Worth Doing an Instructor Rating during Credit Crunch???
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You'd Be Mad To Go Fi Without A Job Agreed
I agree with spanner and must add the following: Don't do it, unless you have a job agreed at least in principle before hand! It is all very well a 747 Capt posting that he started as a 152 instructor and look where he is now, but that is from someone who probably hasn't looked at PPL instruction recently. Misinformed and poor advice is the last thing you need after the debt and expense of a FATPL and another £7k debt and at best a part time job is not going to help you.
There really are no FI jobs at the moment, there were some when this thread started, but that was when all the guys who couldn't get into airlines thought quick enough to start an FI course instead, they have all graduated now and hovered up the few jobs remaining, many are unemployed or working part time making less than £100/week.
My local school normally has trouble recruiting full time FIs due to location, but is now receiving daily enquiries from instructors looking for jobs, even from airline guys who have had their hrs drasticly cut and looking to keep flying, or who fear redundancy.
Sorry to be so negative, but I am well placed to tell your the true situation. Please consider your situation carefully, perhaps the school you are enrolled with has offered a job at the end? Either way, best of luck.
There really are no FI jobs at the moment, there were some when this thread started, but that was when all the guys who couldn't get into airlines thought quick enough to start an FI course instead, they have all graduated now and hovered up the few jobs remaining, many are unemployed or working part time making less than £100/week.
My local school normally has trouble recruiting full time FIs due to location, but is now receiving daily enquiries from instructors looking for jobs, even from airline guys who have had their hrs drasticly cut and looking to keep flying, or who fear redundancy.
Sorry to be so negative, but I am well placed to tell your the true situation. Please consider your situation carefully, perhaps the school you are enrolled with has offered a job at the end? Either way, best of luck.
Last edited by ewsd02; 9th Mar 2009 at 09:03. Reason: this need to be put more forcefully to help the guy!
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there are jobs...
Guys and girls; honestly there are FI jobs out there.. ok; i may be a slightly experienced instructor but..
very recently relocated to the Derby area and thought i would like some very part time FI work.. knowing nothing about the local schools etc as have not been in this area in my life; looked at vfr chart for nearest airfields; then found schools on internet and emailed school explaining myself and was told let us know when you can come in for chat. did the same at another location. as it turns out will be doing part time FI work at a school where i used to work. all his scouting around took all of ten minutes without doing more than typing on a keyboard and picking up a phone. I made 3 approaches to schools and got 3 positive responses.
Believe me i am nothing special so if i can find work you lot can.. do the FI course.
very recently relocated to the Derby area and thought i would like some very part time FI work.. knowing nothing about the local schools etc as have not been in this area in my life; looked at vfr chart for nearest airfields; then found schools on internet and emailed school explaining myself and was told let us know when you can come in for chat. did the same at another location. as it turns out will be doing part time FI work at a school where i used to work. all his scouting around took all of ten minutes without doing more than typing on a keyboard and picking up a phone. I made 3 approaches to schools and got 3 positive responses.
Believe me i am nothing special so if i can find work you lot can.. do the FI course.
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Mile High Nutcase
Ask yourself some questions and answer them brutally honestly.
1. Can I afford the money for the FI rating, along with the time needed to invest in myself?
2. If there was no option of ever flying for an airline, would I seriously consider it as a career choice?
3. Do I really want to do this? Can I cope with teaching, spending an entire day doing circuits for the umpteenth time with someone I wouldn't even consider sharing a beer with outside of work?
4. Am I capable of enjoying instructing regardless of aeroplane type, student type, weather, lack of money?
5. Am I going to become trapped into PPL instructing due to lack of funds? Do I have a get out if it should be required?
6. Did I want to instruct before the market turned belly up?
Ask yourself some questions and answer them brutally honestly.
1. Can I afford the money for the FI rating, along with the time needed to invest in myself?
2. If there was no option of ever flying for an airline, would I seriously consider it as a career choice?
3. Do I really want to do this? Can I cope with teaching, spending an entire day doing circuits for the umpteenth time with someone I wouldn't even consider sharing a beer with outside of work?
4. Am I capable of enjoying instructing regardless of aeroplane type, student type, weather, lack of money?
5. Am I going to become trapped into PPL instructing due to lack of funds? Do I have a get out if it should be required?
6. Did I want to instruct before the market turned belly up?
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The guy who started this thread is asking whether it is worth him doing an FIC being that there are no airline jobs, so he's looking to build hrs fast and earn some kind of a living. Part time isn't going to achieve either of these points. £7k for 5hrs a week flying? Not worth it, and only going to worsen his financial issues.
