British Airways Future Pilot Programme.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simple answer is that not every job is for everyone. Do your research, check what you want/need from a job and then make your own decision.
Personally I would take issue with Dave Pauls view of the company, my view certainly doesn't match his.
Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't join. If you do join then don't like it, leave.
Personally I would take issue with Dave Pauls view of the company, my view certainly doesn't match his.
Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't join. If you do join then don't like it, leave.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Paris
Age: 37
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everybody,
I'm new on this forum since no french one talks about BA FPP.
In other words, love the thread.
I'm sorry in the answer appears in the last 67 pages of this thread, but is there any statistics about previous graduates from these FTO that were sponsored by BA and actually entered the company? In other words, did BA scheduled well their need of cadet in their last FPPs?
And here's a stupid question but who knows, maybe there's an obvious answer: OAA, CTC or FTE: beside the course location, is there anything that gives the advantage to one of them? BA says "no", but still wouldn't say "yes" if so.
Thanks in advance for any help.
I'm new on this forum since no french one talks about BA FPP.
In other words, love the thread.
I'm sorry in the answer appears in the last 67 pages of this thread, but is there any statistics about previous graduates from these FTO that were sponsored by BA and actually entered the company? In other words, did BA scheduled well their need of cadet in their last FPPs?
And here's a stupid question but who knows, maybe there's an obvious answer: OAA, CTC or FTE: beside the course location, is there anything that gives the advantage to one of them? BA says "no", but still wouldn't say "yes" if so.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gran Bretaña
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cesc, it will depend on the total amount/type of the loan involved. Something that's worth noting, and which has been pointed out a few pages earlier in this thread (posts #1235 and #1237), is that (with the current deal) when payments begin (after the 24 month holiday) they are set at a lower rate for a further 24 months (something like 75% of what the remaining payments will be). Even with the largest possible (BA guaranteed) loan it is covered (give or take a tenner) by the £1000 payments.
This means a number of things. For those taking smaller loans, the £1000 BA are paying on top of their salary could create a surplus for those two years. You could choose to pay extra (even just up to the £1000) per month, hence slightly lowering your payments for the remaining years, or just budget for the slightly better 'salary' created during that period. By the time the payments (with interest) increase (potentially to over £1000 per month for those having taken loans of sufficient size), you would be at a higher point on the FPP pay scale. Even those taking the largest loans will not feel any real impact on their actual salary whilst they are at the lowest points on the pay scale.
Even when having taken the largest loan with the higher rate of interest (i.e. not property secured) it looks very manageable.
Some people may be in a position to make higher payments earlier on, leaving them more comfortable with the later payments and paying back less interest in the long run, others may budget to keep the higher payments until after the initial window. There's a framework, but it's not rigid.
Anyone getting to the final stage will obviously have an opportunity to chat about salaries and bond repayments in more detail with the recruitment team, which will be far more accurate and enlightening than anyone can or will post on here. BA cannot, however, provide anyone with financial advice, they can only make you aware of the possibility of a loan which may be guaranteed by BA. Neither BA nor anyone else can quote you specific numbers about repayments as this will be entirely between you and your finance provider, which in most cases will be BBVA. All BA can or will ask is that you have considered the financial routes and implications involved in taking up a place on the scheme, then effectively pass you BBVA's business card if you want it.
This means a number of things. For those taking smaller loans, the £1000 BA are paying on top of their salary could create a surplus for those two years. You could choose to pay extra (even just up to the £1000) per month, hence slightly lowering your payments for the remaining years, or just budget for the slightly better 'salary' created during that period. By the time the payments (with interest) increase (potentially to over £1000 per month for those having taken loans of sufficient size), you would be at a higher point on the FPP pay scale. Even those taking the largest loans will not feel any real impact on their actual salary whilst they are at the lowest points on the pay scale.
Even when having taken the largest loan with the higher rate of interest (i.e. not property secured) it looks very manageable.
Some people may be in a position to make higher payments earlier on, leaving them more comfortable with the later payments and paying back less interest in the long run, others may budget to keep the higher payments until after the initial window. There's a framework, but it's not rigid.
