OAA - May Employment
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Well the course is around 67 weeks long if memory serves, obviously some of the posters in this forum are used for £500 per week for food and accommodation (actually it's more than this as the 20 weeks accommodation in Phoenix is included in the integrated course ... but then, given the exchange rates and relative costs, I guess it is easy to spend $100 per day on food in the US??????).
Lastly - and I love this part, people always include the accommodation / food when exaggerating the OAA costs, but seem to blissfully exclude them from all other options. Obviously Modular students are able to live and eat for free during their training.
Without doubt, OAA Integrated is pretty much the most expensive route to the same license at the end of the day and in the current climate, I am sure most people are giving careful consideration to their choice of when to train and with who - especially if they are taking a bank loan to fund it.
Lastly - and I love this part, people always include the accommodation / food when exaggerating the OAA costs, but seem to blissfully exclude them from all other options. Obviously Modular students are able to live and eat for free during their training.
Without doubt, OAA Integrated is pretty much the most expensive route to the same license at the end of the day and in the current climate, I am sure most people are giving careful consideration to their choice of when to train and with who - especially if they are taking a bank loan to fund it.
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Ollie thats right it does depend on yourself how hard you try after graduating as to wether your successful in getting a flying job or not. And Oxford are of zero use in placing you once you come off the Oxford production line with a Frozen ATPL. They are however very good at pretending your job at Ryanair along with your 7 other collegues was a direct result of intervention and connections through themselves as it hopefully fills classroom courses and fills the Oxford Bank account with many more £67k payments.
ooohhh look we just placed another 7 with Ryanair O`leary contacted us directly and asked for another 7 of our graduates.
Its like the latest Nationwide bank commercials on TV.
"We use all that rubbish info just to hook you"
"Then once we have your money and you have your ATPL your on your own"
"I mean you have gotta have abit of bubbly at the shareholders meeting"
But still a great school and very good at what they do which is getting you the legal capacity to fly for an Airline just abit naughty i feel with their marketing.
ooohhh look we just placed another 7 with Ryanair O`leary contacted us directly and asked for another 7 of our graduates.
Its like the latest Nationwide bank commercials on TV.
"We use all that rubbish info just to hook you"
"Then once we have your money and you have your ATPL your on your own"
"I mean you have gotta have abit of bubbly at the shareholders meeting"
But still a great school and very good at what they do which is getting you the legal capacity to fly for an Airline just abit naughty i feel with their marketing.
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wheelie,
I see where you're coming from but I think it's unfair to say that if you aim higher than Ryanair you go to somewhere like OAA. I ask again: Why should the airline you aspire to fly for be your first job?
Besides, there are advantages of flying for someone else before going to somewhere like BA because you would be on DEP pay rather than SSP pay. It doesn't take that long to get the hour requirements elsewhere either.
This is an honest question, I'm not trying to put down OAA graduates. What's the advantage of going to OAA then ending up flying for Ryanair when they also take modular students? Surely the advantage of these places is that you have the chance of starting somewhere better, or was it just a risk you took that unfortunately hasn't paid off?
I see where you're coming from but I think it's unfair to say that if you aim higher than Ryanair you go to somewhere like OAA. I ask again: Why should the airline you aspire to fly for be your first job?
Besides, there are advantages of flying for someone else before going to somewhere like BA because you would be on DEP pay rather than SSP pay. It doesn't take that long to get the hour requirements elsewhere either.
This is an honest question, I'm not trying to put down OAA graduates. What's the advantage of going to OAA then ending up flying for Ryanair when they also take modular students? Surely the advantage of these places is that you have the chance of starting somewhere better, or was it just a risk you took that unfortunately hasn't paid off?
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just abit naughty i feel with their marketing.
Plus I am also informed that OAA employment stats relate to cadets who have secured employment this year, and takes no account of what year they finished their course.
5. You have a lot of non UK citizens at Oxford. Some of these people gain employment with various airlines back home i.e KLM, Transavia, Air Asia etc. Surely I would not get a chance of employment with these airlines. I am uncertain then of what percentage of UK or Irish national actually gain employment after leaving OAA.