Yes, flying schools will always be keen to add experienced instructors to their part time list because they are under no obligation to provide flying for them and can use them during busy times.
I've already said my piece, and refer back to my last post.
Yes, flying schools will always be keen to add experienced instructors to their part time list because they are under no obligation to provide flying for them and can use them during busy times.
I've already said my piece, and refer back to my last post.
Its dying on its backside in Instructor land.
It'll be back down to no retainers and £10 an hour by Christmas. There are already too many reports of FIC holders offering to work for free.
Run a mile.
WWW
It'll be back down to no retainers and £10 an hour by Christmas. There are already too many reports of FIC holders offering to work for free.
Run a mile.
WWW
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Damp Down Expectations
Its maybe not the best time to start work as an FI although its really a question of your own personal circumstances and whether you have any offers of work
WWW is tryng to damp down expectations so that people dont waste money and get disappointed but that said none of us know what the future holds..
Some people were saying that fuel would now be beyond $200 last Xmas .. just goes to show that even the 'experts' get it wrong
WWW is tryng to damp down expectations so that people dont waste money and get disappointed but that said none of us know what the future holds..
Some people were saying that fuel would now be beyond $200 last Xmas .. just goes to show that even the 'experts' get it wrong
And some of us was saying that the oil price was a sideshow and the real issue was the looming Depression...
There is not a cat in hells chance of MORE people deciding to do a PPL course in 2010 than in 2008 and there's not much more chance of any existing FI's getting jobs up the ladder from instructing. So where's the vacancies coming from for all these new FI's? The FIC courses and examiners have been very busy for a year.
The supply pump is flat out but I fear the demand pump is seizing.
WWW
There is not a cat in hells chance of MORE people deciding to do a PPL course in 2010 than in 2008 and there's not much more chance of any existing FI's getting jobs up the ladder from instructing. So where's the vacancies coming from for all these new FI's? The FIC courses and examiners have been very busy for a year.
The supply pump is flat out but I fear the demand pump is seizing.
WWW
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don't waste your time to become a flight instructor.
it 's not a type rating and no jet time.
flight instructors are paid less 2000$/month, when they fly!!!
and you may be asked to fly in china, asia,...
keep your money, and keep your IR current for now.
it 's not a type rating and no jet time.
flight instructors are paid less 2000$/month, when they fly!!!
and you may be asked to fly in china, asia,...
keep your money, and keep your IR current for now.
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A tough decision! I can only reiterate what others have said before me but if it was me in the <250hrs fATPL position I'd probably just sit tight and keep my IR current for the next year or two. Well, actually I'd look overseas for a bit of adventure, but that option doesn't suit a lot of people!
I wouldn't be looking at instructing as a means of earning money, or indeed building hours at the moment. I would personally see it as an opportunity to get maybe 10 hours a month to keep reasonably current and also to meet contacts. It will also look better a few years down the line when you go for an interview - at least it looks as though you tried to find work rather than sitting on your arse!! If you can afford 7k without taking a loan I'd say do it. If you can't - don't!!
I wouldn't be looking at instructing as a means of earning money, or indeed building hours at the moment. I would personally see it as an opportunity to get maybe 10 hours a month to keep reasonably current and also to meet contacts. It will also look better a few years down the line when you go for an interview - at least it looks as though you tried to find work rather than sitting on your arse!! If you can afford 7k without taking a loan I'd say do it. If you can't - don't!!
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Thanks for all your comments Gentlemen
securing a job before completing the FI course is almost impossible at the moment. I've spoken to the chief instructor on the phone at my school (pretending that i was already qualified FI looking for work) and was told i would only be considered for a job if the course is completed with them (at this point he did not know i was looking to start an FI course so he wasn't trying to sell his product to me). Full time positions were full last month but part time is and will be available in the coming months.
At this time my situation is that I would want to work part time cos i couldn't survive on full time salary. i already have a full time job which i can keep and fly almost all day everyday with.
answers to Andy R's questions answered brutally honestly.
1. Can I afford the money for the FI rating, along with the time needed to invest in myself? At this time Yes. My current job allows me to have multiple days off in a row, i still have loads of annual leave to take, I have the 7k for the course which took me only 20 months to save. Do not have large amounts of debt.
