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Airline Training Partnership (Merged)

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Airline Training Partnership (Merged)

Old 6th Nov 2008, 14:46
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southampton
Posts: 66
OK, wasn't going to admit it but here goes. I recently attended assessment for the ATP scheme. I was one of only two English candidates out of 7 people. That alone says something about the level of mistrust about this scheme. All but 2 of the candidates present were clueless Greeks and Italians who were quite truly living in cloud cuckoo land with their belief that they would be walking straight into a jet job (no offence intended). The top notch sales pitch delivered over lunch does wonder! There was a 50 question tech "test", which wasn't too bad in terms of difficultly but the hilarious thing is we were all left in a room on our own discussing the answers! There was also a personality profile questionnaire. The standard type.

Over lunch, they discuss how Middle Eastern airlines are "begging" for pilots but tactically avoid stating how many people have been placed with airlines. Sadly, our European friends are very unsuspecting but for a native English speaker the Bull5hit factor is hard to ignore.

The sim session was interesting to say the least. Let’s just say it left me shocked to see how incapable even those with a thousand hours instructing are at manipulating a jet.

They got in touch with me very quickly and said I was the only one who showed the “right” skills and only I was being offered a place for next months course. As the days rolled by the story kept on changing. It went from one, to two, to three people (who attended the assessment at the same time as me) now starting the course. Wait a minute! I thought they were no good??? The way the story changed left a bitter taste in my mouth. It proved to me that by them stating I was the only good one that I would be extra keen on signing up, when the truth was far from that. I declined because I could no longer trust their word.

Last edited by Wannabe24; 6th Nov 2008 at 14:59.
Wannabe24 is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2008, 07:41
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: England
Posts: 0
Thumbs up

Thanks for posting that.

Can't say I'm in the least bit surprised but its useful for Wannabes to read about your experience.

Wee Weasley Welshman is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2008, 00:15
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: دبي
Age: 37
Posts: 19
Well, they must be doing something right. I understand they have 40 people going through their course next year.

Has anyone actually gone through this scheme yet and actually been offered a job anywhere? Their website states:

'Potential placement with our several airline partners...'
'AND SUBJECT TO SUCCESSFUL COURSE COMPLETION...ATP have several partner airlines waiting to take you on board!'
A320 Type Rating Training

Does anyone know who these airline partners are? Air Arabia is mentioned as one of them, but does anyone know anymore?
ed_boy is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2008, 17:14
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southampton
Age: 56
Posts: 198
Caveat Emptor

Do not pay for a TR without a job offer. The only TR scheme worth its salt is the Ryanair scheme which does offer a job subject to you passing all aspects of the TR course.

Please listen to the advice said so often before. Keep the money in the bank and wait for better times. They will come at some point so be financially ready for that day.

Do not pay for a TR without a job offer. Less than 500hrs on type is not worth much now. There are hundereds of pilots with thousands of hours on Airbus and Boeing family aircraft out there looking for jobs. You do not realistically stand a chance.

These are desperate times for newbies. There is a saying that desperate times mean desperate measures. It doesn't mean doing something stupid. Paying for a TR with no absolutely guaranteed (subject to passing the course) job I reckon counts as stupid.

Incidentally, I do work for Ryanair and they are not my first employer and they did pay for my TR. My experience of them over last 18mths has been nothing other than good and i don't fly with any FO who doesn't believe they are in the best place possible too.
IrishJetdriver is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2008, 21:59
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,271
Well done Wannabee24 for having the balls and coming out to admit what 'really' goes on in schemes like these. I'll be perfectly blunt here, but it's a general trend in aviation to see the same old molly-coddled trumpets turning up in abundance with a cheque book about the same size as the gap between their ears. I despair at the naivety of some people in this game, and this is where the TRTOs and FTOs play their trump cards. Only the other day I picked up a leading GA magazine that had a 5 or 6 page article on becoming an airline pilot. The chief head of spin at Oxford had been quoted saying how great a time it was to blow 70K in their direction - 'train in the downturn and be well placed for the upturn,' or some other shoite along those lines. I immediately pictured the phones ringing off their hooks at Kidlington - 'I want to be an airline pilot, tell BA I'm signing up now.' Once all that doesn't work, they'll trot off to the ATP scheme in order for their heads to be filled with more propaganda. I see the same old faces when I turned up for assessment at my current airline. Lots of money, but lacking in any real ability and most of all any common sense. It must be nice in La La land!
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2008, 21:03
  #46 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Hi chaps

It has been a while now since I frist posted my question about if anyone had heard any whiffs of the "full time position" offered upon completion of the easyjet/ATP scheme.

Has anyone any fresh news to throw into the mix?

Look forward to hearing your replies.

Captain Punishment is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2008, 22:06
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,169
PS: Get your place booked now. Seriously! Places are VERY limited. We can only take 4 trainees per month. Remember, this offer will not last long!
PPS: You can start your process today ... and pretty soon you'll be well on your way to being a qualified First Officer... or you can do nothing, and nothing will change.
And this is from the very professional companies website. Are they writing a love letter? PPS!? How embarrassing.
student88 is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2008, 22:07
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: london
Posts: 166
Captain Punishment... or should it be Sucker for Punishment?

Looks like the silence says everything. Airlines take advantage of schemes like this.

Failling revenue from ticket sales and sandwiches? What do we do?

Hmm, it seems that some people are willing to pay US to do a job we normally have to pay THEM for. WTF?! AMAZING!!! Get them signed up! Employment law? Oh, ok, so we just offer them short term contracts, get the money off them, bin them and get a whole load of new people in! Do we even need to carry passegers anymore?!

