BA Future Pilot Programme (FPP)(Merged)

[BitMoreRightRudder]

As a business cashflow is king....if they issue 100 thats £8,400,000 tied up.......suspect the loans will be the exception rather than the rule

If you don't have £84k to hand then I wouldn't worry. The stated aim of BA is to recruit the most suitable candidates to enter the programme, not just those who come from wealthy backgrounds. That is why they are prepared to "guarantee" the loan.

Don't forget BA aren't providing the loan, the BBVA in Spain is the bank that will provide the finance. BA are simply standing behind you to ensure you get the required funds if you don't already have them. You will be responsible for making the repayments - if all goes well by means of a reduced salary and repayments made on your behalf by BA in a tax efficient way. It is essentially exactly the same financial arrangement offered to those of us who went through CTC bound for easyJet between 2004-7 before HSBC withdrew funding.

The vast majority of applicants will not have the money or the assets required to secure the loan so I suspect that the majority of those who get a place on the scheme will require BA's assistance with funding it. This is a great opportunity, do not let finance put you off applying!

[Georg1983]

I found out about the BA FPP yesterday and was exstreamly excited about this great oppotunity.

I've dreamed of becoming a pilot since my first ever flight. The flight from Malta to Heathrow acted as a catalyst which sparked a deep interest in aviation and a dream career as a pilot.

I have been restricted by living with just my mother who can just cope with me and my sister in a council house, with both my self and my sister working along side our full time education. Affording flight school would be impossible.

I jumped with joy when I read that BA will secure the loan with a partner bank.

However, I have a slight problem. I am currently lined up to go to Uni in september to Study Aerospace engineering at Soton (top 12 uni).
I would be willing to drop out of Uni for this placement.

I get my results in 6 days for my A levels where I will probably achieve good grades in Physics, Electronics, Geography & half an A-level in Maths Mechanics.
The grades that I am confident i will get: A*, A, B, B respectively.

I achieved over 12 GCSE between A to C. However here Is the problem.
I got B in Maths GCSE, Double B in my double science GCSE and only a C in English.

They wanted a B in English, however I was placed in a foundation tier in GCSE English I feel due to personal reasons with my tutor. The highest achievable grade was a C.


Tldr: Will I instantly be rejected for having a C in English whereas all my other grades smash the entry requirement and in relevant subjects. I also feel that my English has improved dramaticly since my GCSE years.

Thanks for reading, hope you can give me some advice.

[pug]

Bit of a confusing situation for me. I left school in the late 90's with 9 C grades in GCSE but never bothered with A-Levels going into work instead. I had managed to get on a uni degree course without any level 3 qualifications whatsoever but unfortunately missed out on a 2.1 by 0.4%

Due to the competitive nature of the application process I take it there would be no leway for special circumstances? I believe its both a blessing and a curse, that I got on a degree course in 2008 with no A-levels, but the lack of A-levels inhibits me from applying for such schemes (and some graduate positions in general).

[DrJones]

Minimum Qualifications

I applied for the BA sponsored scheme in 95/96 where the minimum qualifications from memory were 7 or 8 GCSE’s at C or above and 2 A Levels.

At the time I had 5 GCSE’s (C and Above) , 3 A Levels (C and above) and a degree.

Needless to say my application was rejected at the first stage because I did not have the minimum requirements (this was verified by a telephone call to HR).

I would not discourage anyone to apply as you never know but if you don’t meet the requirements I would give serious consideration to retaking the GCSE’s / A Levels to improve your chances of getting through the first cut.

Good luck

[jasoninbucks]

Honest opinions please...

The upper age limit of 55 has been discussed previously, but what are your honest opinions of my chances of clearing the first hurdles...

39 years old (40 in March 2012)
Married with two young children (5 and 2.5 years old) and a supportive wife!
1st class honours degree in Geography
Currently Head of Geography in a secondary school
Lapsed PPL holder - having previously worked for a flying school and private jet operator in Ops/Sales roles
Wannabe airline pilot since the age of 8, for whom circumstances never conspired to provide the opportunity

Thanks in advance for your opinions - good luck to everyone who goes for this!

[joe_fp]

I read about this scheme this morning and haven't been able to stop thinking about it since. I technically meet the requirements. I got AABB in my A levels, the A's were in Maths and Physics. I also have a degree from a top university. All good so far. One problem though - I had a tough time at university health-wise, my degree is a third.

The requirements say that as long as your A levels are up to scratch then there's no minimum degree class. I've often found that employers who say "no minimum degree class" really mean "well not a third obviously". Any thoughts? It's a technical degree, and I've been working in a job with lots of relevant skills since graduation. But will the computer see my third and say "no"?