2. If there was no option of ever flying for an airline, would I seriously consider it as a career choice? Yes i would and truth be told I did when i first started training. Obviously i would love to fly an A380 one day or even concorde (if they bring it out of retirement) but IF i never ever get a job in an airline (and i have to be REALLY unlucky for that), I can be content with flying a C152 at 2000ft. My passion, determination comes from flying not walking around an airport in a fancy uniform. I'm not one of those poncy wannabees that will say ''I spent daddy's 80k on a fATPL, means i'm a qualified airline pilot. sitting in a cessna is beneath me..Er captain can i please ask the cabin crew for a coffee please sir...No you cant shut up!) As a career i want to advance and so CPL / IR instruction will always be on the table as well as examining and aerobatics.
3. Do I really want to do this? Can I cope with teaching, spending an entire day doing circuits for the umpteenth time with someone I wouldn't even consider sharing a beer with outside of work? I am a very patient person i have been told. hen i did my MCC, the instructor was a captain on a 767 and he said ''I have the perfect flight deck attitude''. he was referring to the fact that whether we were in S&L flight or dealing with emergencies, the tone of my voice stayed at a neutral level throughout (something i never realised until he told me). So i think i do have the patience and the attitude for the work.
4. Am I capable of enjoying instructing regardless of aeroplane type, student type, weather, lack of money? I love flying different types of airplanes, Weather i dont mind thanks to my CPL instructor who decided to fly in very sporting weather in the winter of 2008, i loved it. I think i'm quite a sociable guy so student types wouldn't bother me. I'm not prejudiced against anyone at all.
5. Am I going to become trapped into PPL instructing due to lack of funds? Do I have a get out if it should be required? I would definately move up the ladder and not just stick with PPL instruction. my get out would be my current job.
6. Did I want to instruct before the market turned belly up? It was always on the table. when i finished my fATPL i always said i try the airlines first and if nothing came along for say 6 months or so or would do instructing.
I'm not going down this route to build hours only but to do something about a career that i've chosen. This recession is probably going to last about 5 years and i want to make the most of it, otherwise when the upturn is upon us, i'll be competing with thousands of fATPL holders all the same boat as me.
I dont want to pay for a type rating without a guaranteed job at the end of it and i Refuse to pay for line training (i'm morally against it).
My decision is that i'm going to take a dive and do the course simply because i dont see myself loosing anything (except 7k but hey money comes, money goes. I worked for it so i deserve to spend it) but i only see gaining a rating, gaining valuable experience.
Am i making sense? Do people see valid points and reasons in this post as to how i've come to this decision.
Regards
MHN
At this time my situation is that I would want to work part time cos i couldn't survive on full time salary. i already have a full time job which i can keep and fly almost all day everyday with.
answers to Andy R's questions answered brutally honestly.
1. Can I afford the money for the FI rating, along with the time needed to invest in myself? At this time Yes. My current job allows me to have multiple days off in a row, i still have loads of annual leave to take, I have the 7k for the course which took me only 20 months to save. Do not have large amounts of debt.
2. If there was no option of ever flying for an airline, would I seriously consider it as a career choice? Yes i would and truth be told I did when i first started training. Obviously i would love to fly an A380 one day or even concorde (if they bring it out of retirement) but IF i never ever get a job in an airline (and i have to be REALLY unlucky for that), I can be content with flying a C152 at 2000ft. My passion, determination comes from flying not walking around an airport in a fancy uniform. I'm not one of those poncy wannabees that will say ''I spent daddy's 80k on a fATPL, means i'm a qualified airline pilot. sitting in a cessna is beneath me..Er captain can i please ask the cabin crew for a coffee please sir...No you cant shut up!) As a career i want to advance and so CPL / IR instruction will always be on the table as well as examining and aerobatics.
3. Do I really want to do this? Can I cope with teaching, spending an entire day doing circuits for the umpteenth time with someone I wouldn't even consider sharing a beer with outside of work? I am a very patient person i have been told. hen i did my MCC, the instructor was a captain on a 767 and he said ''I have the perfect flight deck attitude''. he was referring to the fact that whether we were in S&L flight or dealing with emergencies, the tone of my voice stayed at a neutral level throughout (something i never realised until he told me). So i think i do have the patience and the attitude for the work.
