The Value of A-levels? University Tuition?
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The Value of A-levels? University Tuition?
I understand that many wannabe pilots go through university and gain A-levels prior to this higher study.
However are A-levels needed?
My situation is that i can either do a university level 0 course in science which will give me all my science based subjects like physics and maths. On the other hand i could do A-levels in physics and maths. The reason i am planning carefully is due to fear of rejection due to my absence of A-levels. As you know A-levels are a 2 year course where as this science course is only 1 year long. Meaning i could get into university faster and do a degree in meteorology or something related to aviation. However would the employers, even if i show them all the modules i have covered, prefer an A-level graduate? This at present is my only concern, I am going to start my pilot training soon and hopefully acheve the highest possible scores on my exams. I would hate however to spend so much money and dedicate so much time to have my A-levels come back to haunt me.
Now about university...Is it essential that you go to university. I'm all for going as it not o0nly gives me a new qualification but makes my family happy, but is it a MUST? A fellow trainee pilot whom i go to the ATC (air cadets) with is not going to university but instead just striving for his frozen ATPL alone and applying for a job. He has his A-levels however in geography and business. I was a fool and went down the other route of vocational subjects such as Uniformed Services level 3 and 2. I found that it bears no relevance to aviation (as i was fooled to believing it would introduce me to it via the RAF).
So yea..i'm pretty confused on making my next step, i just turned 18 years old and so there is no mistakes i can make anymore. I feel if i choose the wrong course this time i'll simply have no means of recovery, sure for commercial piloting i could perhaps spend an extra year or two studying at college, but for an RAF fighter pilot which is one of the most sought after aviation jobs around...i'll be over the age of 23 and so be too old to start my training.
I'd appreciate any opinions or advice you may have to share.
Would you please also send it in a private message if it is not too much to ask? It allows me to quickly access my responses
However are A-levels needed?
My situation is that i can either do a university level 0 course in science which will give me all my science based subjects like physics and maths. On the other hand i could do A-levels in physics and maths. The reason i am planning carefully is due to fear of rejection due to my absence of A-levels. As you know A-levels are a 2 year course where as this science course is only 1 year long. Meaning i could get into university faster and do a degree in meteorology or something related to aviation. However would the employers, even if i show them all the modules i have covered, prefer an A-level graduate? This at present is my only concern, I am going to start my pilot training soon and hopefully acheve the highest possible scores on my exams. I would hate however to spend so much money and dedicate so much time to have my A-levels come back to haunt me.
Now about university...Is it essential that you go to university. I'm all for going as it not o0nly gives me a new qualification but makes my family happy, but is it a MUST? A fellow trainee pilot whom i go to the ATC (air cadets) with is not going to university but instead just striving for his frozen ATPL alone and applying for a job. He has his A-levels however in geography and business. I was a fool and went down the other route of vocational subjects such as Uniformed Services level 3 and 2. I found that it bears no relevance to aviation (as i was fooled to believing it would introduce me to it via the RAF).
So yea..i'm pretty confused on making my next step, i just turned 18 years old and so there is no mistakes i can make anymore. I feel if i choose the wrong course this time i'll simply have no means of recovery, sure for commercial piloting i could perhaps spend an extra year or two studying at college, but for an RAF fighter pilot which is one of the most sought after aviation jobs around...i'll be over the age of 23 and so be too old to start my training.
I'd appreciate any opinions or advice you may have to share.
Would you please also send it in a private message if it is not too much to ask? It allows me to quickly access my responses
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I would 100% study A-levels at least (Maths, Physics and Computers).
You can then opt for a degree based around such as aerospace engineering / Aeronautical engineering. there are some places were you can obtain a Part-66 license while getting a degree this will allow you to work towards aircraft licenses such as a B or even a c.
There are now however options were you can study for a degree and fly such as that at Cranfield.
My advise would be "Study hard and love every minute of it!"
+ Degree acts as a fall back
You can then opt for a degree based around such as aerospace engineering / Aeronautical engineering. there are some places were you can obtain a Part-66 license while getting a degree this will allow you to work towards aircraft licenses such as a B or even a c.
There are now however options were you can study for a degree and fly such as that at Cranfield.
My advise would be "Study hard and love every minute of it!"
+ Degree acts as a fall back
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Since you are an RAF wannabee, have you been to your nearest recruiting office to discuss career paths with them? And to see if there are any complete gotchas about flying their fighters, before you get your hopes up?
