BA Sponsorship Rumour?
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Nick14 was responding to Mr. Horgy's post at the top of page 2.
What he meant was that the Thomas Cook, FlyBe, XL.com and NetJets cadets at OAA are chosen by the airlines and given a conditional job offer before they start training. This makes them off limits for BA recruitment via their SSP scheme, which occurs near the end of or even after completing OAA's integrated course. The assumption is that the cadet programmes soak up the "best and brightest" wannabes, which will eventually pressure BA to compete for them on the front end of the course instead of the back end. Multiply the effect by the 3-4 FTO's BA recruits from on the SSP scheme, since the other FTOs have cadet schemes as well and it could well be putting pressure on BA.
Clanger32 points out however that not all of the best and brightest necessarily care about locking down a job on the front end, so perhaps the pressure on BA is not as strong as Nick14 implies.
The truth probably lies somewhere between the two positions. I suspect the Baby Boomer retirement bubble that is predicted to hit BA in the next decade has more to do with why they might need a cadet programme, but the cadet recruitment competition for the high aptitude wannabes is probably a factor as well.
What he meant was that the Thomas Cook, FlyBe, XL.com and NetJets cadets at OAA are chosen by the airlines and given a conditional job offer before they start training. This makes them off limits for BA recruitment via their SSP scheme, which occurs near the end of or even after completing OAA's integrated course. The assumption is that the cadet programmes soak up the "best and brightest" wannabes, which will eventually pressure BA to compete for them on the front end of the course instead of the back end. Multiply the effect by the 3-4 FTO's BA recruits from on the SSP scheme, since the other FTOs have cadet schemes as well and it could well be putting pressure on BA.
Clanger32 points out however that not all of the best and brightest necessarily care about locking down a job on the front end, so perhaps the pressure on BA is not as strong as Nick14 implies.
The truth probably lies somewhere between the two positions. I suspect the Baby Boomer retirement bubble that is predicted to hit BA in the next decade has more to do with why they might need a cadet programme, but the cadet recruitment competition for the high aptitude wannabes is probably a factor as well.
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Yes that makes sense. I didn't understand what you meant the previous post.
How do you feel about the quality of training you are getting from OAA?
Do you think they really help with employment like they all say?
BTW, what are the 3-4 FTOs that BA do accept for low hour pilots?
Thanks
How do you feel about the quality of training you are getting from OAA?
Do you think they really help with employment like they all say?
BTW, what are the 3-4 FTOs that BA do accept for low hour pilots?
Thanks
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The truth probably lies somewhere between the two positions. I suspect the Baby Boomer retirement bubble that is predicted to hit BA in the next decade
what are the 3-4 FTOs that BA do accept for low hour pilots?
Last edited by Re-Heat; 5th Mar 2008 at 22:44.
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The airline’s current growth plans will mean the recruitment of more than 300 new BA pilots in the next two years.
Not implying anything here, just a fact to consider in the debate.
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im happy so far,
i have experience of other fto's and the whole industry has its own associated problems, these problems are pretty constant throughout the fto's but less pronounced in some as i believe they are with OAA.
groundschool was first class, flight training is excellent.
Im not too sure how much help they give with the job finding but ask me again in 5 months,
my friends say they have had some assistance.
Yes im most probably am wrong about BA, but you make ure mind up and voice ure opinion on what you have heard/experienced.
i have experience of other fto's and the whole industry has its own associated problems, these problems are pretty constant throughout the fto's but less pronounced in some as i believe they are with OAA.
groundschool was first class, flight training is excellent.
Im not too sure how much help they give with the job finding but ask me again in 5 months,
my friends say they have had some assistance.
Yes im most probably am wrong about BA, but you make ure mind up and voice ure opinion on what you have heard/experienced.
Last edited by nick14; 6th Mar 2008 at 02:11.
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Reheat,
The peak birth rate during the post WWII baby boom was 1960. Fast forward that lot to age 60 and the year will be 2020, so on the surface, I am not convinced they've all retired just yet. I'm not saying you are wrong, as I don't claim to be particularly well informed on BAs retirement issues. Have they released any studies on the matter?
