Are Ryanair still taking on FOs?
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sorry which part of my post in inaccurate command b...do tell.anyone that pays for a type rating right now with the terms offered needs mental health care.its completely ridiculous to even consider joining.what part of it could possibly appeal to anyone. not to mention how people fail to see how the ryanair offer is pathetic, with absolutely no guarantee of anything other than the fact you will get screwed.its very obvious why ryanair keep running these course, its because they make a fortune on charging for the type rating....there are no jobs at the end.ryanair are overcrewed,why else was unpaid leave forced on people last winter.probably not because they were short of pilots
how people cannot see this for what it is is just beyond me.you may as well stick the 35grand on a horse at least you would have some hope of a return on your money
i always believed that part of our profession required people to be able to get to the bottom of things, to be able to find the root cause/reason behind something.see through the bull.now is the time for newbies to demonstrate this quality for the sake of their own financial futures
how people cannot see this for what it is is just beyond me.you may as well stick the 35grand on a horse at least you would have some hope of a return on your money
i always believed that part of our profession required people to be able to get to the bottom of things, to be able to find the root cause/reason behind something.see through the bull.now is the time for newbies to demonstrate this quality for the sake of their own financial futures
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Sadly the generation we are talking about here (for the most not all granted!) are not willing to work there way up and cannot see the wood for the trees. They believe that paying for a type rating and then only being offered a contract is not such a bad thing, experience will show them otherwise!
If the cash for the training is unsecured and they can default then what's to worry about? if it's secured against a parents property then let's hope the parents have more common sense and stop funding this airline which is based on false economy.
It's easy for those of us in jobs to lecture those not but try to use the brains that got you through the useless atpl exams....Ryanair is not an employer it's an exploiter!
Stack shelves, paint houses, empty bins, mow lawns, become an accountant, work in an office but don't fund Mickey Mouth's airline for him!!!
If the cash for the training is unsecured and they can default then what's to worry about? if it's secured against a parents property then let's hope the parents have more common sense and stop funding this airline which is based on false economy.
It's easy for those of us in jobs to lecture those not but try to use the brains that got you through the useless atpl exams....Ryanair is not an employer it's an exploiter!
Stack shelves, paint houses, empty bins, mow lawns, become an accountant, work in an office but don't fund Mickey Mouth's airline for him!!!
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couldnt agree more with you.sorry if im preaching though,this is basic common sense.i finished my training during last downturn.i had to wait my turn,just sit it out.same now these guys have to do the same.this isnt a career with a quick fix.it takes time.do whatever it takes to keep your head above water and wait for the oppurtunities to arise the likes of ezy, charter companies,netjet etc they will all hire again.not so sure about ba but thats for another day
but please stop this race for the bottom by paying into all this ridiculous insult ryr and crookfield offer.ITS A SCAM
but please stop this race for the bottom by paying into all this ridiculous insult ryr and crookfield offer.ITS A SCAM
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MVE, Blackred1443,
I agree with some points you have made. You are quite correct BRK pilots do not get sick pay, loss of licence...etc. But personally I already have that covered so its not as big-a-deal for me however I can understand the implications for others.
I disagree with underpaid. During my line training a few years ago I was taking home NET around £2000 - £2400 easily. That has only gone upwards...! And my Ts and Cs have not changed at all. Maybe me and the other F/Os i know are lucky!! I am not claiming that I can speak for the whole pilot workforce, I understand some guys have a bad experience however im sure this happens in every airline. Infact I know it does.
"CommandB point taken on the water issue, so Ryanair at least go some way to taking responsibility for the duty of care they are required to show you by EU employement law then ;-)" ---->
We get milk too...! haha
Guys, like I said at the start - I see your POV and there are good and not so good things about BRK, I understand every single pilot will have slightly different views on this. However for me the GOOD vastly outweighs the bad so we can bicker on here or just accept we have differing views.
Just to answer the question, again, from the beginning. Ryanair are not recruiting at this time!
I agree with some points you have made. You are quite correct BRK pilots do not get sick pay, loss of licence...etc. But personally I already have that covered so its not as big-a-deal for me however I can understand the implications for others.
I disagree with underpaid. During my line training a few years ago I was taking home NET around £2000 - £2400 easily. That has only gone upwards...! And my Ts and Cs have not changed at all. Maybe me and the other F/Os i know are lucky!! I am not claiming that I can speak for the whole pilot workforce, I understand some guys have a bad experience however im sure this happens in every airline. Infact I know it does.