[High-higher]

From reading previous posts it appears as long as you meet either the A-level requirements or the degree requirement you will pass that particular part of the screening, so you should be fine in that regard, you don't need both A Levels and a degree (although may be preferable). Then hopefully if you get to have an interview you can perhaps explain the problems that led to your 3rd as you have very solid A Levels.

[Scott Duch]

Does anyone know where to Scottish qualifications will fall into this? I emailed CTC a few years back when they asked for 2 A-Levels and in Scottish terms it was 5 Highers that they wanted (AS Level). Does anyone know what 3 A-Levels will be in Scottish terms?

I have 2 Advanced Highers - Physics & Geography both at a B. I have 5 Highers (As and Bs) in maths, english, physics, chemistry and geography and 8 Standard Grades between between 1-3 in the usual maths, english, physics, chemistry etc etc.

I am also in my 3rd year of Aeronautical Engineering.

I'm thinking of giving it a go but wasn't sure how the scottish education system fits in with the requirements.

[arriba1234]

BA-Cadet scheme,think carefully

Before everyone gets too excited about this announcement,take a deep breath and think about the deal-some trainees are so desperate to fly that they push aside some of the downsides.
BA is a make money organisation what is in this for them?
1. Oxford or CTC are turning out 20 plus frozen ATPL cadets every month,these guys are a known quantity-the poor ones would have partialled their CPL and/or IR so BA could savagely filter these cadets to find the good guys amonst them yet it does not do so? The impression that these P2F cadets are poor quality just is not true,despite the ability to fund themselves they have been filtered ignoring the funding.
2.BA refer to the scheme as sponsored-sponsorship as I understand it means the airline pays the student to train-not expecting him to get a loan,charge him interest and then take the money out of his salary to pay for it-a wierd form of sponsorship.
3.Is the type training included in the £84k-even the FTO's are admitting at open days that type training should be budgeted for to stand any chance of getting a job with any airline-if BA are including the type training in the £84k that would be a good deal.
4.What do BA mean by 'a conditional offer of a contract'-what are these conditions?
5.What do BA mean by'if you successfully complete all the training on the programme'-if you partial the CPL or IR will BA still want you-because as most ATPL cadets will confirm that is considered a big negative to employment-if BA is after quality why would they want you? Imagine the scenario after 3 years at UNI,with a £50k plus debt,you take the BBVA loan £84k or more,plus interest and BA says sorry partial IR does not meet their criteria,you would be in an awful position,
Before you sign up to this deal ask some enquiring questions and at least know what you are entering into-I would also be very interested in some of the answers to my own questions.

[TDME]

JasonInBucks - give it a go; the only things against you are:
1 - Why did you let your PPL lapse? They may question your passion for flying.
2 - Your age. But that's only coming from a Dad of comparable age who knows how hard it is to change/start again.

Both of these cons make for very good discussion at an interview and can easily be swung in ones favour.

You've got the paperwork (unlike me, who would need to upgarde 2 GCSEs and 3 A-Levels) so go for it!

[suninmyeyes]

Nukehunt , you wrote:

It's great to see this scheme being advertised, although for me and all the other low houred f/ATPL holders that have qualified over the last 2-3 years and have still not got a job, it isn't much use.

Also according to BA's education requirements, I'm way too thick to be a pilot with only 4 C grade GCSE's and a City & Guilds, however I hold a CPL/IR with 1st time passes in everything but 1 ATPL exam that I re-took a month later

BA have totally different criteria for their sponsorship selection program than they have for their DEP selection process. If you gain commercial experience flying for a different airline you may well find yourself eligible to join BA in the future as a Direct Entry Pilot.

[Togodumnus]

Can anyone give me one rational reason why BA have a new sponsered program?

Don't get me wrong, anything that employs more pilots is a good thing and I applaud it but can anyone give me one sane rational economic reason why BA are paying for the training of wannabes when now there are plenty (to put it politely) of us who have already gone through the process that BA is now voluteering to pay for? From newly qualified guys to type rated experienced guys.

There are only three things I can think of
1 BA actually think there may actuallly at loooooooooooong last be a pilot shortage
2 BA senior management have shares in the FTO's involved
3 BA senior management have too many close relations that cannot affored to pay for their own CPL/IR

I know where my money is.

[Human Factor]

The upper age limit of 55 has been discussed previously, but what are your honest opinions of my chances of clearing the first hurdles...

39 years old (40 in March 2012)
Married with two young children (5 and 2.5 years old) and a supportive wife!
1st class honours degree in Geography
Currently Head of Geography in a secondary school
Lapsed PPL holder - having previously worked for a flying school and private jet operator in Ops/Sales roles
Wannabe airline pilot since the age of 8, for whom circumstances never conspired to provide the opportunity

Thanks in advance for your opinions - good luck to everyone who goes for this!

