We're all *****d!
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Interesting article on MSN at the moment. Is it just media and economist scaremongering?
http://money.uk.msn.com/investing/ar...mentid=8445001
Still if you have a few 1000 hrs or a PHd someone is still recruiting
http://www.esa.int/hr/vn.htm
Roller
http://money.uk.msn.com/investing/ar...mentid=8445001
Still if you have a few 1000 hrs or a PHd someone is still recruiting
http://www.esa.int/hr/vn.htm
Roller
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Another completely boring and uninteresting link about oil prices/global economy. This one stolen from the Military forum:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_.../JE24Dj02.html
worth reading if you can be arsed or are avoiding doing ATPL theory..
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_.../JE24Dj02.html
worth reading if you can be arsed or are avoiding doing ATPL theory..
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Astronaut anyone?
Still if you have a few 1000 hrs or a PHd someone is still recruiting
http://www.esa.int/hr/vn.htm
Roller
http://www.esa.int/hr/vn.htm
Roller
Hee hee! I've never seen an advert for Astronaut before! The advert states 1000hrs required... albeit as test pilot of high perf jets!.
Duties may include extravehicular activities..!
Doesn't mention pay though...
BTW, Class 2 Medical required and Russian language useful...
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He is assuming that his sector pay will largely cover the loan repayments. If it doesn't then he maybe in for a shock 
He is initially LHR for 6 months then permanent base is LGW.
Mate, if you are reading this I hope you don't mind me posting so much info!! I will hold short of mentioning the fact that you still couldn't land a Cessna 152 for toffee. Ooops done it now.
He is initially LHR for 6 months then permanent base is LGW.
Mate, if you are reading this I hope you don't mind me posting so much info!! I will hold short of mentioning the fact that you still couldn't land a Cessna 152 for toffee. Ooops done it now.
Join Date: May 2001
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djfc
I apologise then - we appear to be talking about different courses! I was assuming that, as usual, the OAA numbers were the topic of discussion - for those interested, my crossed wires were that HSBC only (...), to my knowledge, offer OAA students £50k secured, or £25k unsecured for training, 2% above base rate which is the same interest rate as the CTC guys clearly, at 7% currently. Unless they are lending people more now?
TS6 in reference to the OAA loan, I'm assuming then that you're talking about £80k total including lifetime interest? As the lent amount won't be above £50k (again, unless they are lending people more now) unless you're tied to an airline, then the going rate of repayments (and I'd have to check my contract which isn't exactly in easy reach) is around £550 pcm - how are you getting to the 7 - 800 pcm figure?
Sorry again for the confusion, should have been paying more attention really however am so used to people talking solely about numbers for OAA (and usually how foolish people are for going there/getting finance for the course) that I, rather obviously, saw red!
And I am pretty astonished that you CTC guys get offered so much, although with the guaranteed job promise (whatever and wherever that may mean, from what i understand) I suppose they're happier to give you a bigger lump!
I apologise then - we appear to be talking about different courses! I was assuming that, as usual, the OAA numbers were the topic of discussion - for those interested, my crossed wires were that HSBC only (...), to my knowledge, offer OAA students £50k secured, or £25k unsecured for training, 2% above base rate which is the same interest rate as the CTC guys clearly, at 7% currently. Unless they are lending people more now?
TS6 in reference to the OAA loan, I'm assuming then that you're talking about £80k total including lifetime interest? As the lent amount won't be above £50k (again, unless they are lending people more now) unless you're tied to an airline, then the going rate of repayments (and I'd have to check my contract which isn't exactly in easy reach) is around £550 pcm - how are you getting to the 7 - 800 pcm figure?
Sorry again for the confusion, should have been paying more attention really however am so used to people talking solely about numbers for OAA (and usually how foolish people are for going there/getting finance for the course) that I, rather obviously, saw red!
And I am pretty astonished that you CTC guys get offered so much, although with the guaranteed job promise (whatever and wherever that may mean, from what i understand) I suppose they're happier to give you a bigger lump!
Last edited by cfwake; 5th Jun 2008 at 16:26.
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And i am pretty astonished that you CTC guys get offered so much, although with the guaranteed job promise (whatever and wherever that may mean, from what i understand) I suppose they're happier to give you a bigger lump!
I guess CTCs track record regarding placement performance might go someway to smoothing things over with the bank too...no?
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Hmm well having been at OAA for some time now (almost finished) and haven't met anyone who's taken £60, although I don't doubt some people will - HSBC state that this is for sponsored students only - also the extra, which is indeed about £30k is specifically mentioned by HSBC; I recall that the loan contract forbids any further loans to cover the remaining costs of the course i.e you will only legally be permitted to have the HSBC loan and the rest will have to come from other sources that are NOT bank loans!!
Loan repayments average £600 pcm for this loan.
Loan repayments average £600 pcm for this loan.
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Guys, I have crossed swords with WWW on a similar thread but feel that, in this case, its worth emphasising one of his points. There are some here who appear to talk about £80K+ as if it were monopoly money. Take a step back and think. People are considering (already?) taking a bank loan with monthly repayments close to that of a sizeable mortgage with NO guarantee of a job at the end - don't get starry-eyed by all the marketing and statistical stuff from the 'blue chip' training schools. Seriously, think long and hard before committing to such a course of action. If you have £100K in the bank and can't think of anything better to do with it, then maybe you should pop down to Oxford tomorrow. Otherwise, the advice is sit tight, think carefully before you spend and consider the very real advantages of following a modular route.