"CommandB point taken on the water issue, so Ryanair at least go some way to taking responsibility for the duty of care they are required to show you by EU employement law then ;-)" ---->
We get milk too...! hahaGuys, like I said at the start - I see your POV and there are good and not so good things about BRK, I understand every single pilot will have slightly different views on this. However for me the GOOD vastly outweighs the bad so we can bicker on here or just accept we have differing views.
Just to answer the question, again, from the beginning. Ryanair are not recruiting at this time!
CommandB... It depends what you're comparing it with, stacking shelves at Tesco, then it's VERY well payed!. I was earning over £3k+ net as a junior F/O on a 737 10 YEARS ago. And I was payed to do the TR!
Apologies for the thread creep.
Apologies for the thread creep.
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Yep, you are completely correct. However unfortunately for us, times have changed. T's and C's 10 years ago are null and void in todays market or so it seems. I personally think 2.5 grand for a few hours work a month is pretty good when your fresh out of your FTO! Line training is only 2months at max so 5 grand in two months. Basically what you get stacking shelves in tescos for the year! Plus it keeps going up and up!! The downside to the BRK contract is that you do not have a set salary, but I have not found this to be much of a problem. I get paid enough to pay for everything I need + alot more I can assure you!
Yes its a bit frustrating having to pay for the TR and a few years ago it was around 10K LESS than it is now. Thats not very good but id rather be here in my position now - training loan about to be completely paid off, TR loan already paid off, than on the dole or stacking shelves!
Each to their own I guess....!
Yes its a bit frustrating having to pay for the TR and a few years ago it was around 10K LESS than it is now. Thats not very good but id rather be here in my position now - training loan about to be completely paid off, TR loan already paid off, than on the dole or stacking shelves!
Each to their own I guess....!
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CommandB
Wish I had know they weren't recruiting, I was called for an assessment on the 25 June. I was not successful, but then none of us were (8 in total).
Regardless of how I performed, I can only assume that at least one of us should have been up to standard and now only conclude that even Chesley Sullenberger himself wouldn't have been succesful as there were no
vacancies.
Does anyone know if there has been any assessment days since mine? If they never intended on offering us contracts they should have cancelled the assessment as including travel, 3 hours sim prep, hotel and the assessment fee itself, it was a very expensive day.
Wish I had know they weren't recruiting, I was called for an assessment on the 25 June. I was not successful, but then none of us were (8 in total).
Regardless of how I performed, I can only assume that at least one of us should have been up to standard and now only conclude that even Chesley Sullenberger himself wouldn't have been succesful as there were no
vacancies.
Does anyone know if there has been any assessment days since mine? If they never intended on offering us contracts they should have cancelled the assessment as including travel, 3 hours sim prep, hotel and the assessment fee itself, it was a very expensive day.
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I think Command B is the only person on this thread that has any clue what he is talking about. We are getting first hand experience from someone who is actually flying the LINE for RYR here so I think he knows what he is talking about, do you not agree blackred1443 and MVE?? Do you actually fly for RYR yourself? Thought not.
It doesn't sound all that bad at all to me and I cannot wait to get started on my TR later in the year. The afforementioned names above need to lay off all the newly qualified pilots out there, after all, it wasn't their fault that the world went and decided to screw itself just as they got out of training was it? And don't be ridiculous when you say everyone should go get a job painting or stacking shelves instead, if you were in the same position where the only option was to front up 30k ( or 32,725euros for you nit pickers as i'm sure afforementioned are) to fly for the biggest LCC in Europe, of course you would take it, if you wouldn't you're obviously not committed enough to aviation in order to try and do everything humanly possible to get into that RHS. In which case, I feel for the airlines you work for.
It doesn't sound all that bad at all to me and I cannot wait to get started on my TR later in the year. The afforementioned names above need to lay off all the newly qualified pilots out there, after all, it wasn't their fault that the world went and decided to screw itself just as they got out of training was it? And don't be ridiculous when you say everyone should go get a job painting or stacking shelves instead, if you were in the same position where the only option was to front up 30k ( or 32,725euros for you nit pickers as i'm sure afforementioned are) to fly for the biggest LCC in Europe, of course you would take it, if you wouldn't you're obviously not committed enough to aviation in order to try and do everything humanly possible to get into that RHS. In which case, I feel for the airlines you work for.
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N739FC,
sorry to tell you but this has been the case for nearly a year now.
Every fATPL person I know who has graduated in the last 18 months has had an FR assessment in EMA. Thats around 15-20 pilots. Some are pilots who have won awards for their flying.
None successful.
Perhaps FR demand RAF fast jet standard applicants. Or perhaps they are charging for assesments when they have no jobs.
EK
sorry to tell you but this has been the case for nearly a year now.