4. Am I capable of enjoying instructing regardless of aeroplane type, student type, weather, lack of money? I love flying different types of airplanes, Weather i dont mind thanks to my CPL instructor who decided to fly in very sporting weather in the winter of 2008, i loved it. I think i'm quite a sociable guy so student types wouldn't bother me. I'm not prejudiced against anyone at all.
5. Am I going to become trapped into PPL instructing due to lack of funds? Do I have a get out if it should be required? I would definately move up the ladder and not just stick with PPL instruction. my get out would be my current job.
6. Did I want to instruct before the market turned belly up? It was always on the table. when i finished my fATPL i always said i try the airlines first and if nothing came along for say 6 months or so or would do instructing.
I'm not going down this route to build hours only but to do something about a career that i've chosen. This recession is probably going to last about 5 years and i want to make the most of it, otherwise when the upturn is upon us, i'll be competing with thousands of fATPL holders all the same boat as me.
I dont want to pay for a type rating without a guaranteed job at the end of it and i Refuse to pay for line training (i'm morally against it).
My decision is that i'm going to take a dive and do the course simply because i dont see myself loosing anything (except 7k but hey money comes, money goes. I worked for it so i deserve to spend it) but i only see gaining a rating, gaining valuable experience.
Am i making sense? Do people see valid points and reasons in this post as to how i've come to this decision.
Regards
MHN
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Read this post in Flying Instructor forum
March 2009 - Instructing - what are we all getting paid
http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...ting-paid.html
http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...ting-paid.html
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yes do not waste your time by taking the FIC...
I am a FI, got a job a in FTO, well paid, I fly a lot more than when I was a good boy improving my skills on flight simulator (what a joke!). Flight school may pay IRI/CRI course if you want.
Stay at home, flying hours are not important.
Companies prefer FFS hours, good value.
In the same time I get experience, relationship (very important), and maintain my skills.
Thanks to that, I wait for TR course (paid by the company) cause I met a friend.
FI does not help you to find right seat in a big plane right away, but indirectly for sure.
but like otthers said, stay at home, other youngs will seriously think and take the opportunity.
I am a FI, got a job a in FTO, well paid, I fly a lot more than when I was a good boy improving my skills on flight simulator (what a joke!). Flight school may pay IRI/CRI course if you want.
Stay at home, flying hours are not important.
Companies prefer FFS hours, good value.
In the same time I get experience, relationship (very important), and maintain my skills.
Thanks to that, I wait for TR course (paid by the company) cause I met a friend.
FI does not help you to find right seat in a big plane right away, but indirectly for sure.
but like otthers said, stay at home, other youngs will seriously think and take the opportunity.
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Probably worth just keeping current at the moment to be honest. Popped in to Compton Abbas the other week and just got attitude with regard to insructor vacancies! Im not actually looking for FI work ( dont even have the rating) but just getting a feel for whats about. Whats on here is true! Sod all!
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Shame about the attitude, but perhaps they are getting tired of people coming round looking for jobs. Still, its no excuse. Give it 2 years and places like that will be crying out (again) for instructors and won't let you leave without signing up. Until then, best to sit tight and enjoy your flying.
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Well people,I finally have the answer to my question.
Is it worth doing an Instructor Rating during the Credit Crunch??
Answer ..... YES it definately is..
I started the course in April, finshed 7-8 weeks later.
A week and a half after completing the course, i got a phone call from the school saying they need me for part time instructor work (which is exactly what i wanted).
The course itself taught me loads of stuff and also refreshed all the studies i done ages ago.
All in all i dont think i've lost out on anything (except 6.5k which didn't hurt)
Regards
MHN
Is it worth doing an Instructor Rating during the Credit Crunch??
Answer ..... YES it definately is..
I started the course in April, finshed 7-8 weeks later.
A week and a half after completing the course, i got a phone call from the school saying they need me for part time instructor work (which is exactly what i wanted).
The course itself taught me loads of stuff and also refreshed all the studies i done ages ago.
All in all i dont think i've lost out on anything (except 6.5k which didn't hurt)
Regards
MHN
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Well done mate, good for you. At least you will be able to exercise your privileges and build up some time in your log book.
Its the first step towards a career now.
Respect.
Its the first step towards a career now.
Respect.
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Well done mate, good for you. At least you will be able to exercise your privileges and build up some time in your log book.
Its the first step towards a career now.
Respect.
Its the first step towards a career now.
Respect.