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It's only a valuable backup if you study something of worth and get a good degree otherwise there is no point and you can get your life experience elsewhere. Try for the RAF if its what you want then see what happens
I dropped out after two years and have not looked back to be honest.
I dropped out after two years and have not looked back to be honest.
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A small question, what is a University Level 0 ? Do you mean a foundation degree 1 Year Course ?
I will echo what was said above... If you have no A-Levels, you really should get those first. BUT ! If you have find a University that will offer you a Foundation Met Degree (4 Year Course) I would probably go for that AND do 1/2 A-Levels (maybe 1 AS-Level as well?) whilst at University.
I will be blunt with you, to get to fly fast-jets, you will be competing with the cream of the crop. People with 3 A-level, good degrees and that have joined University Air Squads whilst at Uni. I am not saying they are necessarily better then you, they have just shown commitment at a younger age. But! Not all is lost for you so don’t look down just yet.
I suggest you go and have a word with a careers office, they will probably echo the above as well. I am not exactly sure what Uniformed Services so I am unsure what the careers office will say about that.
Just work hard and show commitment. I would phone around some universities as soon as possible to find out what courses they offer and the option of doing A-Levels via the University or Distance Learning.
Remember...everyones opinion is different, even mine! so whatever you read on here dont take it as 100% the correct way!
I will echo what was said above... If you have no A-Levels, you really should get those first. BUT ! If you have find a University that will offer you a Foundation Met Degree (4 Year Course) I would probably go for that AND do 1/2 A-Levels (maybe 1 AS-Level as well?) whilst at University.
I will be blunt with you, to get to fly fast-jets, you will be competing with the cream of the crop. People with 3 A-level, good degrees and that have joined University Air Squads whilst at Uni. I am not saying they are necessarily better then you, they have just shown commitment at a younger age. But! Not all is lost for you so don’t look down just yet.
I suggest you go and have a word with a careers office, they will probably echo the above as well. I am not exactly sure what Uniformed Services so I am unsure what the careers office will say about that.
Just work hard and show commitment. I would phone around some universities as soon as possible to find out what courses they offer and the option of doing A-Levels via the University or Distance Learning.
Remember...everyones opinion is different, even mine! so whatever you read on here dont take it as 100% the correct way!
Last edited by 4KBeta; 3rd Apr 2008 at 09:59.
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What Do I Need?
Wherever i go and whoever i talk to i just cant quite figure out what to do.
I hear i'm competing against the best aviation has to offer, then hear hints and rumours that its rather wh you know rather than what you know. However i just want to know is, is the pilot training enough?
Say i managed to get my Frozen ATPL and i had a very high score in all the exams, the type of score you could be proud of. Would that still be enough or would i need all those degrees and A-levels?
Also if so, When i get those degrees and what not, do i NEED A-levels with it? I'm in a dihlemma where i can enter university 2 ways, the traditional A-level route and the science university level 0 route which basically equips me with the science i need to be a pilot and opens courses such as meteorology and such things up for me.
So lets say i do a good degree, will i still need thse A-levels? or will i be favoured over somebody with the A-levels?
I dont have the faintest clue as to what i must do and i am told one thing by somebody who supposedly knows, and told other things which totally contridict what i have previously been told.
This is my frustration...i just need to know what it is i am suppose to be doing, then i can crack on with it and produce the results.
Even if it means potentially risking a fortune, because in my opinion its worth that risk. If i fail i'm going to spend the remainder of my days trying, even if i am applying and i am over the maximum working age, hell i'd get plastic surgery to make me look younger if it took that long.
Dont have to worry about that though, i'm only 18 years of age hehe
Anyways i'd appreciate a response, i really am stuck and feel that you guys who have been there and done it can help.
Thanks.
I hear i'm competing against the best aviation has to offer, then hear hints and rumours that its rather wh you know rather than what you know. However i just want to know is, is the pilot training enough?
Say i managed to get my Frozen ATPL and i had a very high score in all the exams, the type of score you could be proud of. Would that still be enough or would i need all those degrees and A-levels?
Also if so, When i get those degrees and what not, do i NEED A-levels with it? I'm in a dihlemma where i can enter university 2 ways, the traditional A-level route and the science university level 0 route which basically equips me with the science i need to be a pilot and opens courses such as meteorology and such things up for me.
So lets say i do a good degree, will i still need thse A-levels? or will i be favoured over somebody with the A-levels?