Every fATPL person I know who has graduated in the last 18 months has had an FR assessment in EMA. Thats around 15-20 pilots. Some are pilots who have won awards for their flying.
None successful.
Perhaps FR demand RAF fast jet standard applicants. Or perhaps they are charging for assesments when they have no jobs.
EK
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EK4457,
This hasn't been the case for almost a year, I think only in the past couple of months has recruitment for RYR really slowed. I have been hearing of succesfull applicants up until about may this year, albeit they have passed selection, but haven't as yet been given a confirmed start date for TR, which looks most likely now that this won't be until april earliest next year. A lot of it probably also comes down to which FTO you did your training at, as RYR I know like to select from a handful of FTO's that they know produce a high calibre of cadets.
This hasn't been the case for almost a year, I think only in the past couple of months has recruitment for RYR really slowed. I have been hearing of succesfull applicants up until about may this year, albeit they have passed selection, but haven't as yet been given a confirmed start date for TR, which looks most likely now that this won't be until april earliest next year. A lot of it probably also comes down to which FTO you did your training at, as RYR I know like to select from a handful of FTO's that they know produce a high calibre of cadets.
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anyone that pays for a type rating right now with the terms offered needs mental health care
They believe that paying for a type rating and then only being offered a contract is not such a bad thing
Every fATPL person I know who has graduated in the last 18 months has had an FR assessment in EMA. Thats around 15-20 pilots. Some are pilots who have won awards for their flying.
None successful
None successful
Running the assessment days almost certainly isn't a money maker when you consider the cost of running the simulator, the time of the interviewers etc. It was fairly common knowledge 6 months ago that the spate of recruitment was coming to an end in the Spring. I was successful at about that time. I suppose recruitment has slowed and now stopped because of the looming winter and the fact that the TR courses are full until the end of the year.
It depends what you're comparing it with, stacking shelves at Tesco, then it's VERY well payed
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I am not saying you'll feel loved at Ryanair, but it's not all bad.
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Running the assessment days almost certainly isn't a money maker when you consider the cost of running the simulator, the time of the interviewers etc
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Surely if BRK pilots are not guaranteed a minimum number of hours in their contracts then recruitment can continue without reserve?
If I were FR, I would be seeking an infinite number of BRK Cadets, all paying generously for their TR. (And still they would come!!)
Once recruited, 5-10 hours per month would be the new order of the day! The passengers will continue to enjoy heavily subsidised seats courtesy of the Cadet in the Co's seat!
Perhaps MOL has greater integrity than I gave him credit for?! I'd be keeping the tills ringing!
If I were FR, I would be seeking an infinite number of BRK Cadets, all paying generously for their TR. (And still they would come!!)
Once recruited, 5-10 hours per month would be the new order of the day! The passengers will continue to enjoy heavily subsidised seats courtesy of the Cadet in the Co's seat!
Perhaps MOL has greater integrity than I gave him credit for?! I'd be keeping the tills ringing!
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smiler68, it doesn't sound that bad to you because you know no better and you will take any offer no matter how bad, sadly the attitude you describe as committed is what mickey mouth uses to exploit you. We'll speek agin in 10 years or maybe 2 and see if you have the same opinion.
Best of luck to all those looking for work in these tough times and for the record I missed out on a fully paid cadetship/atpl course because of Sept 11th so I need no lessons on hard times. I worked 7 days a week scraping hours instructing and doing all the jobs described above. All I'm saying is go into it with your eyes open and not just your wallets!!!
Best of luck to all those looking for work in these tough times and for the record I missed out on a fully paid cadetship/atpl course because of Sept 11th so I need no lessons on hard times. I worked 7 days a week scraping hours instructing and doing all the jobs described above. All I'm saying is go into it with your eyes open and not just your wallets!!!
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"All I'm saying is go into it with your eyes open and not just your wallets!!!"
Credit is getting much harder to secure. It's poetic justice that just as hard times gave rise to these dreadful 'pay your dowry' schemes it will also see their demise.
(Assuming the bank of Mum and Dad is not willing to pay!)
Enough; I'm off down 'Bar Med' anyone coming?
Credit is getting much harder to secure. It's poetic justice that just as hard times gave rise to these dreadful 'pay your dowry' schemes it will also see their demise.
(Assuming the bank of Mum and Dad is not willing to pay!)
Enough; I'm off down 'Bar Med' anyone coming?
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Surely if BRK pilots are not guaranteed a minimum number of hours in their contracts then recruitment can continue without reserve?
We know that there are few jobs out there and the economy is unlikely to pick up until 2011 when hundreds of qualified pilots will be applying for the trickle of jobs when recuitment resumes.
