We're all *****d!
Join Date: Sep 2006
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@WWW
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Employers don't find you attractive as a failed pilot. It suggests you get yourselves into things you don't understand, that you will have money worries and that you are a dreamer. Sorry, but that's what many 40yr old Bosses will think about you if you are in your 20's and have a CPL/IR but are applying for some menial £20k job on the basis of some easy foundation qualification.
I am not in my 20's not that that would have anything to do with anything in this legislative day and age anyway
Foundation qualification - uhmm well lets see BSc (Hons) Physics, CPhys, CEng.....hardly foundation qualifications are they oh and all on the back of nearly 8 years professional duty the last 4 of which ahve been at senior level
WWW i have to tell you your posts come accross, to me at least, more as antagonistic rather than from a helpful guidance perspective.
Which is it that you intend?
B
Quote:
Employers don't find you attractive as a failed pilot. It suggests you get yourselves into things you don't understand, that you will have money worries and that you are a dreamer. Sorry, but that's what many 40yr old Bosses will think about you if you are in your 20's and have a CPL/IR but are applying for some menial £20k job on the basis of some easy foundation qualification.
I am not in my 20's not that that would have anything to do with anything in this legislative day and age anyway
Foundation qualification - uhmm well lets see BSc (Hons) Physics, CPhys, CEng.....hardly foundation qualifications are they oh and all on the back of nearly 8 years professional duty the last 4 of which ahve been at senior level
WWW i have to tell you your posts come accross, to me at least, more as antagonistic rather than from a helpful guidance perspective.
Which is it that you intend?
B
Indeed!
Anyway I wouldn't want to be getting into this lark if I didn't have the PgDip and BEng degree and 10 years military service (with option to go back) under my belt. To go for it now with zero quals or other work experience would indeed be foolhardy. But I still argue that completing your CPL/IR etc etc during your "gap year" if you like, can still be spun to look good to a potential employer. Yes, I have sat on that side of the desk too and trained for that side of the desk too (unlike the majority of bods who just end up there as they have a few more grey hairs then their colleagues). Anyone who has a bit of common sense can make themselves marketable. Flipping burgers is not really an option if you have a little more about you.
Look chaps - I can't know each of your personal circumstances. I'm writing here to a broad audience, many quite young who don't have established careers. Don't get insulted by talk of flipping burgers if it clearly wouldn't get to that point for your personal circumstances.
I'm only writing here to address a wider audience and provider broad advice by highlighting the issues and problems in general. I'm not engaging in a personal careers advice session though I do get plenty of that by personal message!
Explaining to a prospective employer that you spent a lot of time and money on a pilots license CAN be spun positively. As an employer though I would by cynical and think - didn't work, will leave as soon as a pilot job comes up, I'll hire the normal guy I saw half an hour ago. As I said earlier - I KNOW people who had to clean windows and drive vans in the last recession because their logbooks had less than 700hrs and nobody was interested and there were no flying jobs. They had bills and loans to service and had to crack on. One of them went on to currently be a Fleet Manager with a well known UK jet airline. So it worked for him in the end.
WWW
I'm only writing here to address a wider audience and provider broad advice by highlighting the issues and problems in general. I'm not engaging in a personal careers advice session though I do get plenty of that by personal message!
Explaining to a prospective employer that you spent a lot of time and money on a pilots license CAN be spun positively. As an employer though I would by cynical and think - didn't work, will leave as soon as a pilot job comes up, I'll hire the normal guy I saw half an hour ago. As I said earlier - I KNOW people who had to clean windows and drive vans in the last recession because their logbooks had less than 700hrs and nobody was interested and there were no flying jobs. They had bills and loans to service and had to crack on. One of them went on to currently be a Fleet Manager with a well known UK jet airline. So it worked for him in the end.
WWW
Here here WWW.
With the greatest of respect guys; some of you seriously have your heads in the sand. Wake up and smell the coffee! WWW isn't doom-mongering just for a bit of light entertainment for himself.
A proportion of you should stop being arrogant and take some sound advice from more experienced people. Seriously. Wise up.
