Easyjet New Ab-initio scheme :)

[Bealzebub]

What if I fail during training?
What if I make it through training and there are no jobs?
What if I make it through training, there are jobs but they're not offering the best, ahem, terms and conditions?

1 doesn't seem such an issue as most places now offer some sort of risk mitigation factor whereby a large chunk of the financial capital is recovered through some bespoke insurance scheme.
2 and 3 are the crux of the problem. If someone is capable then I see no reason why he or she shouldn't be entitled to try and break into the industry regardless of age. The issue is that if you gamble whilst young, WITHOUT a written guaranteed job offer, then what on earth are you going to do in the event of scenario 2 and 3?

When do you think there has ever been a written guaranteed job offer?

[catfoodtastesbad]

OAA sinks to new lows

Oh dear, what an utter sham.

"The total training cost for the MPL First Officer course will be £85,000, including the CAA examination and license issue fees. This fee includes the cost of the A320 Type Training, which is Phase 4 of the course. Meals and accommodation costs are additional to the course fees and are estimated at £18,295 as outlined below"

followed by...

"No airline cadet programme has ever contained any absolute guarantees because economic conditions which influence airline crewing decisions can change"

And my personal favourite....

3) Compensation
Compensation details will follow.


hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! Hats off to easyJet and OAA! No guarantee of employment, NO funding or security offered whatsover, NO COMPENSATION DETAILS AT ALL (I hope it is minimum wage), all for a massively over-inflated price.

What a joke!

And before you ask, I am a desparate wannabee myself, but I have the unfortunate gift of intelligence so will not be applying to such a shambolic disgraceful "opportunity".

[kingofkabul]

Wow that is expensive! £104,000! Isnt is much cheaper to go through CTC Wings?

It says there is no guaranteed employment, and no finance to help (automatically counts me out ).

Also, I find it strange that there are no details for compensation.... I hate to be cynical but this is quite a large gap in the details!

Hmmm.... think it's a "no" from me.

[jersey145]

RIP-OFF!

104 Grand??????!!!!!! compared to under 80 grand for another MPL airline/fto provider???? arrr yes........making money out of your employees again! Those suckers just keep on coming....we may just have to off-load them before they unfreeze, leaving them to fund a CPL/IR conversion themselves......whilst on a reduced salary and heavily in debt. They will do anything to stay in a job, we say....they do....coz they have to!
CPL/IR scheme+320 TR for 104 Grand yes, apply but MPL at this cost????? no chance!

No protections afforded either eh??.....wouldn't suprise.

Oh, and just to put it into perspective, when paying for training you are looking at achieving a licence right? Well the CPL/IR has no requirment for a type rating before issue. The MPL does.....thus you are paying for a TR again! What a joke!

Do they provide KY jelly for the shafting????

[stuckgear]

£104,000

The sad thing is, there are some lunatics who will actually go for it.

back on page 1 of this thread, I asserrted..

Of course Easy are going to like it, they'll have a whole fresh bunch of lunatics that will have no option but to accept whatever sh1t contract they have dangled in front of them becuse they'll have a licence worth jack sh1t and be hog tied to easy becuase they wont have any paperwork of value on the market.

and was met with this response by KoK:

Why be so negative without a single fact to back it up?

I'm not having a pop at you KoK, the thing is some of us on this forum actually have considerable experience in the business/commercial aspects of aviation and have been about long enough to formulate a perception of what is being proposed.

You may think ohh but i'll suck it up for two years fly the max hours and then swan off with an ATPL. do you honestly think that is in EZ's best financial interests, as i said before:

how about these guys getting paid by block flying hour, yet being on duty till they are dead on their feet, flying maybe 300 hours per year, its less than minimum wage and yet they'll be bought and owned for what 5 years till they can even think about unfreezing and earning big time with the legacy carriers.

again, it's a cheap deal to get a load of right seaters hog tied into a situation where they have no option but to accept whatever bone they maybe thrown.

Soo what else can you do apart from fight like a pack dogs over what ever bone is thrown, becuase there wont be anywhere else to take the MPL along with the millstone of debt. That is commercial leverage.