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djfc not sure if that is for ts6 or me!
If it's for me, my loan is for 600 pcm, beginning 6 months after graduation...7% (actually 2% above Bank of England base rate) is annual interest rate, monthly works out to be something around 1.13% of the loan initially...fixed term is 11 years (132 months unless my maths is, as usual, atrocious) and there is no penalty for early repayment - HSBC openly admitted to me that those who take the full loan usually find it realistic to aim for a 6 to 7 year payoff as salary increments come into play. Obviously you're not living the high life but within 7 years, you'll hope to be getting a command and the associated pay which allows payments of significantly more than 600 pcm!
Would I take the loan again with the current climate? No, but then one year ago all I heard from everyone from training captains to newbie first officers was to get in there asap as the job market was going to hold for another 2 years!
Damn industry.
If it's for me, my loan is for 600 pcm, beginning 6 months after graduation...7% (actually 2% above Bank of England base rate) is annual interest rate, monthly works out to be something around 1.13% of the loan initially...fixed term is 11 years (132 months unless my maths is, as usual, atrocious) and there is no penalty for early repayment - HSBC openly admitted to me that those who take the full loan usually find it realistic to aim for a 6 to 7 year payoff as salary increments come into play. Obviously you're not living the high life but within 7 years, you'll hope to be getting a command and the associated pay which allows payments of significantly more than 600 pcm!
Would I take the loan again with the current climate? No, but then one year ago all I heard from everyone from training captains to newbie first officers was to get in there asap as the job market was going to hold for another 2 years!
Damn industry.
What happens when the only airlines willing to take CTC cadets are small and only pay low £20's for their FO's? After the tax and deductions and the £1,100 loan repayment the pay will result in £425 net.
Out of which you will have to provide food, shelter, clothing and consumables.
There CTC cadets who have joined BA after spending a short time in the airline the CTC placed them - to a man they are living with their parents and catching the bus to Heathrow.
At the moment its really not worth trying to be a pilot from a rational point of view. The training is expensive. The first job near impossible. The pay after loan repayment is crap. The job has no glamour. The aircraft demand no skill. The public will hate you. The green-leaning public will despise you. The hours are unsocial. The jet lag kills you. The cachet of being an airline pilot wears off real quick. Most people think you harm on the environment whilst taking chavs to ruin foreign countries.
I'd still never trade my job for a real one though..
Your call.
WWW
Out of which you will have to provide food, shelter, clothing and consumables.
There CTC cadets who have joined BA after spending a short time in the airline the CTC placed them - to a man they are living with their parents and catching the bus to Heathrow.
At the moment its really not worth trying to be a pilot from a rational point of view. The training is expensive. The first job near impossible. The pay after loan repayment is crap. The job has no glamour. The aircraft demand no skill. The public will hate you. The green-leaning public will despise you. The hours are unsocial. The jet lag kills you. The cachet of being an airline pilot wears off real quick. Most people think you harm on the environment whilst taking chavs to ruin foreign countries.
I'd still never trade my job for a real one though..
Your call.
WWW
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Tonights news was not welcome. Continental and Qantas announce major cut backs. Could be a wave of American and Australian pilots heading this way looking for work (if there are any vacancies). All very experienced.
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I can assure WWW and anyone else that my mate is not living at home with Mum and Dad and travelling to LHR everyday. Christ, that would be a hell of a commute and he is a little old for that!!
WWW does make an excellent point though about low paid airlines. This is exactly why, with huge loan repayments, that on the whole, CTC grads DO NOT want to join FlyBe. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it. I would offer my left testicle to land a job with FlyBe, but then I am modular and I could afford it, as I will be DEBT FREE post training. Problem is though as more and more "partner airlines" are shutting the door for a while (EZY being the big one) CTC are having to look elsewhere and elsewhere does not pay particulalry well.
Good luck to us all, It's a big gamble at the moment. Just make sure you hedge your bets!!
Cheers
MFWF
WWW does make an excellent point though about low paid airlines. This is exactly why, with huge loan repayments, that on the whole, CTC grads DO NOT want to join FlyBe. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it. I would offer my left testicle to land a job with FlyBe, but then I am modular and I could afford it, as I will be DEBT FREE post training. Problem is though as more and more "partner airlines" are shutting the door for a while (EZY being the big one) CTC are having to look elsewhere and elsewhere does not pay particulalry well.
Good luck to us all, It's a big gamble at the moment. Just make sure you hedge your bets!!
Cheers
MFWF
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I find it interesting that the 'jobs' spoken about in this thread all seem to revolve around the big 'jet job' scenario. There are off course TP jobs, Cargo, and Corporate jobs as well. The market there is so much more rosy yet people seem to be blinkered by the 'i aint flying that, its a jet or nothing' type scenario. Think a little bit further outside the box people.
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I'd fly a cargo plane full of rubber dog poop out of Inverness (not sure there is a big rubber doog poop factory up that way, but hey it's a great Top Gun quote and I'm just trying to point out that, I for one, would do any flying job I could get my hands on).
Anyway I must stop getting distracted from the ATPL study.....
MFWF
Anyway I must stop getting distracted from the ATPL study.....
MFWF
Debt free. Now therein lies paradise.
WWW
WWW