Are Ryanair still taking on FOs?
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and prostitutes do get unpaid leave though....this could go on forever
ryr are exploiting people, and will continue to do so.this isnt an opinion its a fact.i work for a loco.i didnt pay for my rating,i dont have to fork out for my sim,im allowed be in a union with fear of death,im allowed drink as much tea and coffee as i can, i dont have to pay for my uniform, i get feed everyday at work though the quality isnt fantastic,im permenant thank god
this is all fact.you can dress it up whatever way you want but mol is exploiting the desperation of new cpl/meirs or the bank of mummy and daddy.
if ryr was that fantastic then why isnt it viewed as a career airline?
why is mol so terrified of balpa/ialpa?
and why oh why do people not leave ezy,ba,thomasccok,thomson or all the other reasonable carriers for ryr.....?because its crap
because its only the choice of the desperate.no reflection on the newbies.this is just a fact
mr horgy im at a loss at to why you want to defend it.ryr hasnt got the name it has for no reason.im not commenting on you its ryr.
ryr are exploiting people, and will continue to do so.this isnt an opinion its a fact.i work for a loco.i didnt pay for my rating,i dont have to fork out for my sim,im allowed be in a union with fear of death,im allowed drink as much tea and coffee as i can, i dont have to pay for my uniform, i get feed everyday at work though the quality isnt fantastic,im permenant thank god
this is all fact.you can dress it up whatever way you want but mol is exploiting the desperation of new cpl/meirs or the bank of mummy and daddy.
if ryr was that fantastic then why isnt it viewed as a career airline?
why is mol so terrified of balpa/ialpa?
and why oh why do people not leave ezy,ba,thomasccok,thomson or all the other reasonable carriers for ryr.....?because its crap
because its only the choice of the desperate.no reflection on the newbies.this is just a fact
mr horgy im at a loss at to why you want to defend it.ryr hasnt got the name it has for no reason.im not commenting on you its ryr.
If WWW's last comment likening pilots who work for Ryanair to prostitutes had been made on a different thread by someone who wasn't a moderator it would have been deleted as being vulgar.
Can we please limit this thread to comments relevant to the question posed by the original poster, rather than Ryanair bashing. Everyone knows the Ryanair/Brookfield deal isn't wonderful; and, yes, we all want to be employed on fantastic terms and conditions; the continuing carping just makes the anti-Ryanair posse look bitter, twisted, and about as charming as MOL himself.
Please change the record. The energy you chaps put into hating Ryanair is probably contributing to global warming!
Can we please limit this thread to comments relevant to the question posed by the original poster, rather than Ryanair bashing. Everyone knows the Ryanair/Brookfield deal isn't wonderful; and, yes, we all want to be employed on fantastic terms and conditions; the continuing carping just makes the anti-Ryanair posse look bitter, twisted, and about as charming as MOL himself.
Please change the record. The energy you chaps put into hating Ryanair is probably contributing to global warming!
No, the comment was specifically about Ryanair pilots being like prostitutes defending their pimp.
It's the pimp/prostitute relationship NOT the prostitution that was the point.
Take this discussion out of my playground if you want me to ignore it.
WWW
It's the pimp/prostitute relationship NOT the prostitution that was the point.
Take this discussion out of my playground if you want me to ignore it.
WWW
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Beak,
Where are these magical jobs where you don't pay for ratings? I applied for over 300 posts and got flat rejections from most. Even airlines who I knew were having problems filing cadetships from the Integrated pool wouldn't look at me, probably because I was "dirty" from being a modular student. I find the idea that people who apply to Ryanair are desperate highly offensive.
People miss the point. A reduced salary IS paying for your rating. Bonding is more acceptable, but if it means being paid £7,000 less a year for 4 years then how exactly am I losing out? You pay your money one way or another.
Fair enough on the TR front, I don't set the rules or the prices - but that's still less than Sigmar/Thomas Cook want for their program, and that doesn't come with a job offer (implied or not) at the end, yet no-one bashes them!