Personally speaking I DO NOT want to see anymore wannabes with dreams and illusions expolited for commercial benefit of an operator or two, it is damaging to thie industry, to the larger pilot body and to your own individual security and futures.

[kingofkabul]

Agree completely now with you Stuckgear - no offence taken.

I'm sure there will be enough 17/18 year-old crazies to satisfy easyJet.

Here's hoping some better schemes come along this year! Anyone know of that Flybe/TCX scheme will come about again?

[stuckgear]

Here's hoping some better schemes come along this year! Anyone know of that Flybe/TCX scheme will come about again?

kok, the thing is, whats gone in the past is just that, gone. new 'schemes' will be just that, schemes. Take a run over into the T&E KoK and read the thread on Flybe. that'll give you a reality check of commercial leverage. The problem is that the new lows are being set and yet people sign up for them, which invariably sets the next scheme parameters even lower.

The hard fact is, the pilot dream job is just that, a dream. The FTO's are selling an illusion and the 'partner' airlines are taking commercial advantage of the illusion being sold.

Its been said before : http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ml#post6352662

[jersey145]

Stuckgear.........hope its not a truck light? KoK and similar are no doubt eduacted types that will give this a miss. It would be interesting to sit at the interview and ask the tricky questions of EZY/OAA.

hopefully some less exploitative airlines may offer schemes for ab-initios in the near future. the industry will be damaged by CRM nightmares whose daddies own oil-fields if this contnues for too long........or god forbid...another Colgan air happens in the UK/EU, the old ways will come back.

[stuckgear]

Stuckgear.........hope its not a truck light? KoK and similar are no doubt eduacted types that will give this a miss. It would be interesting to sit at the interview and ask the tricky questions of EZY/OAA.

hopefully some less exploitative airlines may offer schemes for ab-initios in the near future. the industry will be damaged by CRM nightmares whose daddies own oil-fields if this contnues for too long........or god forbid...another Colgan air happens in the UK/EU, the old ways will come back.

huh ?

I certainly am not saying that KoK is not educated, but there are some on this forum who have experience in these very issues at depth.

Another Colgan air in the UK ? As far as I am aware the Colgan incident didn't happen in the UK, but hey, you learn something new every day.

If you are bringing up the fact that the Colgan incident is going to see improvement in T&C's in the UK/EU, go over to R&N and read the very threads on the EASA FTL revisions. Quite the opposite to your postulation, the EASA FTL proposals are divergent from improvements in T&C's and the opposite to what the FAA is doing in terms of fatigue.

[kingofkabul]

I think what J145 is referring to is a possible situation where an easyJet Airbus MPL-FO is so poor and depressed that they have to commute for miles to get to work, unrested, and promptly crash said Airbus. Thank God for Airbus stall prevention.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

What an utter bag of utter shhhhite! Stay well away 18-19-20 somethings out there! You really have been warned!!! This is pure salavating expolitation! Hold fire if i were you. But hey dreams are powerful things.

It is interesting that in my bank's literature on mortgages, it warns about getting into eye watering debt just for the 'dream'................

[tombell777]

That is ridiculous, I was looking forward to some semi affordable package the I could have possibly been able to afford. This is just taking it to new levels. OAA + Easyjet.

Employ some poor fATPL 250hr guys who are on the dole.

30 candidates at approx 100 GRAND each. Errmm £30 Million pounds!? Excellent.

This scheme is just for rich kids. If your reading this Mr Oxford you’re a mug.

[jersey145]

Stuckgear....evidently not a bigger boeing man......the truck light. not that it matters.

Just take a break for a moment. have a kitkat. i have one in my crew food bag for ya
I was not saying the dash crashed in the UK. I meant that the US uped the hours to 1500 for ab-initios to get airline employment. hence 200 or so hour pilot programmes would die out. And yes if these new EASA FTLs come in then brace yourselves. but they are just proposals at this stage! And yes bean counter love them....safety costs more than an accident in their eyes. The colgan crew had limited experience in the right hand seat and piss poor training all round. Not that i wish to speak ill of the dead.