I dont have the faintest clue as to what i must do and i am told one thing by somebody who supposedly knows, and told other things which totally contridict what i have previously been told.
This is my frustration...i just need to know what it is i am suppose to be doing, then i can crack on with it and produce the results.
Even if it means potentially risking a fortune, because in my opinion its worth that risk. If i fail i'm going to spend the remainder of my days trying, even if i am applying and i am over the maximum working age, hell i'd get plastic surgery to make me look younger if it took that long.
Dont have to worry about that though, i'm only 18 years of age hehe
Anyways i'd appreciate a response, i really am stuck and feel that you guys who have been there and done it can help.
Thanks.
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As I said above, I am unsure what your qualifications are equal to but :
If you want to fly in the RAF - YES you will need A-Levels .
If you want to fly commercial - Read quote from OAT website
Good Luck
If you want to fly in the RAF - YES you will need A-Levels .
If you want to fly commercial - Read quote from OAT website
Applicants for the APP First Officer course must be 17 years of age to attend the Skills Assesment. They must have a minimum of five GCSEs at grade C or above and these must include English language, mathematics and either physics or double science. Overseas applicants must have the equivalent of the above or higher. A-levels are not required; however, many airlines give hiring preference to those who have A-levels or otherwise meet university entrance requirements. Neither OAA nor any of the airlines require applicants to have university degrees.
Good Luck
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Do what you want
No you dont need A-levels to become a pilot.
thats your answer (and probbaly the one your actully looking for)
but it makes you a hell of a lot more attractive to an Airline if you have them!
my 2 bits do whats going to make you happy (not now but later on)
so you dnt look back when your 10 years into a job looking at 35 more and think i wish i took that time out and went to uni!
also think about pay etc (yes i know money isnt everything) but say your one of the majoritory of people that dont get to fly jets, without A-Levels or Degree what is there for you compared to if you do have them?
if you have a passion for aircraft go and do a degree in Air Transport or something and i'd advise doing your A-Levels, Maths Physics and 2 others that you enjoy.
Do Not do an Ology, studies or art (NB in my advice)
thats your answer (and probbaly the one your actully looking for)
but it makes you a hell of a lot more attractive to an Airline if you have them!
my 2 bits do whats going to make you happy (not now but later on)
so you dnt look back when your 10 years into a job looking at 35 more and think i wish i took that time out and went to uni!
also think about pay etc (yes i know money isnt everything) but say your one of the majoritory of people that dont get to fly jets, without A-Levels or Degree what is there for you compared to if you do have them?
if you have a passion for aircraft go and do a degree in Air Transport or something and i'd advise doing your A-Levels, Maths Physics and 2 others that you enjoy.
Do Not do an Ology, studies or art (NB in my advice)
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This question in one form or another turns up frequently. It is important to remember a few things when it comes to recruitment, in any industry and that includes aviation.
Firstly what is the employer looking for ? What experience do they require ? What qualifications do they stipulate ? Remember that for many jobs ( and particularly for attractive jobs) there will be a very high volume of applicants for each vacancy. With that in mind it is impossible to interview each and every possible applicant. The criteria is laid down to whittle down the number of applicants to a more manageble level. It is possible that you could offer a substitute qualification or level of experience if you do not otherwise meet the employers requirements, but in all likelyhood you are unlikely to be considered.
If an employer is looking for experienced pilots then they are more likely to pay attention to the relevant levels of experience, (hours on type, previous employment, type of operation, professional qualifications etc.) than they are to the educational certificates obtained 5,10,20 years ago. However the "catch 22" is how do you get into this position without having first overcome the initial qualifying criteria further down the food chain ?
The situation with airlines is that if you haven't got the required licences, then don't bother wasting their time. You may think they are interested in your future plans, and the letter they might send you saying "good luck in the future" may give that impression, but in reality without current and adequate professional qualification they are not interested.
At the next level up, licence holders with low levels of experience, you are in plentiful company. In other words there is no shortage of wannabees. For those companies that are prepared to consider employing low hour entrant pilots, the supply is abundant. It is here that the importance of educational qualifications comes into its own. No one should be under any illusion that there are plenty of applicants with good qualifications at high achievement grades. As I already mentioned, those qualification subjects, quantity and grades achieved are initially used as a way of simply reducing the application pile. For those that are successful in being selected for interview, the qualifications show a level of attainment, application and attitude that reflects on what the employer is looking for in the applicant.