Anyone getting to the final stage will obviously have an opportunity to chat about salaries and bond repayments in more detail with the recruitment team, which will be far more accurate and enlightening than anyone can or will post on here. BA cannot, however, provide anyone with financial advice, they can only make you aware of the possibility of a loan which may be guaranteed by BA. Neither BA nor anyone else can quote you specific numbers about repayments as this will be entirely between you and your finance provider, which in most cases will be BBVA. All BA can or will ask is that you have considered the financial routes and implications involved in taking up a place on the scheme, then effectively pass you BBVA's business card if you want it.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some facts
I am saddened by some of the discouraging comments currently being posted on this thread. The BA FPP scheme is, in my view, far and away the best flying career orientated, sponsored course available. If you wish to earn a living as a commercial pilot it stands way above the competition, such as it is.
I have been privileged to speak informally with a number of cadets on the first BA course. Surprisingly many are mature, successful professionals, who have been prepared to relinquish senior positions in a variety of fields and convince the BA recruiters of their undoubted enthusism for aviation, but (and it is a big but) they were not previously prepared to follow the self selected route through a training school, only perhaps to find that a fATPL does not necessarily confer employability, even at a time when airlines in the UK may be recruiting from the schools. With self funding there is also an element of self selection.
These cadets applied in the full knowledge that they will never, because of their ages, reach the top of the current BA pay scale, that their starting salary will in some cases be one seventh of what they earned last year, that they will be absent from their families for many weeks during the course and, although they did not know at the time of application, will almost certainly be missing Christmas at home this year. They did it because they want to fly aeroplanes for a living and because they want to fly for BA, in the full knowledge of the sacrifices of time, lifestyle and income they will inevitably experience - and that is what BA saw in them, as well as the many skills they could bring to the airline and to the particular role of captain, for make no mistake, it is potential captains they are selecting.
If the recent detractor of BA on this thread is a bonafide employee I feel very sorry for him/her, as they have obviously made a disastrous career choice. I count myself lucky, in my retired state, not to have to fly with such a disaffected individual.
For those who can ignore the negative posts, if you wish to be a commercial pilot and you can satisfy the application criteria, this is the chance you've been waiting for. If you can demonstrate the skills to successfully complete the course you must then convince BA of your commitment and dedication. On the first course, 95 or so successful candidates from a field of approximately 6500 can feel jusifiably pleased and proud that they achieved this. If you would like to join them you must do the same - I wish you good luck. If you are successful you will be envied by those in other airlines elsewhere - believe me.
I have been privileged to speak informally with a number of cadets on the first BA course. Surprisingly many are mature, successful professionals, who have been prepared to relinquish senior positions in a variety of fields and convince the BA recruiters of their undoubted enthusism for aviation, but (and it is a big but) they were not previously prepared to follow the self selected route through a training school, only perhaps to find that a fATPL does not necessarily confer employability, even at a time when airlines in the UK may be recruiting from the schools. With self funding there is also an element of self selection.
These cadets applied in the full knowledge that they will never, because of their ages, reach the top of the current BA pay scale, that their starting salary will in some cases be one seventh of what they earned last year, that they will be absent from their families for many weeks during the course and, although they did not know at the time of application, will almost certainly be missing Christmas at home this year. They did it because they want to fly aeroplanes for a living and because they want to fly for BA, in the full knowledge of the sacrifices of time, lifestyle and income they will inevitably experience - and that is what BA saw in them, as well as the many skills they could bring to the airline and to the particular role of captain, for make no mistake, it is potential captains they are selecting.
If the recent detractor of BA on this thread is a bonafide employee I feel very sorry for him/her, as they have obviously made a disastrous career choice. I count myself lucky, in my retired state, not to have to fly with such a disaffected individual.
For those who can ignore the negative posts, if you wish to be a commercial pilot and you can satisfy the application criteria, this is the chance you've been waiting for. If you can demonstrate the skills to successfully complete the course you must then convince BA of your commitment and dedication. On the first course, 95 or so successful candidates from a field of approximately 6500 can feel jusifiably pleased and proud that they achieved this. If you would like to join them you must do the same - I wish you good luck. If you are successful you will be envied by those in other airlines elsewhere - believe me.
Last edited by FullTanks; 6th Nov 2013 at 06:17. Reason: Syntax
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: In the SIM
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am saddened by some of the discouraging comments currently being posted on this thread
Too many people losing focus on what this profession is all about. If money is all you think about you are in the wrong game.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: london
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think your post illustrates my point.. If your in your 30's/40's and have the typical responsibilities of a person that age (house, loans, kids?) then you have to have been earning 100k plus a year to be able to afford to not earn a salary for 18 months and then take on 100k of debt?