I know wild enthusiasm can blinker the facts but if you're about to start training; try and be sensible and sit tight for a while. Look at the news or any newspaper any day of the week - the facts are staring you in the face!
With the greatest of respect guys; some of you seriously have your heads in the sand. Wake up and smell the coffee! WWW isn't doom-mongering just for a bit of light entertainment for himself.
A proportion of you should stop being arrogant and take some sound advice from more experienced people. Seriously. Wise up.
I know wild enthusiasm can blinker the facts but if you're about to start training; try and be sensible and sit tight for a while. Look at the news or any newspaper any day of the week - the facts are staring you in the face!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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For Gods sake
I AM listening to WWW
I gave him/her a thumbs up in an earlier post. I very much appreciate hisher general messages and knowledge. This doesnt mean to say that every word in every post from WWW is NOT going to raise an eyebrow or need clarifying or hell correcting somtimes!
WWW i AM appreciative of your posts my friend and I thank you but you cant expect people to agree with you on every single point all of the time.
B
I AM listening to WWW
I gave him/her a thumbs up in an earlier post. I very much appreciate hisher general messages and knowledge. This doesnt mean to say that every word in every post from WWW is NOT going to raise an eyebrow or need clarifying or hell correcting somtimes!
WWW i AM appreciative of your posts my friend and I thank you but you cant expect people to agree with you on every single point all of the time.
B
Join Date: Jul 2000
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WWW - here's someone who's due to complete in about November 2009. Pretty much worst timing according to your predictions, and you might be right too.
But sometimes, when you're already committed and there's no other choice, you have to listen to and take on board the advice and predictions of those in the know, and just bloody well do it anyway.
I may be wrong, and I may be right - that will be something I find out when the day comes. But what I know now is that many opportunities can be made simply by being willing to try in the face of grim odds. So I will knuckle down and get on with it, take any opportunities I can make for myself and keep moving forwards. Sometimes the hardest situations are actually the easiest because there is nowhere to go but forwards. I'll let you know.
But sometimes, when you're already committed and there's no other choice, you have to listen to and take on board the advice and predictions of those in the know, and just bloody well do it anyway.
I may be wrong, and I may be right - that will be something I find out when the day comes. But what I know now is that many opportunities can be made simply by being willing to try in the face of grim odds. So I will knuckle down and get on with it, take any opportunities I can make for myself and keep moving forwards. Sometimes the hardest situations are actually the easiest because there is nowhere to go but forwards. I'll let you know.
Join Date: May 2008
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just a few points
what the hell happened to the massive industry boom the media has been wanking on about
ok, so, from what ive read the europeans have too many tunnels- because your all in the dark and apparently your also going to be hit by a train. european fuel prices are amoungst the highest in the world- so what about the rest of us? is it going to get too hard to find a job for a wannabe like myself?
and uhhh, what the hell happened to the massive industry boom... fuel pries have been shooting up for a while now but apparently theres still a world shortage in airline pilots. I hear qantas is grounding planes because of it, new zealands opening a new multi rating course to get more pilots on a flight deck (we're a bit behind), there are hundreds of jobs on the net.
so who's here? fuel prices are going to keep going up but people are still going to want to travel, the populations increasing = airlines are increasing = more planes = more pilots = more jobs
right?
what the hell happened to the massive industry boom the media has been wanking on about
ok, so, from what ive read the europeans have too many tunnels- because your all in the dark and apparently your also going to be hit by a train. european fuel prices are amoungst the highest in the world- so what about the rest of us? is it going to get too hard to find a job for a wannabe like myself?
and uhhh, what the hell happened to the massive industry boom... fuel pries have been shooting up for a while now but apparently theres still a world shortage in airline pilots. I hear qantas is grounding planes because of it, new zealands opening a new multi rating course to get more pilots on a flight deck (we're a bit behind), there are hundreds of jobs on the net.
so who's
here? fuel prices are going to keep going up but people are still going to want to travel, the populations increasing = airlines are increasing = more planes = more pilots = more jobsright?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Did I read somewhere that Ezy have now put a stop on any more ctc cadets for the timebeing due to lack of recruitment?? If Ezy dont take them then theres a distinct lack of other airlines hiring.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I only act on cold hard facts.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...cutbacks_N.htm
You might have better chances with an license for nuclear submarines.