It is true to say that good grades in secondary subjects are probably better than weak grades in primary subjects. The old favourites of Maths and Physics are always going to have an edge on other subjects, however excellent grades in say English Geography and Biology, are probably going to impress more than a candidate turning up with a C in Maths and a D in Physics. Unfortunetaly for the former there are a lot of candidates who turn up with good grades in good subjects, and clearly they will always have an advantage.
In summary, it is a game of numbers. There are plenty of people at the bottom of the pyramid, looking for the jobs near the top. Those with the best qualification criteria (or the highest grades/numbers) are most likely to fast track themselves to the next level. The higher you rise in the pyramid, so the criteria tends to become more experienced based. Even so there are jobs higher up the food chain where the educational criteria may once again become relevant.
For what it may be worth, you rarely see people at interview that are anything other than excellent candidates. They are usually articulate, well groomed, well educated and have a solid enthusiasm and knowledge of the position they are applying for. This is because the selection criteria from the information on their application forms and C.V's weeds out the vast majority of applicants who are anything else or anything less. Of course a few get through, but in reality the interview stage is used to make a final selection from a very strong group of applicants.
There are plenty of people who will tell you how they got to where they are (myself included) without anything more than average educational qualifications or indeed any at all. There are methods of achieving a career path that can sometimes overcome the normal requirements. This was certainly more the case in the past, and in times of supply shortage, than is the case today. Luck still plays a significant part in the process, and that is not necessarily relevant to your educational qualifications. However it would be very naiive to think that your chances of success in achieveing a fast track introduction into an airline career in todays world, would be best achieved with anything other than a good solid set of educational certificates to underpin the professional licences you are also required to hold.
I say this as a senior airline captain who has been involved with airline pilot recruitment. I also have an 18 year old son who like you has his heart set on a career as a professional pilot.
Trust me, when it comes to low hour pilots you are not competing with the "best aviation has to offer". You are competing with other low hour pilots who are trying to impress that they are the best educated, and presented individuals that they can be.
Firstly what is the employer looking for ? What experience do they require ? What qualifications do they stipulate ? Remember that for many jobs ( and particularly for attractive jobs) there will be a very high volume of applicants for each vacancy. With that in mind it is impossible to interview each and every possible applicant. The criteria is laid down to whittle down the number of applicants to a more manageble level. It is possible that you could offer a substitute qualification or level of experience if you do not otherwise meet the employers requirements, but in all likelyhood you are unlikely to be considered.
If an employer is looking for experienced pilots then they are more likely to pay attention to the relevant levels of experience, (hours on type, previous employment, type of operation, professional qualifications etc.) than they are to the educational certificates obtained 5,10,20 years ago. However the "catch 22" is how do you get into this position without having first overcome the initial qualifying criteria further down the food chain ?
The situation with airlines is that if you haven't got the required licences, then don't bother wasting their time. You may think they are interested in your future plans, and the letter they might send you saying "good luck in the future" may give that impression, but in reality without current and adequate professional qualification they are not interested.
At the next level up, licence holders with low levels of experience, you are in plentiful company. In other words there is no shortage of wannabees. For those companies that are prepared to consider employing low hour entrant pilots, the supply is abundant. It is here that the importance of educational qualifications comes into its own. No one should be under any illusion that there are plenty of applicants with good qualifications at high achievement grades. As I already mentioned, those qualification subjects, quantity and grades achieved are initially used as a way of simply reducing the application pile. For those that are successful in being selected for interview, the qualifications show a level of attainment, application and attitude that reflects on what the employer is looking for in the applicant.
It is true to say that good grades in secondary subjects are probably better than weak grades in primary subjects. The old favourites of Maths and Physics are always going to have an edge on other subjects, however excellent grades in say English Geography and Biology, are probably going to impress more than a candidate turning up with a C in Maths and a D in Physics. Unfortunetaly for the former there are a lot of candidates who turn up with good grades in good subjects, and clearly they will always have an advantage.
In summary, it is a game of numbers. There are plenty of people at the bottom of the pyramid, looking for the jobs near the top. Those with the best qualification criteria (or the highest grades/numbers) are most likely to fast track themselves to the next level. The higher you rise in the pyramid, so the criteria tends to become more experienced based. Even so there are jobs higher up the food chain where the educational criteria may once again become relevant.