People STILL bang on about what they see as important - the availability of **** crew food on the company, a free tea or coffee here and there, and not paying for your uniform. This is chickenfeed. I'm more interested in roster stability, aircraft that don't break leaving me stuck down route, no deep night flying, and excellent and well implemented SOP's. Note the above statements apply to BRK or RYR contracts.
Why people don't see RYR as a career airline is anyones business and depends who you talk to. Most of the pilots i've flown with have been there a good few years, a lot of ex-KLM/Buzz guys, and some who flew the 200. O'Leary isn't scared of BALPA either, we won't get recognition this time around like before, and he'll sit in his padded chair laughing at us - AGAIN.
I'm quite happy to quote specific T&C's, or my experience to those on this thread who want to have meaningful discussion or want advice on what RYR is like, to the extent I can on a public forum. All I see is bash bash bash though in generalities from those who don't work for us and are cushy at other airlines. After all, when they are recruiting, i'm no doubt sure you'll be sucking cadets for every last drop.
Horgy
WWW - I'm surprised at your comment. I will defend RYR because they gave me a job, and continue to employ me when times are hard. If you think i'm prostituting myself then keep it to yourself.
Where are these magical jobs where you don't pay for ratings? I applied for over 300 posts and got flat rejections from most. Even airlines who I knew were having problems filing cadetships from the Integrated pool wouldn't look at me, probably because I was "dirty" from being a modular student. I find the idea that people who apply to Ryanair are desperate highly offensive.
People miss the point. A reduced salary IS paying for your rating. Bonding is more acceptable, but if it means being paid £7,000 less a year for 4 years then how exactly am I losing out? You pay your money one way or another.
Fair enough on the TR front, I don't set the rules or the prices - but that's still less than Sigmar/Thomas Cook want for their program, and that doesn't come with a job offer (implied or not) at the end, yet no-one bashes them!
People STILL bang on about what they see as important - the availability of **** crew food on the company, a free tea or coffee here and there, and not paying for your uniform. This is chickenfeed. I'm more interested in roster stability, aircraft that don't break leaving me stuck down route, no deep night flying, and excellent and well implemented SOP's. Note the above statements apply to BRK or RYR contracts.
Why people don't see RYR as a career airline is anyones business and depends who you talk to. Most of the pilots i've flown with have been there a good few years, a lot of ex-KLM/Buzz guys, and some who flew the 200. O'Leary isn't scared of BALPA either, we won't get recognition this time around like before, and he'll sit in his padded chair laughing at us - AGAIN.
I'm quite happy to quote specific T&C's, or my experience to those on this thread who want to have meaningful discussion or want advice on what RYR is like, to the extent I can on a public forum. All I see is bash bash bash though in generalities from those who don't work for us and are cushy at other airlines. After all, when they are recruiting, i'm no doubt sure you'll be sucking cadets for every last drop.
Horgy
WWW - I'm surprised at your comment. I will defend RYR because they gave me a job, and continue to employ me when times are hard. If you think i'm prostituting myself then keep it to yourself.
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It's the pimp/prostitute relationship NOT the prostitution that was the point.
It would have been better if you had said "office workers defending their dept. supervisor", or "flight instructors defending their CFI".
As for RYR I neither know nor care.
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again its not blind hatred of ryr.as ryr destroys their employees terms it impacts on my job.as my employers tries to compete.so everyone that signs up to and puts up with the crap oleary and crookfield offer it has a direct impact on my job. the same job i pay balpa to try to protect its terms.
this isnt people having a moan or whinge about ryr.there are very valid reasons why ryr is slagged off.they are destroying the industry.they have started a race to the bottom.thats what newbees considering ryr need to be aware of. they gain short term with a few jet hours but lose long term as they are contributing to destroying the terms of the profession they want to join through desperation or the bank of mummy and daddy
this isnt people having a moan or whinge about ryr.there are very valid reasons why ryr is slagged off.they are destroying the industry.they have started a race to the bottom.thats what newbees considering ryr need to be aware of. they gain short term with a few jet hours but lose long term as they are contributing to destroying the terms of the profession they want to join through desperation or the bank of mummy and daddy
blackred, easy offering 6 month 1000 pound a month contracts, flexwings or whatever its called, summer only commands. BMI offering pay to fly, BA starting openskies with terms much much lower than the incumbents. The likes of the charter operators offering pay to fly for the summer??