Smell the coffee,
300 new pilots over two years is a tiny number for BA. When you consider that probably half or more would be DEPs, that leaves no more than 75 per year for SSPs from Cabair, FTE and OAA. These sort of numbers don't seem like they would create much pressure for a cadet programme unless BA really do fear they won't find the quality they want because of the other airlines with cadet schemes taking them first.
The peak birth rate during the post WWII baby boom was 1960. Fast forward that lot to age 60 and the year will be 2020, so on the surface, I am not convinced they've all retired just yet. I'm not saying you are wrong, as I don't claim to be particularly well informed on BAs retirement issues. Have they released any studies on the matter?
Smell the coffee,
300 new pilots over two years is a tiny number for BA. When you consider that probably half or more would be DEPs, that leaves no more than 75 per year for SSPs from Cabair, FTE and OAA. These sort of numbers don't seem like they would create much pressure for a cadet programme unless BA really do fear they won't find the quality they want because of the other airlines with cadet schemes taking them first.
The peak birth rate during the post WWII baby boom was 1960. Fast forward that lot to age 60 and the year will be 2020, so on the surface, I am not convinced they've all retired just yet.
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It seems as if the current demand for pilot recruitment is not being met by the supply of DEPs, SSPs and ex forces. The following is an extract from a letter to all pilots from the GM Resourcing and Strategy last December. Bear in mind the plan constantly changes, but nonetheless, the last line will be of interest to cadet wannabes. Please don't ask me questions as I have no more particular knowledge on the subject. Good luck though!
It is worth looking at BA’s fleet plans over the next year to dispel any
concerns you might have about your employment security or career
opportunities within mainline. At London we are embarking upon a period
of significant growth. Between January 2009 and April 2009, BA will take
delivery of 4 B777-200s and from August 2010 to February 2011, we will
see the arrival of the first 6 B787-8s. All of these aircraft are ‘growth’ hulls
and represent approximately 180 extra BA pilots on the master seniority
list. With part time working opportunities factored in (of which we have
received 128 bids in the current Priam round) and modest turnover
assumptions, we anticipate a level of recruitment that will exceed 150 in
the next financial year. Our future projections show that this will be the
minimum level of recruitment required in subsequent financial years. To
fund this recruitment, we will be evaluating a new ab-initio training
programme to guarantee supply of some of our pilot need.
It is worth looking at BA’s fleet plans over the next year to dispel any
concerns you might have about your employment security or career
opportunities within mainline. At London we are embarking upon a period
of significant growth. Between January 2009 and April 2009, BA will take
delivery of 4 B777-200s and from August 2010 to February 2011, we will
see the arrival of the first 6 B787-8s. All of these aircraft are ‘growth’ hulls
and represent approximately 180 extra BA pilots on the master seniority
list. With part time working opportunities factored in (of which we have
received 128 bids in the current Priam round) and modest turnover
assumptions, we anticipate a level of recruitment that will exceed 150 in
the next financial year. Our future projections show that this will be the
minimum level of recruitment required in subsequent financial years. To
fund this recruitment, we will be evaluating a new ab-initio training
programme to guarantee supply of some of our pilot need.
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Hey,
I think the comment that 'the best' get onto cadet schemes is very wrong. I know dam good pilots who are Integrated and modular and did not get onto cadet schemes due to some being to young and some being to old!
Also some pilots have no drive to work for airlines like netjets, I know many who wanted to fly airliners and not business jets to start their career, some who aim to fly jets and not turboprops hence why some people do not apply to Flybe.
Each to there own in my opinion, and all the best to everyone.
Cadet schemes are far and few between now these days, netjets seems to be the only continuous one at OAT.
The reason so many are going to Ryanair is it offers plenty of jet hours and a good place to start a career, nice aircraft even though the T&C are not the same as British Airways etc... (please do not start off slagging Ryanair, this is being done else where and to be honest has go way over the top).
I would agree that the chances are there for BA to open up a monitored scheme or offer some form of financial support, but I do not see it being a fully sponsored course. As many have said part sponsored will still get lorry after lorry pulling up at Cranebank with applications.
All the best to everyone I do hope this happens it will generate some fantastic opportunity and could force other airlines into the same situation, then you never know airlines might start offering more financial aid to candidates to try and draw more towards their company!