For what it may be worth, you rarely see people at interview that are anything other than excellent candidates. They are usually articulate, well groomed, well educated and have a solid enthusiasm and knowledge of the position they are applying for. This is because the selection criteria from the information on their application forms and C.V's weeds out the vast majority of applicants who are anything else or anything less. Of course a few get through, but in reality the interview stage is used to make a final selection from a very strong group of applicants.
There are plenty of people who will tell you how they got to where they are (myself included) without anything more than average educational qualifications or indeed any at all. There are methods of achieving a career path that can sometimes overcome the normal requirements. This was certainly more the case in the past, and in times of supply shortage, than is the case today. Luck still plays a significant part in the process, and that is not necessarily relevant to your educational qualifications. However it would be very naiive to think that your chances of success in achieveing a fast track introduction into an airline career in todays world, would be best achieved with anything other than a good solid set of educational certificates to underpin the professional licences you are also required to hold.
I say this as a senior airline captain who has been involved with airline pilot recruitment. I also have an 18 year old son who like you has his heart set on a career as a professional pilot.
I hear i'm competing against the best aviation has to offer
A university course that gives you a qualification that you don't intend to directly use gives you the following:
3 years less to live
£13k of debt
A slightly enlarged liver.
Get good A - Levels then get busy pursuing your chosen career. You are lucky. You know at a young age what it is your want to do with your career. Take advantage of this rare fact and get busy making it happen.
WWW
3 years less to live
£13k of debt
A slightly enlarged liver.
Get good A - Levels then get busy pursuing your chosen career. You are lucky. You know at a young age what it is your want to do with your career. Take advantage of this rare fact and get busy making it happen.
WWW
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Get A Levels I would say, At the end of the day airlines have to assess you intially as a training risk, be that risk high or low. Now if you have a degree or at least the ability to get into a university it suggests to the airlines you have the capacity to absorb the groundschool and theoretical part of a type rating course. Of course with regard to handling skills and all of that, your CPL/IR MCC course(s) however you choose to do them will cover the flying part hopefully! 
I personally never took sciences or maths beyond GCSE, I don't have a degree either and I'm flying for a UK airline so having said all of the above at the end of the day it's whether you are what the airline is looking for that counts!
Good luck!
Atreyu
I personally never took sciences or maths beyond GCSE, I don't have a degree either and I'm flying for a UK airline so having said all of the above at the end of the day it's whether you are what the airline is looking for that counts!
Good luck!
Atreyu
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Finally!
Finally a guy (Bealzebub) comes a long and knows what he is talking about, why? Because he is completely right and knows from experience. If one looks at this forum you can just see that there are so many good guys with fATPL licenses etc. but no job. Even though I think this site is very negative a lot of the time, it is a refelction that there are many eager low hour pilots out there and to beat them you have to have the best attitude, character and academic qualifications you can. If Airlines can pick from the best, they are going to pick from the best , not from the average or good. The airlines are going to have to choose candidates some how so they may as well choose the ones with the high grades at A-Level and a Degree + D of E etc. Anything to separate you from the 'rest' as it were is going to count in your favour. **********NEVER NEGLECT ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS!**********
I have never heard of a univeristy 0 course however the simplist and most reliable answer you will get is by phoning the various flying schools and asking them if they will accept the qualification instead of A-levels. All flying schools require minimum 2 A-levels grade C and above if you wish to go on an integrated/cadet course.
PM me if you want some phone numbers, any answer from the forums isn't as reliable as one straight from the school itself.
University is not essential, most candidates are graduates but bear in mind when they went there were no fees. I applied after A-levels and have a place at a reputable flying school. However I would say it is essential to get some life experience in a full time job for a few months if you do not go to university. This will give you a few more examples to talk about in an interview where you worked in a team etc.. Any further questions PM me.
On a final note every selection/school I have visited has had successful applicants well over 23. 1 of the 4 golden spots on a partially sponsored Flybe scheme was 35, he was a good candidate full of life experience, calm and knowledgable.
PM me if you want some phone numbers, any answer from the forums isn't as reliable as one straight from the school itself.
University is not essential, most candidates are graduates but bear in mind when they went there were no fees. I applied after A-levels and have a place at a reputable flying school. However I would say it is essential to get some life experience in a full time job for a few months if you do not go to university. This will give you a few more examples to talk about in an interview where you worked in a team etc.. Any further questions PM me.
On a final note every selection/school I have visited has had successful applicants well over 23. 1 of the 4 golden spots on a partially sponsored Flybe scheme was 35, he was a good candidate full of life experience, calm and knowledgable.