None of those are bringing this career to what it is today? It's all RYR's fault is it, lets all ignore the fact that RYR was NOT the first to do pay for type ratings.
I agree some of what it does isn't good but it does so within the rules of the land and within what people are willing to except. Frankly at the moment what choice do we have? Mass strikes? BALPA when they allowed Openskies to go ahead? Go to other airlines when they are reducing staff numbers?
None of those are bringing this career to what it is today? It's all RYR's fault is it, lets all ignore the fact that RYR was NOT the first to do pay for type ratings.
I agree some of what it does isn't good but it does so within the rules of the land and within what people are willing to except. Frankly at the moment what choice do we have? Mass strikes? BALPA when they allowed Openskies to go ahead? Go to other airlines when they are reducing staff numbers?
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i could be wrong but did ryr not start charging for type rating on the 200 in 2001, that would make them the first.or am i wrong.
most of what you mention ie the ezy scheme, or bmi pay to fly are all in response to what ryr has done.i could be wrong but im pretty sure ryr were the first to introduce most of these in this part of the world
most of what you mention ie the ezy scheme, or bmi pay to fly are all in response to what ryr has done.i could be wrong but im pretty sure ryr were the first to introduce most of these in this part of the world
blackred wrong again.. pay for type rating were alive and well in the 90's and 80's so would you like to revisit that asertion? And how is BMI pay to fly retaliation to RYR seeing as according to the companies they offer different prodcuts at different price points, same with the charter market.
Easy also see themselves as being different to RYR so I'm failing to see how this was driven by RYR. For the record RYR doesn't offer 6 month contracts or summer only commands so they were not in fact started by RYR, perhaps you should be writing a post about how easy are reducing the industry terms along with BMI (who incidently renegged on a contracted pay rise earlier in the year)?
Perhaps the answer you are looking for is that the accountants are in charge and will screw us all over with what ever means they can. But it's easier to blame the boys and girls at RYR because collectively we fail to see that the biggest problem with our industry. We are easy targets for the green fascists (taxes) and that CEO's etc are beholden to one thing only and that is profits at the expense of everything else!
Easy also see themselves as being different to RYR so I'm failing to see how this was driven by RYR. For the record RYR doesn't offer 6 month contracts or summer only commands so they were not in fact started by RYR, perhaps you should be writing a post about how easy are reducing the industry terms along with BMI (who incidently renegged on a contracted pay rise earlier in the year)?
Perhaps the answer you are looking for is that the accountants are in charge and will screw us all over with what ever means they can. But it's easier to blame the boys and girls at RYR because collectively we fail to see that the biggest problem with our industry. We are easy targets for the green fascists (taxes) and that CEO's etc are beholden to one thing only and that is profits at the expense of everything else!
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well i stand corrected. im interested to know which jet operators started charging for type ratings in this part of the world.as for ryr not offer summer only command your quite correct again...instead they issue unpaid leave for the winter or am i wrong on this too.
.
or should i say they enforce unpaid leave.look simple fact of the matter is ryrs terms are poor at best probably closer to appauling.they set the trend.
.or should i say they enforce unpaid leave.look simple fact of the matter is ryrs terms are poor at best probably closer to appauling.they set the trend.
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Well, it's a terrible analogy, because in countries not as prudish as the UK where prostitution is an occupation like any other, prostitutes sometimes hire bodyguards for protection/image purposes, so your pimp/prostitute relationship either does not apply or is reversed.
