You must be mad !
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Here's something that will hopefully make people think a little.
A friend of mine who has 3000TT and multiple Citation ratings, was laid off recently. He found a job very luckily on a Lear 45. The company want a training bond of £20,000 up front, all of which, plus interest, they will pay back to him over two years. Which is fair enough and as he's not technically paying for a rating, it sits well with me.
He has an employment contract stating the bond conditions and a personal letter of guarantee from the MD and so far he has been turned down by 4 of the big money lenders on the high st. Now my point is....... if a situation like this is nearly impossible to raise funds for...... What chance is there of raising funds for newbies.
Pls save your money, take your time and keep an eye on the industry. DON'T get suckered by the propaganda rubbish spouting from the big schools.
A friend of mine who has 3000TT and multiple Citation ratings, was laid off recently. He found a job very luckily on a Lear 45. The company want a training bond of £20,000 up front, all of which, plus interest, they will pay back to him over two years. Which is fair enough and as he's not technically paying for a rating, it sits well with me.
He has an employment contract stating the bond conditions and a personal letter of guarantee from the MD and so far he has been turned down by 4 of the big money lenders on the high st. Now my point is....... if a situation like this is nearly impossible to raise funds for...... What chance is there of raising funds for newbies.
Pls save your money, take your time and keep an eye on the industry. DON'T get suckered by the propaganda rubbish spouting from the big schools.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Hang in there!
I was born in April 1941, 3 days before the city was bombed flat and 800 people killed. Things must have looked pretty bad for my parents and their little son - they must have wondered what sort of world they had brought me into. Well, I'm still here, and I've survived over 40 years in aviation. Its a great job and worth fighting for, so don't get too downhearted - things will improve and its better than working for a living!
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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My advice for those who love to fly and think shelling out thousands will make them happy is to save it, get a well paid job elsewhere and fly for fun. Garmin have ensured that private fliers can occupy much the same territory as commercial pilots these days so cut out the middleman hassles a commercial pilot is presented with (economic versus safety) and scratch the itch that way.
"Pilot" does not mean the same as it did just ten years ago. The percieved role is much different from the reality. Those who say it's amazing and wonderful are usually new or inexeperienced or just hopelessly delusional... or maybe just easily satisified? Quite frankly, looking at it with older and slightly more experienced eyes I'd say it must be hard to find the same pleasure from staring at an EADI for 6 hours a day after 40 years. Those who I know in that position are a good testiment to that assumption.
My hopes and aspirations have altered a fair bit in the last ten years of flying - but I guess you can never properly explain this to an eager wannabe, much less have them take it on board.
Kids don't listen, that's just life.
VFE.
"Pilot" does not mean the same as it did just ten years ago. The percieved role is much different from the reality. Those who say it's amazing and wonderful are usually new or inexeperienced or just hopelessly delusional... or maybe just easily satisified? Quite frankly, looking at it with older and slightly more experienced eyes I'd say it must be hard to find the same pleasure from staring at an EADI for 6 hours a day after 40 years. Those who I know in that position are a good testiment to that assumption.
My hopes and aspirations have altered a fair bit in the last ten years of flying - but I guess you can never properly explain this to an eager wannabe, much less have them take it on board.
Kids don't listen, that's just life.
VFE.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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FFS WWW, not only are you a great pilot and economist, you have now turned historian and sooth sayer, not to mention your natural ability in predicting the futur, is there any end to your talents?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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My advice for those who love to fly and think shelling out thousands will make them happy is to save it, get a well paid job elsewhere and fly for fun. Garmin have ensured that private fliers can occupy much the same territory as commercial pilots these days so cut out the middleman hassles a commercial pilot is presented with (economic versus safety) and scratch the itch that way.
"Pilot" does not mean the same as it did just ten years ago. The percieved role is much different from the reality. Those who say it's amazing and wonderful are usually new or inexeperienced or just hopelessly delusional... or maybe just easily satisified? Quite frankly, looking at it with older and slightly more experienced eyes I'd say it must be hard to find the same pleasure from staring at an EADI for 6 hours a day after 40 years. Those who I know in that position are a good testiment to that assumption.
My hopes and aspirations have altered a fair bit in the last ten years of flying - but I guess you can never properly explain this to an eager wannabe, much less have them take it on board.
Kids don't listen, that's just life.
"Pilot" does not mean the same as it did just ten years ago. The percieved role is much different from the reality. Those who say it's amazing and wonderful are usually new or inexeperienced or just hopelessly delusional... or maybe just easily satisified? Quite frankly, looking at it with older and slightly more experienced eyes I'd say it must be hard to find the same pleasure from staring at an EADI for 6 hours a day after 40 years. Those who I know in that position are a good testiment to that assumption.
My hopes and aspirations have altered a fair bit in the last ten years of flying - but I guess you can never properly explain this to an eager wannabe, much less have them take it on board.
Kids don't listen, that's just life.
Well as a new PPL holder, I have realized over the past few months that I just can't afford NOT to become a career pilot.
I will never, ever, be in a position to satisfy my appetite for the air privately with my salary from my current engineering job.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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So you will borrow in a time of emense global financial uncertainty?
As the title says: You must be mad!
VFE.
As the title says: You must be mad!