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hardly hatchet. Your point was that AL was a better scheme than BA. But everything you list as problems if one were to apply for the BA scheme would also be problems if one were to apply for the AL scheme. Indeed it is you who is missing the point; that there's far more to it than money. If anything, FullTanks exemplifies that. If you can't afford to leave your current career; take on debt; study for a couple of years away from family commitments etc, then you can't afford to become a pilot. That has nothing whatsoever to do with one scheme being better than another. Nobody with any sense is suggesting that it'll all be easy and you'll walk into a career earning top money without it affecting your current life greatly. That would be naive in the extreme. But those who want this enough to go out and get it know that already, and a whole lot more. They are driven - not by a desire for money - but by their passion for flying. So for many (myself included) in today's aviation industry, these schemes don't make it easy to become a pilot - but they do make it possible.
And if anyone thinks that dissuading others from applying will improve their own chances they are gravely mistaken. Serious contenders (those who have a realistic chance of making it) have already decided to apply. You might shorten the numbers ever so marginally, but you won't modify the numbers who make up the business end of the applicants.
And if anyone thinks that dissuading others from applying will improve their own chances they are gravely mistaken. Serious contenders (those who have a realistic chance of making it) have already decided to apply. You might shorten the numbers ever so marginally, but you won't modify the numbers who make up the business end of the applicants.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: london
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this is an interesting discussion, but my point was that if BA did want the very best candidates to apply then they should improve the financial aspects of the scheme. ie:
Circa ~ 20% of the population can qualify for a BBVA property backed loan and afford to live during study.
Circa ~ 50% of the population can qualify for a BBVA BA backed loan and still afford to live during study.
Circa ~ 80% of the population can qualify for a BBVA BA backed loan and could afford to live if they were paid during training or took on a smaller loan (ie Aer Lingus 21k) or even if BA guaranteed a larger amount (ie 150k). Examples of jobs that do this include BA Graduate Trainees, Air Traffic Controllers, Train Drivers etc..
The increased scope would improve the quality of the candidates as more people would be eligible.
One last thought. Are those people that are leaving higher paid jobs (Doctors were mentioned) contributing more to society as a British Airways pilot vs their current employment? I would be interested to get peoples perspectives on that...
Circa ~ 20% of the population can qualify for a BBVA property backed loan and afford to live during study.
Circa ~ 50% of the population can qualify for a BBVA BA backed loan and still afford to live during study.
Circa ~ 80% of the population can qualify for a BBVA BA backed loan and could afford to live if they were paid during training or took on a smaller loan (ie Aer Lingus 21k) or even if BA guaranteed a larger amount (ie 150k). Examples of jobs that do this include BA Graduate Trainees, Air Traffic Controllers, Train Drivers etc..
The increased scope would improve the quality of the candidates as more people would be eligible.
One last thought. Are those people that are leaving higher paid jobs (Doctors were mentioned) contributing more to society as a British Airways pilot vs their current employment? I would be interested to get peoples perspectives on that...
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The increased scope would improve the quality of the candidates as more people would be eligible.
One last thought. Are those people that are leaving higher paid jobs (Doctors were mentioned) contributing more to society as a British Airways pilot vs their current employment?
You need to keep this in perspective. It is an apprenticeship opportunity for those who might be interested, driven by commercial interests.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't agree that there is "no such thing as society", but I do think we are a long way from perfection. However, to further discuss that would be to take the conversation off on a tangent. It's not a concern of BA's whether or not someone applying would be better for society in their current role. BA is a business, whose primary goal is to make money. It realises that having high calibre individuals on the front lines makes perfect business sense.
It's difficult to see how increasing the inclusiveness of the programme by widening the financial assistance would guarantee a stronger set of candidates. Having more to choose from usually does get better results, but given that the quality of the chosen few is already extremely high, it could easily be argued the differences at the top are so small and subjectively determinable as to not make much of a difference whether there were more to choose from or not. While it's unlikely BA have the absolute optimal level, the FPP does clearly still acquire very strong candidates in its current form, and therefore there appears little motive to radically change it.
It's difficult to see how increasing the inclusiveness of the programme by widening the financial assistance would guarantee a stronger set of candidates. Having more to choose from usually does get better results, but given that the quality of the chosen few is already extremely high, it could easily be argued the differences at the top are so small and subjectively determinable as to not make much of a difference whether there were more to choose from or not. While it's unlikely BA have the absolute optimal level, the FPP does clearly still acquire very strong candidates in its current form, and therefore there appears little motive to radically change it.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North West
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
I'm currently in Sudan in the middle of cycling Cape Town to London, as such my ability to gain reliable web access is not too good and I have been unable to research as thoroughly as I normally would.