For what it is worth, as far as pay to fly schemes go, Ryanairs is by far and away the very best in terms of paying for a TR and line training in the rawest sense. Views on here are not personal, they are against a dreadfully unjust process which involves people working very hard and having to pay for the pleasure. To the people who have explored every avenue over perhaps 3 years and found Ryanair to be the only option it is perhaps justifiable and even sensible
but to the weak individuals that come straight out of Oxford and the likes, and straight into Ryanair - you clearly have no faith in your own ability and you clearly have no self worth. You are destroying this profession and this industry.
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Job security at RYR is disgraceful. It must be as the only company making a huge profit (announced yesterday) this quarter when the competition are clutching at straws... It's easy to open your mouth, but let's look at the facts, they're the only ones obviously doing 'something' right...
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the thing with ryr is just when you think the have finally sunk as far as they can go,they surprise you by sinking even further.then an even more amazing thing happen they get a load of newbees (sponsored by darling daddy) daft enough to sign up to the sh*& they offer.
and then they whinged about terms in the job being eroded......well dont bloody work for ryr then.
and then they whinged about terms in the job being eroded......well dont bloody work for ryr then.
Only £28k? Is that all?
If you can fly, fly. If you cant get out and leave it to the capable.
and then they whinged about terms in the job being eroded
What job security does RYR offer these new contract pilots in the current environement?
Where are these magical jobs where you don't pay for ratings?
Let's say a person has always dreamed of being a professional pilot and has worked hard to save the money to afford a career change. This perfectly decent person started training a few years back before there was a recession. They're now qualified and are faced with unemployment for 2-3 years until the market picks up sufficiently for airlines to consider 250 hour pilots or spending a further £30k in order to join Ryanair.
What are these pilots suppose to do? Are they supposed to go on the dole rather than take a reasonably well-paid job with Ryanair?
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TheBeak and EI,
I don't understand your views, and I mean that in a genuine and non-critical way.
I wanted to be a pilot. I saved up the money, trained and then joined RYR paying for my type rating. There is no part of the deal that came as any surprise either before, during or after the training - this includes all of the little things often spoken of here such as ID's, uniform, pension, leave etc.
In years gone by I worked in IT (as appears to be the case with many late starting professional pilots), and for some of those years I contracted. This meant I had to buy my own clothes, pension, had no job security and was very much the "disposable hired help". All of this was obvious to me before I went into it and I made an individual choice to go ahead anyway.
I am a big believer in free market forces, and all I see is RYR exporing the same. There are comments made about RYR that I do not agree with, and there are things said about RYR which I honestly just don't understand, and your comments fall into the latter, and not first, category. There are no lies, smoke, nor mirrors in the RYR world, and I believe that the vast majority of my colleagues knew what they were signing up for. I consider myself to be a reasonably well-educated, mature and thoughtful person. Before committing my hard-earned money to OAA and eventually RYR I considered my options and went ahead with the course of action that seemed best for me. I love my job, and am happy with my choices.
I realise that the following might lead me down a path to dissatisfaction, and I may regret opening up the debate, but I am honestly open to persuasion towards your views if you are both willing to open up and share the logic behind your views. Where is it that you think I have gone wrong?
Wally.
I don't understand your views, and I mean that in a genuine and non-critical way.
I wanted to be a pilot. I saved up the money, trained and then joined RYR paying for my type rating. There is no part of the deal that came as any surprise either before, during or after the training - this includes all of the little things often spoken of here such as ID's, uniform, pension, leave etc.
In years gone by I worked in IT (as appears to be the case with many late starting professional pilots), and for some of those years I contracted. This meant I had to buy my own clothes, pension, had no job security and was very much the "disposable hired help". All of this was obvious to me before I went into it and I made an individual choice to go ahead anyway.
I am a big believer in free market forces, and all I see is RYR exporing the same. There are comments made about RYR that I do not agree with, and there are things said about RYR which I honestly just don't understand, and your comments fall into the latter, and not first, category. There are no lies, smoke, nor mirrors in the RYR world, and I believe that the vast majority of my colleagues knew what they were signing up for. I consider myself to be a reasonably well-educated, mature and thoughtful person. Before committing my hard-earned money to OAA and eventually RYR I considered my options and went ahead with the course of action that seemed best for me. I love my job, and am happy with my choices.