A lot of people don't like WWW posts, but, sadly, more often that not he is right. Do you want to create an industry where you will spend your whole career going from 6 month contract to 6 month contract? Is that the glamourous airline pilot job you've payed all this money for?
sharpclassic is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2008, 23:36
  #49 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Sharpclassic what a bunch of drivel. I had heard all this before, I am merely watching the space and have not signed up for the course, nor would I unless there was a cast iron offer on the table, hence why I am, like many others seeing if all the twoddle that ATP spin will ever actually materialise. If it does and I can confirm from a few unrelated sources I would think about it, until then the search goes on for anything that comes up. Believe it or not I am not sat around waiting for this lot to happen, but am keen to know if at all there is any positive that anyone has taken from the scheme.

Merely keeping an eye on things and keeping my options open just like the next man!
Captain Punishment is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2008, 09:55
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: .
Posts: 559
Quite apt that the website reads like a DFS advert as after completing the training it does sound like people are going to be sat back on the sofa sending CV's out to find a job!!

For this month only.............
one post only! is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2008, 10:22
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: دبي
Age: 37
Posts: 19
Rumour has it that some of the ATP cadets have been for interview with an airline in the middle east. Apparently the package is not that fantastic, but if true then surely it puts this scheme in a different light, if not, then its just another TR scheme and I would suggest the 40 cadets they supposedly have lined-up for next year will have to seriously consider their options.

There's mention about the 150 hours these guys get but the advert states upto 250 hrs & job placement available: http://m1.2mdn.net/1694568/AirlineTraining.gif Does the 250hrs happen ? Seems the job placement scheme 'could' be.

Perhaps someone from ATP would care to post on here and disperse some of the truth surrounding these rumours...
ed_boy is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2008, 11:59
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: kxxx
Posts: 25
Guys as I have said before know someone who did this scheme and since then he has been left high and dry.the training is top notch no doubt but after that just know you are on your on
Ylva is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2008, 14:57
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hoylake
Age: 46
Posts: 414
There's mention about the 150 hours these guys get but the advert states upto 250 hrs & job placement available:
You do get 150 hours line training, then, as a mate who was on the scheme did, you can purchase another 100 hours at a lower cost to make up the 250hrs

He is currently unemployed, at home sending out CVs to every airbus operator on the planet.
Nearly There is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2008, 13:30
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,271
Have people who have invested in this scheme had a labotomy? People who are considering entering it in the current climate must have had the other half of their brain removed as well.

100 hours line training, another 150 hours at a reduced rate.
Possible, but bloody unlikely interview with some tin pot outfit in the desert
No one who has completed the scheme in a job. Partner airline unwilling to employ anyone after completion.
An advert which reads like something that had been put together by Del Boy Trotter. Jesus H Christ....Alarm bells are ringing.
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2008, 14:10
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: York
Posts: 122
heard second-hand info - contrary to the above that the scheme had ceased partnership with easyjet for the line flying hours and was now using cyprus airways as the training partner with increased line hours of 250.

Immaterial as this scheme is of no interest but just for info.
bananaman2 is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2008, 23:01
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: England
Posts: 0
Several people have contacted me and told me to run away from this as fast as humanely possible.

I wouldn't possibly know anything about it. Sounds like a wonderful deal and a great opportunity.

Wee Weasley Welshman is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2008, 02:33
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 271
I agree. Fantastic opportunity! You get to pay Easyjet to run their schedule next summer and then get the rest of your career off. This must be what Gordon Brown means about spending your way out of a recession.
Husky One is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2008, 12:40
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 339
There has to be scope for a false advertising, sharp practice or fraud claim for the guys and girls who have gone through this 'scheme'.

From their own website (Simulator Experience Home Page of The Airline Training Partnership - ATP)

- "Once you have been trained, YOU will be a high quality commodity and we have several airlines waiting to sign you up as a direct entry First Officer with full salary and benefits."

- "The best time is NOW!"

- "Now, is a great time to consider a career in the airline industry. There is Growing Demand for Airline Pilots."

- "Few industries demonstrate as quantifiable a demand for new employees as the regional airline industry."

- "Thousands of Job Openings Every Month"

- "ATP have several partner airlines waiting to take you on board!"

- "It's a "Win - Win" situation!"

That is just the beginning of the lies that they are spreading, and using amateurish hard selling tactics that are more akin to a used car salesman or Nigerian Phishing scam than a professional Airbus TRTO. Even the website name "simulator-experience" implies some a red-letter-day style organisation, it's deplorable.

- "PS: Get your place booked now. Seriously! Places are VERY limited."

Well now you've said 'Seriously' I'm definitely going to do it.

- "or you can do nothing, and nothing will change."

Yes, I can do nothing, I will save a lot money and get a job in the upturn in a couple of years. I won't give what little I have to you, so I can jump a few places in the bankruptcy queue. Finally you've written some sense on your "website".

I am embarassed that a major UK airline has anything to do with this company.

For everyone that has gone through this scheme, I feel for you, I really do. Absolute best of luck finding work out there.
jb5000 is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2008, 13:39
  #59 (permalink)  

Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,162
It's a worrying thought that anyone daft enough to be taken in by this marketing drivel could be sat in the driver's seat of an airbus.
G SXTY is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2008, 15:26
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,285
With a sense or irony though, wouldn't the fact they were sat in that "drivers seat of an airbus" vindicate the decision?
Bealzebub is offline  

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