You must be mad !
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You must be mad !
I know alot has been said on this matter but you are being stupid if you are willing to risk it all and become a "pilot"
Have a little read on this tread and come to your senses.....please.
Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc.(people trying to sell themselves)
There are people coming out of the woodwork trying to get jobs with alot of hours and experience. Do you still want to blow your money on a ATPL..............
Be very aware that the people on these sites saying "there are jobs" and its a "good idea" are without doubt the people you are going to hand your money to, trying to keep themselves in work. Who can blame them.
The fact that there are so many wannabees has created a market where you will work for free and be treated like sh.. all the time.
My present employer is treaterning me. "There are loads of pilots out there just waiting for your job" so I have to live on s..t wages in a dump of a west African country for what.....
Well you can have my job im sick of it. I am off after 20 years flying to do a business degree and make decent money .
I wish I had not wasted nearly half my life thinking flying would be profitable.
Good luck
Have a little read on this tread and come to your senses.....please.
Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc.(people trying to sell themselves)
There are people coming out of the woodwork trying to get jobs with alot of hours and experience. Do you still want to blow your money on a ATPL..............
Be very aware that the people on these sites saying "there are jobs" and its a "good idea" are without doubt the people you are going to hand your money to, trying to keep themselves in work. Who can blame them.
The fact that there are so many wannabees has created a market where you will work for free and be treated like sh.. all the time.
My present employer is treaterning me. "There are loads of pilots out there just waiting for your job" so I have to live on s..t wages in a dump of a west African country for what.....
Well you can have my job im sick of it. I am off after 20 years flying to do a business degree and make decent money .
I wish I had not wasted nearly half my life thinking flying would be profitable.
Good luck
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yuccccccI agree with you...
Sometimes, I I'd like to do my business seriously, make money and fly with my own plane the week end,( I am taking a course in economic by distance in case). I met a lot of guys who are doing this at the moment.
Best business ? a flight school, then a trto lol
My advice is to have a deadline. I mean, if you start a 20 y/o and don't find a job at 30 y/o, then give up and start a business.
Time flies, a plane is a plane (cessna 152 to boeing, we share the same sky after all, don't we ?), with the time, family (wife and children) becomes more important, that's THE life, live just for work and you'll miss a lot of great things too.
Pilot is a great job of course, but do studies (others studies I mean) at the same time, get another plan in the case (2009 will be very hard...be aware), and have a deadline is what I did.
The positive thing is with a deadline you'll be motivated to find a job quickly anywhere because you focus on an objective.
And plus, even you are a pilot you never are happy lol
You fly on cessna 152? You want Turboprop.
You fly on turboprop, you leave your job for a 737/320...
You are on 320/737, you want a 777/A340...
You are on 777/340, you want the A380...so...
That's normal, humans being need somethings news to live.
Sometimes, I I'd like to do my business seriously, make money and fly with my own plane the week end,( I am taking a course in economic by distance in case). I met a lot of guys who are doing this at the moment.
Best business ? a flight school, then a trto lol
My advice is to have a deadline. I mean, if you start a 20 y/o and don't find a job at 30 y/o, then give up and start a business.
Time flies, a plane is a plane (cessna 152 to boeing, we share the same sky after all, don't we ?), with the time, family (wife and children) becomes more important, that's THE life, live just for work and you'll miss a lot of great things too.
Pilot is a great job of course, but do studies (others studies I mean) at the same time, get another plan in the case (2009 will be very hard...be aware), and have a deadline is what I did.
The positive thing is with a deadline you'll be motivated to find a job quickly anywhere because you focus on an objective.
And plus, even you are a pilot you never are happy lol
You fly on cessna 152? You want Turboprop.
You fly on turboprop, you leave your job for a 737/320...
You are on 320/737, you want a 777/A340...
You are on 777/340, you want the A380...so...
That's normal, humans being need somethings news to live.
Last edited by VNA Lotus; 22nd Jun 2010 at 09:40.
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Brownbaron,
I'm sorry your employer has such a ****e attitude towards the people that help earn the revenue that pays his wages, but I think your post is overly pessimistic. If even 30% of the projected fleet growth for the next 20 years happens it will create demand for a lot of new pilots. The fact that the job market is shrinking right now does not negate this fact. Good timing and sound financial planning (read that as "avoid or minimize training debt and save a good chunk of what you eventually earn") are the keys to success, not abandoning the dream. It is a cyclical industry and very sad that this is news to so many already in it.
There are plenty of other posts with viewpoints about how and when to jump in, so I won't make another one here, but with 3% retiring every year, 60% of existing pilots need to be replaced over the next 20 years even if there is no fleet expansion. Today is a very dark day, but it won't always be so.