At the end of the day though you have to bear in mind that aviation is like all walks of life & networking is often the key to getting what you want. All the MCCI's at OAA are or have been TRI/TRE's & line pilots with a number of U.K. carriers - when you do the MCC course, these guy's will be assesing you & if you are any good might put a word in for you with a friend in the recruitment department. Sometimes, it's as basic as that.
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Join Date: May 2008
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Hi guys, m8 is one of those that got a job with flybe. I have actually spoken to him and he gave me his costs (he gave up drinking for the whole course!)...
OAA course £63k
CAA fees £4.5K (i have just noticed on the website that it has gone upto 5k
)
Accommodation £5k (lived in house)
Food (£20/week * 67) = £1340
~ £74K
passed everything first time, no remedial training needed and he's lost a load of weight...
OAA course £63k
CAA fees £4.5K (i have just noticed on the website that it has gone upto 5k
)Accommodation £5k (lived in house)
Food (£20/week * 67) = £1340
~ £74K
passed everything first time, no remedial training needed and he's lost a load of weight...
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As an ex-OAA person myself, when I joined Oxford I was encouraged that the market appeared to be recruiting quite heavily. I was also encouraged to read and hear about various airlines buying new aircraft, introducing new routes and a general feeling that a downturn was in the past and a major upturn had begun.
I didn't foresee the credit-crunch / US sub-prime lending catastrophe and the recession which has now most certainly taken hold of us here in blighty.
As Ollie268 mentioned, there isn't much going on in terms of recruitment right now and so many OAA folk as well as folk from other FTO's are likely to have bitten the bullet, spoken to their bank manager / parents / cash-happy people (or simply just withdrawn from their current account) the next sum of money to pay for the type training and join Ryanair.
BA and Flybe are the only airlines that are realistic for OAA grads to get interviews / assessments and a general sense that they might get considered through the Oxford Aviation "recommendations" system that currently exists.
One or two airlines tend to come in at a moments notice and snap up one lucky bugger, although the last time I heard of this was around April time when the successful candidate joined an airline in Vietnam.
While Oxford are keen to ensure we're all aware that they are on-target for the year, I suspect Ryanair recruitment will be the saving grace for another year of "ok" employment stats. The fact is, I don't think this is the fault of a flying school, purely, it's just one of those times that is going to be very very very difficult for people to secure a job and not because they aint good enough whether they are modular, integrated or whatever, but the jobs simply ARE NOT THERE right now.
The notion that paying a premium price should somehow entitle us to get the best job rather than joining the likes of Ryanair is a load of rubbish. Knowing what I know now, I would still have followed an integrated route and still, despite problems, have gone to Oxford. When I joined Oxford I hoped to get a job out of it. I wasn't sure who it would be with but getting the first job, the first step on the ladder was critical. I got that. Perhaps I might have achieved it doing it a different way, but I doubt I would have done it in under 2 years.
Back to the original post about the May stats - Expect to see Oxford with 178 placements by the end of the year (it's just a guess....), of which, 98 will be Ryanair.
It's going to be a tough year for all flight training students - and a real test for the FTO's to keep the morale up!
I didn't foresee the credit-crunch / US sub-prime lending catastrophe and the recession which has now most certainly taken hold of us here in blighty.
As Ollie268 mentioned, there isn't much going on in terms of recruitment right now and so many OAA folk as well as folk from other FTO's are likely to have bitten the bullet, spoken to their bank manager / parents / cash-happy people (or simply just withdrawn from their current account) the next sum of money to pay for the type training and join Ryanair.
BA and Flybe are the only airlines that are realistic for OAA grads to get interviews / assessments and a general sense that they might get considered through the Oxford Aviation "recommendations" system that currently exists.
One or two airlines tend to come in at a moments notice and snap up one lucky bugger, although the last time I heard of this was around April time when the successful candidate joined an airline in Vietnam.
While Oxford are keen to ensure we're all aware that they are on-target for the year, I suspect Ryanair recruitment will be the saving grace for another year of "ok" employment stats. The fact is, I don't think this is the fault of a flying school, purely, it's just one of those times that is going to be very very very difficult for people to secure a job and not because they aint good enough whether they are modular, integrated or whatever, but the jobs simply ARE NOT THERE right now.