I would therefore be grateful if someone with experience of previous years could suggest when secondary and tertiary selection is likely to take place.
I'm currently in Sudan in the middle of cycling Cape Town to London, as such my ability to gain reliable web access is not too good and I have been unable to research as thoroughly as I normally would.
I would therefore be grateful if someone with experience of previous years could suggest when secondary and tertiary selection is likely to take place.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People forget that BA is a business competing against the likes of RYR. To pay wages during training etc., is simply not affordable and ultimately affects the competitiveness of the airline.
This is a great scheme and hence such debates are basically moot.
If a Dr wants to become a pilot, fair enough. It's a waste of his 5+ years at medical school but we all make mistakes and that mistake was made at age 17. Equally, doing that kind of job is impossible if you don't feel passionately about it. Airline flying is not in that bracket anymore, although you still get the odd pilot that wakes up one morning and hates it/gets scared of flying and can no longer do it.
This is a great scheme and hence such debates are basically moot.
If a Dr wants to become a pilot, fair enough. It's a waste of his 5+ years at medical school but we all make mistakes and that mistake was made at age 17. Equally, doing that kind of job is impossible if you don't feel passionately about it. Airline flying is not in that bracket anymore, although you still get the odd pilot that wakes up one morning and hates it/gets scared of flying and can no longer do it.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Age: 26
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My future
Hi, I'm in my final year of secondary school, about to move on to a levels. In summer 2016 I will be able to apply to a training school, and hopefully join something like BA FPP to train. What sort of opportunities will be around in 2016 do you think, will BA FPP still be running? If not, if I apply straight to something like CTC Cadets, what are the realistic chances of getting employed as an 19 yr old just come out of school and training? Cheers.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: England
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will be applying.
I have wanted to fly since I was a little girl. Money has always been the major issue, but I'm at a point in my life now where I need to grab opportunities like this.
I do see massive problems in terms of where the placements are (at least a 2 hour drive from my home) and the long term abroad placements, but there is no harm in giving it a shot, right?
I have wanted to fly since I was a little girl. Money has always been the major issue, but I'm at a point in my life now where I need to grab opportunities like this.
I do see massive problems in terms of where the placements are (at least a 2 hour drive from my home) and the long term abroad placements, but there is no harm in giving it a shot, right?
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do wish whenever a mod removes a post they at least explain why... 
It was a serious (albeit perhaps a little pedantic) response to seb.
Seb: Basically it's impossible to predict your chances of employment as a CTC graduate in a few years. You might be the best candidate on the planet, in which case your chances are high. Or you might be fairly average, in which case your chances are as slim as the next guy. BA seem to suggest that the FPP will run until 2016, so that's a potential opportunity for you, but there are no guarantees. I'd not bank your future on it - make a plan B.
Lady: I think it would be virtually impossible to live a two hour car journey away from the training centre of your choice and expect to do well on the course. You'd be exhausted from all the driving and it would eat into your evening study time (big time)?
It was a serious (albeit perhaps a little pedantic) response to seb.Seb: Basically it's impossible to predict your chances of employment as a CTC graduate in a few years. You might be the best candidate on the planet, in which case your chances are high. Or you might be fairly average, in which case your chances are as slim as the next guy. BA seem to suggest that the FPP will run until 2016, so that's a potential opportunity for you, but there are no guarantees. I'd not bank your future on it - make a plan B.
Lady: I think it would be virtually impossible to live a two hour car journey away from the training centre of your choice and expect to do well on the course. You'd be exhausted from all the driving and it would eat into your evening study time (big time)?
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northampton
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 hours to LGW or LHR is fine, don't worry about it, the roads are empty for most SH earlies
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
British Airways Future Pilot Programme.
Stiggles
From memory last year the first set of assessment days at Oxford were during the 2 weeks before Christmas but there were some after. The second days started in the first week of jan I think. I'm also pretty sure from the comments last year that Oxford were quicker to call people in than the others - which of course makes no difference in the long run as the top x% (not me
unfortunately) all have to go to waterside around the same time
From memory last year the first set of assessment days at Oxford were during the 2 weeks before Christmas but there were some after. The second days started in the first week of jan I think. I'm also pretty sure from the comments last year that Oxford were quicker to call people in than the others - which of course makes no difference in the long run as the top x% (not me
unfortunately) all have to go to waterside around the same time