I'm sorry your employer has such a ****e attitude towards the people that help earn the revenue that pays his wages, but I think your post is overly pessimistic. If even 30% of the projected fleet growth for the next 20 years happens it will create demand for a lot of new pilots. The fact that the job market is shrinking right now does not negate this fact. Good timing and sound financial planning (read that as "avoid or minimize training debt and save a good chunk of what you eventually earn") are the keys to success, not abandoning the dream. It is a cyclical industry and very sad that this is news to so many already in it.
There are plenty of other posts with viewpoints about how and when to jump in, so I won't make another one here, but with 3% retiring every year, 60% of existing pilots need to be replaced over the next 20 years even if there is no fleet expansion. Today is a very dark day, but it won't always be so.
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I would advise all wannabes to get your safety net established before you go about your aviation endeavors. Be wise! Listen and observe more than you speak. Analyze your environment, global economy and make informed and intelligent moves. Your career success is like a chess game. Pick your moves carefully and always be a few steps ahead of the game.
Cheers
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So, the world outside of flying is all sweetness and light eh Brownbaron? Well it's been 4-5 years since I was last using my business degree to do the whole 9-5 thing. Back then it wasn't that great; in fact sitting in an office was pretty crap to be honest. At least flying is often (not always) fun and exciting. Can't say that about the office job.
Don't let him put you off. Now is a good time to be planning and saving for your flight training and give it a year and it might even be a sensible time to train.
Don't let him put you off. Now is a good time to be planning and saving for your flight training and give it a year and it might even be a sensible time to train.
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As others say.. if you have a back up career then you should be just fine and flying doesn't mean only flying for airlines, you could do several other things.. eg. instructing, it's not the best job you could ever get, but its flying.
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So, the world outside of flying is all sweetness and light eh Brownbaron? Well it's been 4-5 years since I was last using my business degree to do the whole 9-5 thing. Back then it wasn't that great; in fact sitting in an office was pretty crap to be honest. At least flying is often (not always) fun and exciting. Can't say that about the office job.
IMHO, if you want a stable career, make sure you have a skill and make your it is something that not everyone can do (Make sure you are GOOD at it too!!!!). The people who will survive in these down times are those who are always in demand.
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I did my training, not in any debt, I have another job I can do while I wait for employment. What's the problem?
Some of us don't have that kind of financial backing to be debt free at the end of a CPL/CFI/ATPL checkride. Not trying to be a pessimist here. More like realist...
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Lucky you not to be in debt....bank will be hunting me down soon! Just finished 3 months ago...talk about bad timing. Still even though its depressing now not having any job etc...it has to get better. Nothing else Id rather do.
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Good Luck.
There's one hell of a cold wind blowing and it's going to get a lot colder before it gets better!!
To Epsilonvaz.
Good for you, but others on here are not so lucky...... 
There's one hell of a cold wind blowing and it's going to get a lot colder before it gets better!!
To Epsilonvaz.
Good for you, but others on here are not so lucky......
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There are two types of advice you can find in Pprune forums...
xxx
There is the negative advice... do not start now - wait until things get better.
Generally, people with experience, i.e. pilots, give that advice.
Then there is the "GO FOR IT", get your fATPL now and take a €60000 mortgage.
That type of advice originates from other "wannabees" - with zero/zilch experience.
They just love to read theirselves and self-indulge in good news and dreams.
xxx
I just retired, so frankly, I could not care less.
You want my advice...? Wait for better days. Save you money.
I have "just a little bit of experience"... my first flying lesson was in 1959...
So, dont listen to me...
Happy contrails
xxx
There is the negative advice... do not start now - wait until things get better.
Generally, people with experience, i.e. pilots, give that advice.
Then there is the "GO FOR IT", get your fATPL now and take a €60000 mortgage.
That type of advice originates from other "wannabees" - with zero/zilch experience.
They just love to read theirselves and self-indulge in good news and dreams.
xxx
I just retired, so frankly, I could not care less.
You want my advice...? Wait for better days. Save you money.
I have "just a little bit of experience"... my first flying lesson was in 1959...
So, dont listen to me...
Happy contrails
Airline sponsorships to return in a few years they reckon?
Not if the Western Nations are now in the final run up to economic collapse they won't. It is only a matter of 30 years or less before implosion occurs. It happened several times during the history of Egypt. It happened to the Chinese Empire. In fact human history is littered with examples of civilisations that ran out of money and so were unaable to support their infrastructure. When it happens the end comes fast.
What is happening in the Western Nations today is no different to what happened in the late stages of the Roman Empire. Rome was strong as it expanded and as long as the wealth of the conquered lands was channelled into the centre. When Hadrian fixed the boundaries of the Empire the chance to pplunder wealth from outside ceased. From then on materials that came in from outside the Empire had to be paid for with money rather than taken by force of arms. Protecting stability on the borders was done by buying favours from neighboring tribes. As a result taxes had to go up. Inflation was rampant and the currency was continually being devalued.