The notion that paying a premium price should somehow entitle us to get the best job rather than joining the likes of Ryanair is a load of rubbish. Knowing what I know now, I would still have followed an integrated route and still, despite problems, have gone to Oxford. When I joined Oxford I hoped to get a job out of it. I wasn't sure who it would be with but getting the first job, the first step on the ladder was critical. I got that. Perhaps I might have achieved it doing it a different way, but I doubt I would have done it in under 2 years.
Back to the original post about the May stats - Expect to see Oxford with 178 placements by the end of the year (it's just a guess....), of which, 98 will be Ryanair.
It's going to be a tough year for all flight training students - and a real test for the FTO's to keep the morale up!
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Heli-port,
OAA's course price only went to £63K in 2008. If your friend is already at FlyBe he would have started over a year earlier and would have paid less for the course and the CAA fees. The other figures seem about right, except food. No wonder he is thin. Expensive? Yes. Most expensive? I think FTE is a bit more now due to the exchange rate, at least if you adjust for their course not including the JOC.
OAA's course price only went to £63K in 2008. If your friend is already at FlyBe he would have started over a year earlier and would have paid less for the course and the CAA fees. The other figures seem about right, except food. No wonder he is thin. Expensive? Yes. Most expensive? I think FTE is a bit more now due to the exchange rate, at least if you adjust for their course not including the JOC.
Last edited by Adios; 8th Jun 2008 at 00:20.
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Join Date: May 2008
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Why swallow the OAA marketing if you intend to go FR? Personally I don't see the point in shelling out an extra 25 grand if you don't have to.
I would kindly suggest that beggars can't be choosers!
At this point in the industry you'd be lucky to be offered a job in an airline.
Heliport I think you labour under the misapprehension that RYR will take any one and every one and nothing could be further from the truth. I know for a fact that the applications rejected far far outweigh the successful applications. The barrel is looking half empty these days with BMI not recruiting, Thomson is a closed shop so is easy. Not much movement at Jet2, globespan is the same, so now you are down to RYR and flybe. The competition is getting a hell of a lot more intense now isnt it?
Contrary to popular belief the likes of BA won't be banging on your door the day you finish your training. Plenty of high time boys that would kill for a job there. I quote from a friend that had an interview recently that this year they are looking for 200 pilots and have so far interviewed 1200. So go figure out your chances from that.
The ones that get jobs are lucky and have a passion for the job not just deep pockets!
At this point in the industry you'd be lucky to be offered a job in an airline.
Heliport I think you labour under the misapprehension that RYR will take any one and every one and nothing could be further from the truth. I know for a fact that the applications rejected far far outweigh the successful applications. The barrel is looking half empty these days with BMI not recruiting, Thomson is a closed shop so is easy. Not much movement at Jet2, globespan is the same, so now you are down to RYR and flybe. The competition is getting a hell of a lot more intense now isnt it?
Contrary to popular belief the likes of BA won't be banging on your door the day you finish your training. Plenty of high time boys that would kill for a job there. I quote from a friend that had an interview recently that this year they are looking for 200 pilots and have so far interviewed 1200. So go figure out your chances from that.
The ones that get jobs are lucky and have a passion for the job not just deep pockets!
Last edited by Rhodes13; 8th Jun 2008 at 17:01.
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heli_port,
Who said their target was Ryanair?
It seems that the people going there from OAA are doing so because you can't pick and choose jobs when there simply aren't any to pick and choose from.
Don't think that by going to OAA you are automatically 'above' Ryanair. You will take whatever you can, but if it ends up that way after going to OAA, you have got to be annoyed that you could have done it a lot chepaer. But then again, no one has a crystal ball do they.
Who said their target was Ryanair?
It seems that the people going there from OAA are doing so because you can't pick and choose jobs when there simply aren't any to pick and choose from.
Don't think that by going to OAA you are automatically 'above' Ryanair. You will take whatever you can, but if it ends up that way after going to OAA, you have got to be annoyed that you could have done it a lot chepaer. But then again, no one has a crystal ball do they.
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Ryan Air
I think the people who go to FR from Oxford are people who probably dont make the grade else where. I would think very few people would go to Oxford if at the end of the day they were going to land up on FR's door.
You are having a laugh arent you Dr Jones?
I forgot where on the application for BA it tells you where to put down that you are a sky god and rocket scientist.