I realise that the following might lead me down a path to dissatisfaction, and I may regret opening up the debate, but I am honestly open to persuasion towards your views if you are both willing to open up and share the logic behind your views. Where is it that you think I have gone wrong?
Wally.
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People will probably fire back at you with "its people like you lowering T&C's for the rest of us and blah blah!"
its not people like him,, its the airline big wigs! they know people will pay now rather than bond so its a safer bet for them in a tough market to risk expanding still, the positive side of that is its safer for them to create MORE JOBS! cant argue thats a good thing
there will always be someone willing to do your job cheaper in any job you do because there are more workers than jobs in pretty much every field so why not take advantage of that! they would be daft not too! i took up flying to make money not friends and i am sure the airline share holders want money too, they will probably already have friends just as i do.
Ryanair might look like the bad guys,, but lets stand back and look at the fact that there one of the very very few operators making money still and hireing people,,, most others are failing because they have a flawed business model in todays market! adapt or die. (BA ANYONE!)
its as simple as two shops opposite offering the same product,, one is slightly cheaper than the other, which shop are you going to go for? there are two pilots wanting a job, one wants a free type rating and uniform and id and the other is happy to pay for his for a few years while still young enough to live at home or in a cheap apartment before buying a house and stuff a few years down the line ones training debts are paid, the airline will choose the latter as its safer for there bottom line and you know the guy is gonna work hard as he has his own financial interests in the company too and wont just bugger off to greener grass when offered, but if he does its no loss to them, in comes the next guy.
if you like the idea submit an application to ryanair if you meet requirements, if you dont,, apply elsewhere and pray that one day before its too late you get a shot at a job.
its not people like him,, its the airline big wigs! they know people will pay now rather than bond so its a safer bet for them in a tough market to risk expanding still, the positive side of that is its safer for them to create MORE JOBS! cant argue thats a good thing
there will always be someone willing to do your job cheaper in any job you do because there are more workers than jobs in pretty much every field so why not take advantage of that! they would be daft not too! i took up flying to make money not friends and i am sure the airline share holders want money too, they will probably already have friends just as i do.
Ryanair might look like the bad guys,, but lets stand back and look at the fact that there one of the very very few operators making money still and hireing people,,, most others are failing because they have a flawed business model in todays market! adapt or die. (BA ANYONE!)
its as simple as two shops opposite offering the same product,, one is slightly cheaper than the other, which shop are you going to go for? there are two pilots wanting a job, one wants a free type rating and uniform and id and the other is happy to pay for his for a few years while still young enough to live at home or in a cheap apartment before buying a house and stuff a few years down the line ones training debts are paid, the airline will choose the latter as its safer for there bottom line and you know the guy is gonna work hard as he has his own financial interests in the company too and wont just bugger off to greener grass when offered, but if he does its no loss to them, in comes the next guy.
if you like the idea submit an application to ryanair if you meet requirements, if you dont,, apply elsewhere and pray that one day before its too late you get a shot at a job.
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My point is this, people paying to fly, in the form of 33K for whatever it is you guys and girls get, is lowering Ryanairs operating costs. Hugely. Pilots, per hour, are a big cost in the equation of operating an airliner......at least they were. This inturn is making it increadibly difficult for other airlines to compete. Eventually they will all have to go a similar way. The result? Lower salaries and ever more impossible financial hill infront of anyone suitable to commence pilot training.
I agree it becomes justifyable to pay for the TR and job with Ryanair perhaps after a very good year oor two of looking without luck in finding ANY flying job. To come straight out of flight school and apply straight away to Ryanair is selling yourself and the rest of us short. But it's done now and wont be reversed. So we shall except it. People will always do it, it's it the way people have become.
I agree it becomes justifyable to pay for the TR and job with Ryanair perhaps after a very good year oor two of looking without luck in finding ANY flying job. To come straight out of flight school and apply straight away to Ryanair is selling yourself and the rest of us short. But it's done now and wont be reversed. So we shall except it. People will always do it, it's it the way people have become.