HQ so it really would be ideal for me.
I've decided with the cheaper course by the way. £700 is what, 4/5 hours in the air? I'd say its more of a boost to the CV than 4 hours especially if I can meet the requirements to apply for Jet2.
I live only 5 mins away from Jet2 HQ so it really would be ideal for me.
Last edited by benish; 6th Feb 2013 at 13:28.
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I would check with Jet2 about their JOC requirements.
I remember it WAS a min of 16 hours. It may or may not have changed....
I remember it WAS a min of 16 hours. It may or may not have changed....
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Anunaki,
First off congrats on the ATR gig.
Second, you said you are willing to start from the bottom. Sorry man, an ATR gig is not starting from the bottom in this industry. And that is the fault I have with some of you guys with FATPL's - the entitlement feeling. You expect your first gig to be a shiny new jet with 250 hours TT. Starting from the bottom is flight instructing in 100 degree Arizona heat, towing banners, being a diver driver in some of the crappiest equipment out there, etc etc.. 250 hr TT FATPL and getting to fly a ATR is NOT starting from the bottom. With that said, congrats on the job and best of luck
First off congrats on the ATR gig.
Second, you said you are willing to start from the bottom. Sorry man, an ATR gig is not starting from the bottom in this industry. And that is the fault I have with some of you guys with FATPL's - the entitlement feeling. You expect your first gig to be a shiny new jet with 250 hours TT. Starting from the bottom is flight instructing in 100 degree Arizona heat, towing banners, being a diver driver in some of the crappiest equipment out there, etc etc.. 250 hr TT FATPL and getting to fly a ATR is NOT starting from the bottom. With that said, congrats on the job and best of luck
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then the apprenticeship should do as the definition of an apprenticeship states:
Quote:
An Apprentice:
1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
Quote:
An Apprentice:
1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
The instruction - amongst other things, type rating on your 1st jet.
Personally I think its a great opportunity to eventually fly for a seemingly respectable company.
Last edited by packo1848; 15th Oct 2013 at 15:22.