Pound for pound I fly a hell of a lot more challenging routes than some of the legacies, then I have twits like you come on here and say I cant make the grade any where else!
Tell me where do you fly or are you just another person that likes throwing stones in glass houses!!
I forgot where on the application for BA it tells you where to put down that you are a sky god and rocket scientist.
Pound for pound I fly a hell of a lot more challenging routes than some of the legacies, then I have twits like you come on here and say I cant make the grade any where else!
Tell me where do you fly or are you just another person that likes throwing stones in glass houses!!
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Gees here we go. Next you will be telling us that those legacy airlines are shooting illegal approaches and landing below minima at EGSS, going below MSA at EICK and losing sight of the runway trying to rush a 2nd approach after going around, overrunning runways, taxiing onto the grass etc etc. The list goes on but it becomes tiresome listing all of the mishaps that your colleagues have managed to pull off.
Whilst I am sure you are a skygod Rhodes don't be to hasty in defending your airline. Unfortunately quite a few of your fellow colleagues have seen fit to display a complete and utter lack of professionalism and airmanship.
Whilst I am sure you are a skygod Rhodes don't be to hasty in defending your airline. Unfortunately quite a few of your fellow colleagues have seen fit to display a complete and utter lack of professionalism and airmanship.
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Ryan Air
1st things I am not having a go at OAA students who land up at FR.
I am just saying that when you finished your training at OAA where was FR on your list of potential employers, because if I had gone to OAA BA would have probably been top,and FR at the bottom and a load of airlines in the middle.
I am just saying that when you finished your training at OAA where was FR on your list of potential employers, because if I had gone to OAA BA would have probably been top,and FR at the bottom and a load of airlines in the middle.
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Ryanair hired 2 OAA grads in 2005 and 6 more in 2007. Nobody starting OAA back then would have predicted that Ryanair was likely to be where they would end up.
Ryanair hired 57 OAA grads in 2007 and 41 so far in 2008. These grads would have started their OAA course in 2005 and 2006.
People considering OAA right now should be asking whether they would be happy doing the Integrated course and ending up having to pay for a Ryanair type rating on top, or funding their own type rating anywhere else for that matter. Those nearly 100 OAA grads who have gone to Ryanair recently took the jobs they could get, even it turned out to be different than where they thought they would end up.
For people like Dr. Jones to come on here saying they must be bottom feeders who can't get on elsewhere is insulting both to the individuals and to Ryanair's pilots in general. The Ts&Cs at Ryanair may not be to the liking of many pilots, but there are many good pilots at Ryanair. They've all passed the same JAA exams, flight skills tests and type rating courses that pilots everywhere else have to pass and they have met the standard.
PKB,
It would have been the Captain's that made the decisions you refer to, not brand new FOs and it has a lot more to do with the corporate culture MOL has created than the relative quality ranking those pilots came out of their FTO with. That's some pretty serious thread drift creeping in if you want to discuss what's wrong with Ryanair.
Ryanair hired 57 OAA grads in 2007 and 41 so far in 2008. These grads would have started their OAA course in 2005 and 2006.
People considering OAA right now should be asking whether they would be happy doing the Integrated course and ending up having to pay for a Ryanair type rating on top, or funding their own type rating anywhere else for that matter. Those nearly 100 OAA grads who have gone to Ryanair recently took the jobs they could get, even it turned out to be different than where they thought they would end up.
For people like Dr. Jones to come on here saying they must be bottom feeders who can't get on elsewhere is insulting both to the individuals and to Ryanair's pilots in general. The Ts&Cs at Ryanair may not be to the liking of many pilots, but there are many good pilots at Ryanair. They've all passed the same JAA exams, flight skills tests and type rating courses that pilots everywhere else have to pass and they have met the standard.
PKB,
It would have been the Captain's that made the decisions you refer to, not brand new FOs and it has a lot more to do with the corporate culture MOL has created than the relative quality ranking those pilots came out of their FTO with. That's some pretty serious thread drift creeping in if you want to discuss what's wrong with Ryanair.
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Dr Jones, as far as a first post goes, priceless!
In the current climate, you get your fATPL, and you take the first offer you get. You simply cannot wait around for 18 months for an overrated 'legacy' carrier to come knocking on your door. Not because you can't 'make the grade', but because their business model is 20 years out of date, they don't make much money, don't buy many aeroplanes and don't have many jobs.