And any idiot can see that the new FTLs if imposed would lower TandCs all round.
I leave you with some advice...............RTFQ and RTFA. Now back to the exploitation at hand........................


P.S If you wish to have a quiet word with me please PM me.

[stuckgear]

RTFQ and RTFA.

Right back atcha.

P.S If you wish to have a quiet word with me please PM me.

with that attitude; no desire thanks.

[cx_773er]

This is an absolute shambles.... £104,00 is a stupid amount of money to pay for a course. Easyjet should really have made this a part sponsored scheme. I really wonder how many apps OAA are actually going to recieve for this. Hopefully the thin numbers will slap some sense into the management there

[tombell777]

Based on that calculation, you should never become a pilot!

This is true lol finger slipped on the keypad

[howflytrg]

So FTE and Flybe give you all MPL training a dash TR and accom and meals for £80,000. Why can EZY not emulate this? Flybe put you up in hotels at their cost during the induction and TR (phase 4) and give you a meal allowance. Why not EZY???? Have they no morals?

[Bealzebub]

Employ some poor fATPL 250hr guys who are on the dole.

Sorry, but that isn't really what airlines want. Even in the days when you needed 700 hours for a (non approved course) CPL/IR, it wasn't what they wanted.

The advantage to these companies of employing low houred "cadets" is one of cost and flexibility. The risk is the lack of experience.

The advantage for the airlines is that they source the perceived best cadets without any cost penalty from those training establishments that they have an affiliation with. They can see the entire candidates training background, selection screening and progress records. From these they can choose the cadets they feel are best suited. On top of this, they can return the cadet if things don't work out for whatever reason. As a cherry on the icing, the cadets also usually come with a built in bond attached for added security.

The risk is tempered by the quality of both the candidate and the training that candidate receives. This training is monitored and again the candidates whole progress history can be tracked. The methodology and record keeping is usually in the same or a similar format to that the airline uses themselves. The airline can input its own requirements into the training providers courses.

Before the recent recession and medium term down-cycle, the writing was already on the wall with regard to the growth of cadet programmes. As and when expansion returns, the growth will come through these programmes.

The name of the game if you want to be a 250 hour airline pilot, is succeed in securing a cadet placement through one of these programmes, or work your way up through a system that will allow you to apply at the traditional 2000 hour / 500 turbine level.

The industry has evolved and changed (not all of that change has been for the better.) To stand the best chance of success you need to change and adapt with it. Understanding what is happening is important.

[mark_c]

What a scam!!! I would feel safer as a PAX on a flight knowing that the folks at the controls got there through merit and hard work... Not daddy's money!! Shame on you easyJet!

[Bealzebub]

Most passengers only concern themselves with the price they have paid for their ticket, and that the flight arrives on time. Safety, maintenance and training are something of a given (and rightly so) in most peoples minds. I am afraid that "merit and hard work" are not enough in themselves to ensure the best chance of success, however they will also be required.

Flying is expensive, and if you want the best chance of an airline career with only 250 hours, it is very expensive!

Unless this airline has no intention or ability to fulfil the terms of the contract I very much doubt it is a scam. You (and others) may not think much of it, but not a scam.

If you drive up the road to your local airport you will see a lot of blue, yellow and white airliners owned by a locally based company. This airline was one of the pioneers in driving down input costs in the European airline marketplace. The vocal CEO of this company has made no secret of his desire to eliminate the F/O's role. If he can't do this, he doesn't see why cabin crew can't carry out the role as part of their duties. Failing that he doesn't see why people shouldn't pay as much as they are prepared to, in order for the chance to carry out the function. So far, the regulators have only not baulked at the final suggestion.

Competition can only remain as competition if they also reduce their own input costs. The answer for less "vocal" companies has been to seek out cost savings and flexibility through the controlled expansion of these cadet schemes. The risk falls on the applicants. It is expensive.

P.S. For those of you so contemptuous of "Daddy's money" it shouldn't be forgotten how much of that got you through the first two decades of your lives, in most cases. When you become "Daddy's" yourselves, you will understand.