I was thinking about the net position after 2 years :-
Option 1: Flying Instructor, if you can find one in the slowdown.
Potential income over 2 years (including 2 winters): £17K.
Net income after paying for FIR: £10K +/-.
Total hours: 1250 SEP +/-.
Other issues: Don't pay to keep current. Very employable, but mainly to TP operators. May have to move to find an FI position. You won't feel loved.
Option 2: Ordinary Job, if you can find one. Have you tried?!
Potential income over 2 years: £30-40K.
Total hours: 250 SEP +/-.
Other issues: Must pay to keep current. Employable in good times. Will wish you were flying.
Option 3: Ryanair.
Potential income over 2 years including wait for TR to start: £60K +/-.
Net income after paying for TR: £30K +/-.
Total hours: 250 SEP; 1200 +/- on type.
Other issues: Nearly in a position to unfreeze ATPL. Very employable to all airlines. Probably have to live abroad. You won't feel loved.
Okay, so these are rough figures and generalised, but even if the income and hours are not always achieved, I think they demonstrate that paying to join FR isn't the end of the world. In many ways it's a heck of a lot better than trying to get an ordinary job, which isn't easy because of the recession.
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Ek4457 And N739fc
EK4457 "Every fATPL person I know who has graduated in the last 18 months has had an FR assessment in EMA. Thats around 15-20 pilots. Some are pilots who have won awards for their flying. None successful"
Either you know very low standard pilots or this is completely false. I personally know 3 guys who had interviews in Sept/October last year and were on the first few TRs this year. Infact one sat his Supernumaries with me a few week ago and is now doing his line training! So your lying my friend.
N739FC, No you've misunderstood me. Perhaps it was my phrasing of the last few posts. They have now stopped recruiting. If you had / have an interview (coming up) that is STILL valid. If you are successful you will be told your start date is around Nov time, im guessing. However if you try to apply now, you cant. Just because you went to assessment and no one got in, well without trying to offend you - none of you reached the minimum standard. Thats life im afraid. Maybe you all had a bad day.
What with the industry as it is now with the massive influx of pilots, they can afford to be very picky.
So just to clarify once again if you have had an interview or have one booked, coming up - it is still valid you can still "get in" you just wont start until the end of the year. But all recruitment, if you havnt applied yet, is closed. Hope that clears it up!
Either you know very low standard pilots or this is completely false. I personally know 3 guys who had interviews in Sept/October last year and were on the first few TRs this year. Infact one sat his Supernumaries with me a few week ago and is now doing his line training! So your lying my friend.
N739FC, No you've misunderstood me. Perhaps it was my phrasing of the last few posts. They have now stopped recruiting. If you had / have an interview (coming up) that is STILL valid. If you are successful you will be told your start date is around Nov time, im guessing. However if you try to apply now, you cant. Just because you went to assessment and no one got in, well without trying to offend you - none of you reached the minimum standard. Thats life im afraid. Maybe you all had a bad day.
What with the industry as it is now with the massive influx of pilots, they can afford to be very picky.
So just to clarify once again if you have had an interview or have one booked, coming up - it is still valid you can still "get in" you just wont start until the end of the year. But all recruitment, if you havnt applied yet, is closed. Hope that clears it up!
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CommandB: Appreciate all the input you've been having, a rare thing around here when everyone loves to jump on the anti-RYR bandwaggon. Just one question though... burl mentioned the postponement of TR courses with cancellation of all this years ones and it's looking like end of 2010 or beginning of 2011 for all those cadets selected from spring onwards. I ask because I've now heard this word of mouth twice and on here but you say people are starting in Nov/Dec, or at least being told that still. Know anything about that?
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@Zyox I have a TR coming up in Oct so clearly not all courses are cancelled.
@EK4457 I talked to the recruitment lady at bfsaa (one of two recruitment agencys working with RYR) and according to her about 50% of all the applicants manage to get an assessement and only 5-8% get an TR offer.
@blackred1443 and MVE I believe that the topic was "Are Ryanair still taking on FOs?" and not "If you buy a TR you are an idiot"
@EK4457 I talked to the recruitment lady at bfsaa (one of two recruitment agencys working with RYR) and according to her about 50% of all the applicants manage to get an assessement and only 5-8% get an TR offer.
@blackred1443 and MVE I believe that the topic was "Are Ryanair still taking on FOs?" and not "If you buy a TR you are an idiot"
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@Swinglow This is what I'm trying to find out :/ I've been hearing all 2009 courses postponed like as burl posted. Very much hope is a rumour but like I said... trying to find out So unfortunately it's not "clear" at all.
So unfortunately it's not "clear" at all.