VFE.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Slipstream86,
At this stage it is my educated guess that you will still have to spend upwards of twenty grand to get the full rating. My advice to you will be to sit on the money for the meantime and see how this downturn goes. Or better still you can go to America and do your hour building at a significant cost reduction from UK.
Furhter down the line you would have met several pilots along the way who will give you a realistic view of the industry if you are unwilling to believe what you are beign told on these forums.
At this stage it is my educated guess that you will still have to spend upwards of twenty grand to get the full rating. My advice to you will be to sit on the money for the meantime and see how this downturn goes. Or better still you can go to America and do your hour building at a significant cost reduction from UK.
Furhter down the line you would have met several pilots along the way who will give you a realistic view of the industry if you are unwilling to believe what you are beign told on these forums.
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VFE is very right. At present time a new starter will never get rich with a pilot job and there are 75% chanses will never land a job.
Only on pprune there are 1000 wannabies and is estimated in europe only 2000 not employed pilots on the market most of them with type ratings.
Get rich with something else and enjoy aviation with biplanes or seaplanes, much more fun and much much less waste of monies.
Only on pprune there are 1000 wannabies and is estimated in europe only 2000 not employed pilots on the market most of them with type ratings.
Get rich with something else and enjoy aviation with biplanes or seaplanes, much more fun and much much less waste of monies.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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lol...I for the life of me never ever put the two words in the same sentence before...rich and pilot!!! 
I always thought flying was for the joy/thrill of it.....and to pay the rent at the same time, not to make money.
I always thought flying was for the joy/thrill of it.....and to pay the rent at the same time, not to make money.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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There is an article in this weeks FI that says in a few years airlines will have to start sponsorships again once the economic outlook becomes better.
I wouldn't believe anything FI says... they often blindly pass on marketing propaganda from the schools as "news".
Journalistic integrity and FI do not go hand-in-hand.
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As long as I will be able to fly and earn money towards normal living I'll be happy, another thing is, do you want to be a pilot for the money or because of the fact that you're in the air? I know a guy who learns to fly (in Poland) and absolutely hates it, but he does it, so he can earn good money in the future, anyways good luck to him. I don't see doing something you don't like just for the money. Take the fact that you're going to be doing it for a long, long time into account. There are millions different careers in which you could earn even better money and you might like them. You can surely find a good job as a pilot and earn good money, but at first you have to find that first job, which will let you gain experience and that will let you find a better job.
RSFTO, it's not all about the money, is it?
I also don't believe that the airlines will start sponsorships again and if they do then it won't be many airlines.
RSFTO, it's not all about the money, is it?
I also don't believe that the airlines will start sponsorships again and if they do then it won't be many airlines.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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I think the point being made is that "love of flying" is what see's many (including myself) take to the air for less than decent money. If money is what you like then look elsewhere but more importantly - if "love of flying" is the overriding emotion then fly for fun and save yourself lots of hassle and disappointments. I only fly because I love it - not for money - this love will be abused by those seeking to make money unless you tread very carefully. Luckily, I have not allowed myself to fall into that trap due to my ambition and sights being lower... maybe that is the pitfall many fall into thus only ever becoming disappointed when they discover the harsh realities of pilot life?
VFE.
VFE.
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MY LOVE OF FLYING happens when I fly a biplane or a seaplane or I do aerobatics.
Anything else I do it FOR THE MONIES ONLY, and if the monies are not enough I DO NOT DO IT.
Anything else I do it FOR THE MONIES ONLY, and if the monies are not enough I DO NOT DO IT.
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About being mad... I personally know people leaving much more paid jobs to become pilots at age +30 (...+35 and even +40!!!). THEY MUST BE MAD! (and I bet many of them are reading here right now)
I'm not saying that I don't like my job, but as said before, flying with the MCP is not fun... you're just in the air pushing buttons!
main reason why I started is because now that I'm 28 this is the easiest way for me to make some decent money... but if you have a 10000euro/month job and you're willing to change your life becoming a "cool professional pilot" (please read "slave of an airline"), please contact me and we'll switch job.
Than with your nice salary I'll buy a small cessna (wich I haven't been flying for almost 6 months due to my pilot job!) and I will really enjoy my passion for flying...
Be smart... don't be mad!
I'm not saying that I don't like my job, but as said before, flying with the MCP is not fun... you're just in the air pushing buttons!
main reason why I started is because now that I'm 28 this is the easiest way for me to make some decent money... but if you have a 10000euro/month job and you're willing to change your life becoming a "cool professional pilot" (please read "slave of an airline"), please contact me and we'll switch job.
Than with your nice salary I'll buy a small cessna (wich I haven't been flying for almost 6 months due to my pilot job!) and I will really enjoy my passion for flying...
Be smart... don't be mad!
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So you will borrow in a time of emense global financial uncertainty?
As the title says: You must be mad!
VFE.
As the title says: You must be mad!
VFE.
I love private flying. I agree with all on here who say that private flying should be the most rewarding flying any pilot can do. As an average earner, Im not really ever going to be in a position to enjoy private flying as much as my heart desires (all day, every day if I could).
My ambitions have shifted somewhat over the last year. I started as an aspiring airline pilot. I just want to do as much hands on flying as I can possibly do now. I like to think that im in this game for the right reasons and not Ray Bans & stripes!