Join Date: May 2004
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In terms of ezy's requirement for CTC cadets it is well and truly on the cards that the guys who have just started the six month probation stint will be the first group not to be offered permanent contracts due to current circumstances. Let's hope this doesn't turn out to be the case.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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BitMore and MIKECR
I thought i had read that CTC (damn need to remember this is not a CTC thread....sorry just want to clarify this) cadets have been asked to volunteer to delay by upto 6 months while EZY wait for a/c or something similar i.e. ops driven not pilot demand driven?
Or is that totally wrong.....Again just trying to bottom out the facts guys.
B
I thought i had read that CTC (damn need to remember this is not a CTC thread....sorry just want to clarify this) cadets have been asked to volunteer to delay by upto 6 months while EZY wait for a/c or something similar i.e. ops driven not pilot demand driven?
Or is that totally wrong.....Again just trying to bottom out the facts guys.
B
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I would probably take it with a pinch of salt to be honest. I find it a bit strange that theyd delay ctc guys yet theyre quite happy to take guys from the highly debated ATP(buy TR and 150 line hours nonsense) scheme. I dont see any other purpose in delaying the ctc pilots other than perhaps the ATP chaps and chappesses will be cheaper labour. I may be totally off the mark of course!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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WWW is right.
Aviation is a very cyclical industry with periods of 'feast and famine'.
The people who are against WWW are usually flying school students who are blinded to reality by their dreams, or flight training vendors who are afraid WWW is scaring away their business.
By the way, CNN just announced that United Airlines is grounding a whole wack of planes and laying off a lot of employees due to the fuel crisis...
If history is any judge, thing will get better about 4 years from now. But with oil prices I think set to stay high, it's so hard to say really....
Aviation is a very cyclical industry with periods of 'feast and famine'.
The people who are against WWW are usually flying school students who are blinded to reality by their dreams, or flight training vendors who are afraid WWW is scaring away their business.
By the way, CNN just announced that United Airlines is grounding a whole wack of planes and laying off a lot of employees due to the fuel crisis...
If history is any judge, thing will get better about 4 years from now. But with oil prices I think set to stay high, it's so hard to say really....
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by chchflyboy
so who's here? fuel prices are going to keep going up but people are still going to want to travel, the populations increasing = airlines are increasing = more planes = more pilots = more jobs
Someone said in another post about airline placing orders for new airframes. In itself not a cast iron guarantee of employment. Years ago I was working for an airline that had orders, deposits paid. They wanted to change their mind and boeing wouldn't let them, so the went belly up. OK I'm not saying Ryanair is in the same boat, but MOL has said that they expect a break even for next year. That alone should be a warning.
A lot of what www says makes sense and worth taking on board. At least the new blood coming into aviation will do so, eyes wide open.
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by PosClimb
By the way, CNN just announced that United Airlines is grounding a whole wack of planes and laying off a lot of employees due to the fuel crisis...
Its the less pax, they cannot afford it.
'tis just another viewpoint.
The guys coming in paying for type rating and 150hrs line training are, in total, 10. They are all connected to an African airline. As far as I can see EZY are just making a bit of pocket money by using their spare training capacity now that recruitment has come to a shuddering halt.
It would not be appropriate for me to say anything more than is already in the public domain.
Just do give full weight to the fact that it is YOU that bears ALL the financial risk for your CTC training scheme. Nobody seems to know what happens if, for some reason, there are no jobs at the end of the scheme. I don't. If I were on the scheme or applying for it I think I'd try to find out. For several years now getting onto the CTC scheme meant that you had cracked it - an airline job was yours. It might be wise, just wise, to no longer think you've cracked it just because CTC have accepted you.