Gradually the Empire simply ran out of money. As the centre declined so the provincial cities became stronger. When the control of the centre eventually failed the infrastructure started to collapse. The cities then started to fade as they could no longer engage in trsde for the raw materials that they needed. The countryside then ceased to supply the food that the cities required. The rest is history.
The analogy with the modern world is clear.
Or this may just be tough times that started in America but which Britain is best placed to ride out..
WWW
Don't Have Nightmares
Not if the Western Nations are now in the final run up to economic collapse they won't. It is only a matter of 30 years or less before implosion occurs. It happened several times during the history of Egypt. It happened to the Chinese Empire. In fact human history is littered with examples of civilisations that ran out of money and so were unaable to support their infrastructure. When it happens the end comes fast.
What is happening in the Western Nations today is no different to what happened in the late stages of the Roman Empire. Rome was strong as it expanded and as long as the wealth of the conquered lands was channelled into the centre. When Hadrian fixed the boundaries of the Empire the chance to pplunder wealth from outside ceased. From then on materials that came in from outside the Empire had to be paid for with money rather than taken by force of arms. Protecting stability on the borders was done by buying favours from neighboring tribes. As a result taxes had to go up. Inflation was rampant and the currency was continually being devalued.
Gradually the Empire simply ran out of money. As the centre declined so the provincial cities became stronger. When the control of the centre eventually failed the infrastructure started to collapse. The cities then started to fade as they could no longer engage in trsde for the raw materials that they needed. The countryside then ceased to supply the food that the cities required. The rest is history.
The analogy with the modern world is clear.
Or this may just be tough times that started in America but which Britain is best placed to ride out..
WWW
Don't Have Nightmares
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I can see many Oxford candidates being read this before bed by their rich parents and shivering under their Thomas the Tank Engine sheets.
Glass half empty or full WWW?
Glass half empty or full WWW?
Well, sometimes its useful to stand up straight and gaze upon the broader picture!
Here's a tip for 2011 - hyperinflation. Lets see how good my Nostradamus powers are...
WWW
Here's a tip for 2011 - hyperinflation. Lets see how good my Nostradamus powers are...
WWW
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Hi
I decided modular because of my family, this aviation cycle in general, avoid debt as much as possible and keep my full time career outside of aviation while training. Half way through an IR, will be debt free and sometime later next year will do the MCC/JOC in my own time.
When I looked at the integrated courses like Oxford, it was just too expensive, and I first looked 4 years ago after PPL. Just couldn't justify cost, I have no doubt the courses are very good. Family came first though and I just thought the bottom line is everyone is taking the same CAA exams and everyone has to meet that standard set irrespective of being integrated or modular.
Don't want to work for Ryanair and hand over 25K either. Assuming they may ask you to pay them to for typing ratings and not bond you. I would assume not many people who did borrow large sums of money for training cannot extend the borrowing much more to pay for those type ratings with employers who ask for it. Might be interesting to see what happens in this area, I originally assumed when starting out that all the employers paid for those type ratings, later to find out that was wrong.
If I new at the beginning what I know now regarding the industry, I may have considered keeping a PPL but being realistic I love flying and after spending 10 years in another industry it was about minimizing my risk and having that career to fall back on to be my own free person.
Good luck for those looking at the moment
I decided modular because of my family, this aviation cycle in general, avoid debt as much as possible and keep my full time career outside of aviation while training. Half way through an IR, will be debt free and sometime later next year will do the MCC/JOC in my own time.
When I looked at the integrated courses like Oxford, it was just too expensive, and I first looked 4 years ago after PPL. Just couldn't justify cost, I have no doubt the courses are very good. Family came first though and I just thought the bottom line is everyone is taking the same CAA exams and everyone has to meet that standard set irrespective of being integrated or modular.
Don't want to work for Ryanair and hand over 25K either. Assuming they may ask you to pay them to for typing ratings and not bond you. I would assume not many people who did borrow large sums of money for training cannot extend the borrowing much more to pay for those type ratings with employers who ask for it. Might be interesting to see what happens in this area, I originally assumed when starting out that all the employers paid for those type ratings, later to find out that was wrong.
If I new at the beginning what I know now regarding the industry, I may have considered keeping a PPL but being realistic I love flying and after spending 10 years in another industry it was about minimizing my risk and having that career to fall back on to be my own free person.
Good luck for those looking at the moment
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I think it is best to establish a safety net before abandoning everything and going for your dream of flying. I will also like you to take a very realistic view of the proffession before going in to it.
Do you have a family you are surpporting or will they be surpporting you during your training. Its not what it used to be and if you enter the wrong company the novelty soon wears off and it becomes a job not a passion and can quickly lead to disillusionment.
Do you have a family you are surpporting or will they be surpporting you during your training. Its not what it used to be and if you enter the wrong company the novelty soon wears off and it becomes a job not a passion and can quickly lead to disillusionment.