Who knows
ADWJENK
I think the comment that 'the best' get onto cadet schemes is very wrong. I know dam good pilots who are Integrated and modular and did not get onto cadet schemes due to some being to young and some being to old!
Also some pilots have no drive to work for airlines like netjets, I know many who wanted to fly airliners and not business jets to start their career, some who aim to fly jets and not turboprops hence why some people do not apply to Flybe.
Each to there own in my opinion, and all the best to everyone.
Cadet schemes are far and few between now these days, netjets seems to be the only continuous one at OAT.
The reason so many are going to Ryanair is it offers plenty of jet hours and a good place to start a career, nice aircraft even though the T&C are not the same as British Airways etc... (please do not start off slagging Ryanair, this is being done else where and to be honest has go way over the top).
I would agree that the chances are there for BA to open up a monitored scheme or offer some form of financial support, but I do not see it being a fully sponsored course. As many have said part sponsored will still get lorry after lorry pulling up at Cranebank with applications.
All the best to everyone I do hope this happens it will generate some fantastic opportunity and could force other airlines into the same situation, then you never know airlines might start offering more financial aid to candidates to try and draw more towards their company!
Who knows
ADWJENK
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Very well said adwjenk. I'm applying at a Oxford right now. Just waiting for my interview. Like you said, i'm interested in flying airline jets, hence why I didn't apply for NJ/FB.
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Just my 2cents but...
I think the largest Airline in the UK not offering any sort of sponsorship is shameful. There is no reason why the national flag carrier (I know Virgin technically is!!) couldn't lop off a little bit of the Fat Cats salaries at the top to provide some sort of Sponsorship program. BA's profits have been huge and the issue of training 20 or 30 Cadet Pilots a year to work for them shouldn't even be an issue.
This is all about cynical economics. Where is the promotion of flying for British Airways as a career? Surely there must be someone in the company who believes that British Airways has a responsibility to promote aviation and flying amongst the young or aspiring flyers!?
Yes there are enough of us willing to career into heavy debt in the pursute of a job, any job, flying with British Airways being the Gold Cup for many. But so what? It shouldnt all be about need. I know its not state run anymore and the better for it but, Quantas, Emirates, Singapore, Cathay and others all seem to do something!? - Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
This used to be one of the top jobs in the UK. A place for many aspiring young pilots to aim for, to work hard for. BA never sponsored huge amounts of people but it was the opportunity that counted. Now the ugly truth is that they don't need to sponsor....so they dont. Great. Inspiring isn't it?
M.M
I think the largest Airline in the UK not offering any sort of sponsorship is shameful. There is no reason why the national flag carrier (I know Virgin technically is!!) couldn't lop off a little bit of the Fat Cats salaries at the top to provide some sort of Sponsorship program. BA's profits have been huge and the issue of training 20 or 30 Cadet Pilots a year to work for them shouldn't even be an issue.
This is all about cynical economics. Where is the promotion of flying for British Airways as a career? Surely there must be someone in the company who believes that British Airways has a responsibility to promote aviation and flying amongst the young or aspiring flyers!?
Yes there are enough of us willing to career into heavy debt in the pursute of a job, any job, flying with British Airways being the Gold Cup for many. But so what? It shouldnt all be about need. I know its not state run anymore and the better for it but, Quantas, Emirates, Singapore, Cathay and others all seem to do something!? - Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
This used to be one of the top jobs in the UK. A place for many aspiring young pilots to aim for, to work hard for. BA never sponsored huge amounts of people but it was the opportunity that counted. Now the ugly truth is that they don't need to sponsor....so they dont. Great. Inspiring isn't it?
M.M
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BA's profits have been huge
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If BA could get back what they've paid in fines over the last 12 months, there'd be enough for shareholders, executive bonuses, a pay rise for employees and a cadet programme. That's not necessarily what they'd do with the funds, but it puts in perspective what a bad decision taken by a handful of misguided people can do to damage a great company. The old saying, "One Oh S*&t can wipe out a thousand attaboys" comes to mind. At least there is about to be good news as the fruit of a lot of dedication and hard work is about to open this month. Let's hope it's the start of a long upward trend.