I spent many happy hours training Aer Lingus cadets who were fully sponsored but come Sept11th were chopped from line training at which point the company had spent over £100k on them. But they were gone by Nov2001 and scattered to the four winds.
Airlines are brutal - when they dump you they dump you. Training providers will be no different except HSBC will hunt you to the ends of the earth and take your firstborn. Unless you go bankrupt.
WWW
It would not be appropriate for me to say anything more than is already in the public domain.
Just do give full weight to the fact that it is YOU that bears ALL the financial risk for your CTC training scheme. Nobody seems to know what happens if, for some reason, there are no jobs at the end of the scheme. I don't. If I were on the scheme or applying for it I think I'd try to find out. For several years now getting onto the CTC scheme meant that you had cracked it - an airline job was yours. It might be wise, just wise, to no longer think you've cracked it just because CTC have accepted you.
I spent many happy hours training Aer Lingus cadets who were fully sponsored but come Sept11th were chopped from line training at which point the company had spent over £100k on them. But they were gone by Nov2001 and scattered to the four winds.
Airlines are brutal - when they dump you they dump you. Training providers will be no different except HSBC will hunt you to the ends of the earth and take your firstborn. Unless you go bankrupt.
WWW
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Let's see what Chris Avery (JPMorgan) thinks...oh yes, Ryanair are trading their aircraft, not using them.
B738s
At the analysts’ meeting, we learned a few more points of detail about Ryanair’s B738 contract. We believe that Ryanair’s last tranche in February 2005 was priced cheaper than Boeing has ever sold the aircraft before, due to Ryanair’s timing and volume (just when BCA was tasked with rebuilding market share after four years of being beaten by Airbus). With the major shift in the euro/dollar rate, these aircraft are becoming steadily even cheaper to (euro-reporting) Ryanair.
Today, its B738 deliveries are half the price (in euros) of its first deliveries in the 1998/99 - thus they have half the depreciation and half the capital costs, making a material difference to Ryanair’s aircraft costs as the oldest 738s are sold out and replaced with the new ones (the latest batch was sold to a Russian airline). These cheap prices have now been locked in by Ryanair. It shares the typical contractual escalation clauses in the contract with Boeing (this is unusual), and has now hedged its dollar requirements for the plane deliveries through to 2011, locking in those cheap prices.
At this stage, Ryanair management is adamant that it wants to take all its contracted firm deliveries in order to reduce its own costs (through replacement of the oldest 738s) and to grow as other LCCs fail (inevitable, we agree, at $130/bbl oil).
B738s
At the analysts’ meeting, we learned a few more points of detail about Ryanair’s B738 contract. We believe that Ryanair’s last tranche in February 2005 was priced cheaper than Boeing has ever sold the aircraft before, due to Ryanair’s timing and volume (just when BCA was tasked with rebuilding market share after four years of being beaten by Airbus). With the major shift in the euro/dollar rate, these aircraft are becoming steadily even cheaper to (euro-reporting) Ryanair.
Today, its B738 deliveries are half the price (in euros) of its first deliveries in the 1998/99 - thus they have half the depreciation and half the capital costs, making a material difference to Ryanair’s aircraft costs as the oldest 738s are sold out and replaced with the new ones (the latest batch was sold to a Russian airline). These cheap prices have now been locked in by Ryanair. It shares the typical contractual escalation clauses in the contract with Boeing (this is unusual), and has now hedged its dollar requirements for the plane deliveries through to 2011, locking in those cheap prices.
At this stage, Ryanair management is adamant that it wants to take all its contracted firm deliveries in order to reduce its own costs (through replacement of the oldest 738s) and to grow as other LCCs fail (inevitable, we agree, at $130/bbl oil).
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Topslide6 wrote:
"here is very little movement between airlines as everybody is clinging to their seniority number with both hands, and even if they did want to move, there are virtually no jobs to apply for."
Thank god world is not just UK.
"here is very little movement between airlines as everybody is clinging to their seniority number with both hands, and even if they did want to move, there are virtually no jobs to apply for."
Thank god world is not just UK.