As FR are more or less the only consistent recruiter at the moment it is no surprise that most of the OAA conveyor belt end up there. All very simple economics. Nowt to do with making any 'grade'.
Do they feel a tad silly sat on a TR course having paid £30k more than they needed to? Probably. But it beats plan B. Which is twiddling your thumbs.
Who want's to sit in the RHS for London Airways for 11 years anyway?
EK
In the current climate, you get your fATPL, and you take the first offer you get. You simply cannot wait around for 18 months for an overrated 'legacy' carrier to come knocking on your door. Not because you can't 'make the grade', but because their business model is 20 years out of date, they don't make much money, don't buy many aeroplanes and don't have many jobs.
As FR are more or less the only consistent recruiter at the moment it is no surprise that most of the OAA conveyor belt end up there. All very simple economics. Nowt to do with making any 'grade'.
Do they feel a tad silly sat on a TR course having paid £30k more than they needed to? Probably. But it beats plan B. Which is twiddling your thumbs.
Who want's to sit in the RHS for London Airways for 11 years anyway?
EK
Unfortunately quite a few of your fellow colleagues have seen fit to display a complete and utter lack of professionalism and airmanship.
And that paints a picture of the whole airline does it? Yes we have made cockups and they have rightly been published in the various media but does that paint a dangerous airline when its a tiny minority of overall movements in the year?
Im not saying I'm a sky god far from it. I go to work and learn something new everyday, but to infer we are dangerous is pushing it a bit far dont you think. I would say that 56 million pax dont agree with you and the statistics stack up quite well to prove it!
If I follow your reasoning any airline that has had an incident it dangerous even if was just one person.
Please mate point me to an airline that had never ever made a mistake and ill be the first to join it! Oh thats right they all do! But I forgot you obviously fly for one that doesnt silly me. Must be because Im a colonial.. we are a bit slower you know
Sometimes you gotta wonder if people like you have a sick need to see a company like RYR go tits up just to say I told you so!
And that paints a picture of the whole airline does it? Yes we have made cockups and they have rightly been published in the various media but does that paint a dangerous airline when its a tiny minority of overall movements in the year?
Im not saying I'm a sky god far from it. I go to work and learn something new everyday, but to infer we are dangerous is pushing it a bit far dont you think. I would say that 56 million pax dont agree with you and the statistics stack up quite well to prove it!
If I follow your reasoning any airline that has had an incident it dangerous even if was just one person.
Please mate point me to an airline that had never ever made a mistake and ill be the first to join it! Oh thats right they all do! But I forgot you obviously fly for one that doesnt silly me. Must be because Im a colonial.. we are a bit slower you know
Sometimes you gotta wonder if people like you have a sick need to see a company like RYR go tits up just to say I told you so!
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RyanAir
The statement ‘making the grade’ is a figure of speech.
I am not implying that your incompetent pilots with what you are implying in your responses nor am I implying your ‘bottom feeders’ – we all started somewhere!
I’m just saying that had I gone to Oxford I would probably be disappointed if I had spent all that money and landed up at FR when I could have gone modular and spent half the money on training.
If you ignore the fact that Oxford is considered one of the best schools in the world why else do people go there and in my humble opinion it’s the relationship they have with the airlines.
Obviously some of your peers have got job offers from the legacy airlines – they made the grade because they got in and you did not – and the guys/girls that got in it probably was not all down to their flying skills, it was probably because they had other attributes to offer as well.
Maybe my choice of words is not the greatest I am not here to offend you!!
I am not implying that your incompetent pilots with what you are implying in your responses nor am I implying your ‘bottom feeders’ – we all started somewhere!
I’m just saying that had I gone to Oxford I would probably be disappointed if I had spent all that money and landed up at FR when I could have gone modular and spent half the money on training.
If you ignore the fact that Oxford is considered one of the best schools in the world why else do people go there and in my humble opinion it’s the relationship they have with the airlines.
Obviously some of your peers have got job offers from the legacy airlines – they made the grade because they got in and you did not – and the guys/girls that got in it probably was not all down to their flying skills, it was probably because they had other attributes to offer as well.
Maybe my choice of words is not the greatest I am not here to offend you!!