I went through the previous cadet scheme in the late nineties. I applied as part of the first batch when the maximum age for application was early thirties (can't remember the actual figure although 32 rings a bell). Subsequent batches had the maximum age for application reduced to 26 as earlier courses showed a a higher failure rate for older candidates.

That's not to say that everyone over 26 had problems. Far from it, but it was clear that older candidates found the course more challenging than younger ones and the results reflected that to a certain degree.

[Bealzebub]

"sponsership" ?

Because there are wanabees, and there are wannabes.

They are looking for the best. They are setting their own standard, and they are mentoring the courses and the individuals involved. I trust this answer is as worthy of the title "rational explanation" as your own crafted examples?

[davepearsall]

Max age limit of 26 at one point?? Wow!

I'm glad they have seen the light and found out that people with more life experience, previous careers etc is just as important as age for a well rounded pilot.

Good luck to all of you that apply

[Human Factor]

.... can anyone give me one sane rational economic reason why BA are paying for the training of wannabes when now there are plenty (to put it politely) of us who have already gone through the process that BA is now voluteering to pay for? From newly qualified guys to type rated experienced guys.

There are only three things I can think of
1 BA actually think there may actuallly at loooooooooooong last be a pilot shortage
2 BA senior management have shares in the FTO's involved
3 BA senior management have too many close relations that cannot affored to pay for their own CPL/IR

I know where my money is.

I know where my money is.

4. BA hoovered up the best self-sponsored candidates from the main training schools (I take it you applied for the SSP or DEP programme at the time). However, following the banking crisis of 2008, the banks are no longer prepared to lend the large sums required unsecured to young people with no credit history or collateral. As the number of people with a spare £80k in cash is limited (and just because someone may have the cash doesn't automatically mean they would meet the criteria which BA are seeking), it makes perfect rational economic sense to screen candidates prior to training and lend the cost of the course to those most likely to meet those criteria and pass the course.

BA don't need these pilots instantly which means they have plenty of time to assess candidates and ensure they recruit the right people.

[Human Factor]

Max age limit of 26 at one point?? Wow!

I'm glad they have seen the light and found out that people with more life experience, previous careers etc is just as important than age for a well rounded pilot.

As is the ability to pass the course in a reasonable time - especially if BA were paying for it, hence the age limit as explained.

Life experience and previous careers are important as you suggest but the statistics mean older candidates will perhaps find it harder. The risk to BA is mitigated this time as candidates will be paying for the course themselves initially.

[Togodumnus]

Humanfactors

First off I have not applied for BA in any way shape or form. Never, nada nowt ever. I simply do not have the hours to come across their radar despite having all the academic qualifications required, as well as first time passes and high ATPL pass rates.

Secondly it is good that BA wants pilots and I applaud that fact but are you actually in all seriousness trying to tell us all that BA cannot tell the difference between the best of the MASSIVE pool of already QUALIFIED pilots already on offer for a cost less than the £90,000 that it takes to train a new integrated 21 year old?

If you are then I can see why the pilot training industry is in such a mess.

[Human Factor]

... are you actually in all seriousness trying to tell us all that BA cannot tell the difference between the best of the MASSIVE pool of already QUALIFIED pilots already on offer for a cost less than the £90,000 that it takes to train a new integrated 21 year old?

If you are then I can see why the pilot training industry is in such a mess.

Don't be ridiculous.

BA are continuing to recruit Direct Entry Pilots and also have a scheme tailored specifically for former military pilots. This ensures they have a good spread of age and ability (hopefully the best) amongst new recruits. At the very least, it ensures that they aren't going to have 800 pilots retire within a year of each other in thirty years or so.

BA are intending to expand their longhaul operation and none of the new "Future Pilot" candidates will be eligible for that until they hold an unfrozen ATPL, which means they must look at other recruiting avenues in addition to ab-initio to fill the gaps when all internal moves have happened.

[BusinessMan]

@Togodumnus - to your question: isn't the answer that clearly yes, BA think they can (ie tell the difference ... and have decided with that in mind that they will still go down the route of...).

Ok I'm being glib by saying that and I apologise for sounding so argumentative. I also don't quite believe it - I think that the truth is more a medium to long term issue in that they need a consistent (high) volume at the right (again high) level of quality, which thus justifies such an on-going recruitment scheme.

Truth be told I do have huge sympathy for those (including a number of good friends from training days) who are currently sitting there in limbo with the qual's but no job. There, but for the grace of God (and bag-fulls of luck during the competitive process), would I also sit.

A question I have asked of recruiters in other companies who have made (or in 1 case been about to make but didn't) a similar commitment and the answer was consistently the same, similarly to what we are hearing here, that "we cannot get the quantity of candidates we need at the required standard". Their answers, not mine (and no, of course I'm not going to name them).