First Job Dilemma - advice needed
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Prepare for the sh*tstorm
I don't suppose you've seen the sticky on the Interviews, jobs & sponsorship forum (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=284418)
Brilliant 
I don't suppose you've seen the sticky on the Interviews, jobs & sponsorship forum (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=284418)
I have also heard instructing is a waste of time, and it's pretty easy and dead-end work
I personally was hoping for a starting salary of about £35,000 and a type rating and no bond
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Yup, shxitstorm indeed! If you dont take it then your absolutely off your head. I would also suggest that you have absolutely no comprehention of the current job and are yet another example of mum and dad has paid for everything!
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Take the first job regardless. Some are breaking their balls looking for jobs yet you are going to turn one down on the grounds of money despite the fact you have no debt to pay off!
I wouldn't make comments like that about instructing, it shows a complete lack of understanding about the job. Don't tell me you're one of those who came into this on a whim because mum and dad offered to pay?
I wouldn't make comments like that about instructing, it shows a complete lack of understanding about the job. Don't tell me you're one of those who came into this on a whim because mum and dad offered to pay?
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This post is a wind up....right?????? It made me chuckle anyhow! 
You are in a very very fortunate position, and one which many others would beg to be in. When you start flying, wether it's instructing or the first paid pilot job you realise all too quickly that even that you have that nice new licence you know nothing really. Reason is you have no experience. You gain experience from doing the instructor thing, or taking that first turboprop job. It's an apprenticeship. You learn every day, and there is no CPL IR or ME rating that will teach you that. To be frank, you may think your worth alot more, but belive me your not, and neither were any of us when we first started flying professionally. You will be so far behind the aircraft when you first start you wont know wether your up or down. It all comes together with experience, and thats when you start being worth your money.
Take the job. Your crazy not to, and i reckon in 12 months you will see exactly what i mean.....might not be the best move though to say instructing is a dead end job. If you take the 18K job tell your sim instructor and line trainer that instructing is a dead end job. Im confident it will get you off to a soaraway success, and you will indeed have a unique 'bond' with them.
Best of luck with it!
You are in a very very fortunate position, and one which many others would beg to be in. When you start flying, wether it's instructing or the first paid pilot job you realise all too quickly that even that you have that nice new licence you know nothing really. Reason is you have no experience. You gain experience from doing the instructor thing, or taking that first turboprop job. It's an apprenticeship. You learn every day, and there is no CPL IR or ME rating that will teach you that. To be frank, you may think your worth alot more, but belive me your not, and neither were any of us when we first started flying professionally. You will be so far behind the aircraft when you first start you wont know wether your up or down. It all comes together with experience, and thats when you start being worth your money.Take the job. Your crazy not to, and i reckon in 12 months you will see exactly what i mean.....might not be the best move though to say instructing is a dead end job. If you take the 18K job tell your sim instructor and line trainer that instructing is a dead end job. Im confident it will get you off to a soaraway success, and you will indeed have a unique 'bond' with them.
Best of luck with it!
Wunderbra
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Tabards, my advice would be don't take the job. Go do some instructing!
That will leave one more space for people who actually have a clue about the industry, and I'd love you to meet some of my instructors and tell them that they are in dead end jobs!
Oh, and as for earning more than 18k as a brand new, minimum hours instructor, you jest surely?
That will leave one more space for people who actually have a clue about the industry, and I'd love you to meet some of my instructors and tell them that they are in dead end jobs!
Oh, and as for earning more than 18k as a brand new, minimum hours instructor, you jest surely?
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tabards,
Ignore these lot. I wouldn't take the 18k job either, having no debts is great but still, that's not enough for any single guy starting out. Leave the turboprops to the desperate ones.
More to the point, I hear Virgin are currently recruiting frozen ATPL (that's what you've got) on the 747 (that's what they fly), only those with no debts or financial complications accepted though so you're straight in the minority bracket. I believe starting pay is 60k, 650hrs working hours a year with company car and profit share. Time to command less than 4 years aswell.
Ignore these lot. I wouldn't take the 18k job either, having no debts is great but still, that's not enough for any single guy starting out. Leave the turboprops to the desperate ones.
More to the point, I hear Virgin are currently recruiting frozen ATPL (that's what you've got) on the 747 (that's what they fly), only those with no debts or financial complications accepted though so you're straight in the minority bracket. I believe starting pay is 60k, 650hrs working hours a year with company car and profit share. Time to command less than 4 years aswell.
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I'm with you avrodamo this is got to be a wind up.
Tabards...... by now you should be at the door of your new employer if you have gotten the gist of what these posts have informed you to do. I hope that you do not let on to your instructor that you have been on Pprune as he may be able to add 2 & 2.
If I was your father, I would by now be suffering from severe embarrassment and probably thinking of how I could give you a fair kick up the arrrssse and get you to repay the money that your mother and I foolishly paid out with good intentions.
Tabards...... by now you should be at the door of your new employer if you have gotten the gist of what these posts have informed you to do. I hope that you do not let on to your instructor that you have been on Pprune as he may be able to add 2 & 2.
If I was your father, I would by now be suffering from severe embarrassment and probably thinking of how I could give you a fair kick up the arrrssse and get you to repay the money that your mother and I foolishly paid out with good intentions.
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I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth and request more salary, they will hand the job to the next guy who will gladly take it off your hands for the salary offered, believe me.
There are a lot of folks who take instructor jobs as a stepping stone to build hours towards getting an airline job. They might be good instructors, but they also might be just staring out of the window at the shiny jets on the tarmac. This is one of the reasons FI pay is as low as it is, as schools take advantage of 'hour builders'. Career instructors, teaching CPL/IR etc, can expect a high salary in comparison.
You'd be crazy not to take the job you've been offered. If you turn it down it might be a long time before you get another offer. You are in possibly the most fortunate position you can be in in this career and you have no debt, so you are the exception to the rule in any cases I've ever heard of.
Take the job, build 1500hrs experience, then if you want you'll be in a much better position to move onto something bigger and better in the future with a starting salary of £40k+.
There are a lot of folks who take instructor jobs as a stepping stone to build hours towards getting an airline job. They might be good instructors, but they also might be just staring out of the window at the shiny jets on the tarmac. This is one of the reasons FI pay is as low as it is, as schools take advantage of 'hour builders'. Career instructors, teaching CPL/IR etc, can expect a high salary in comparison.
You'd be crazy not to take the job you've been offered. If you turn it down it might be a long time before you get another offer. You are in possibly the most fortunate position you can be in in this career and you have no debt, so you are the exception to the rule in any cases I've ever heard of.
Take the job, build 1500hrs experience, then if you want you'll be in a much better position to move onto something bigger and better in the future with a starting salary of £40k+.
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Did you actually do any research as to what the job is all about these days??
I reccommend you DONT take the job and keep chasing the money, to leave a bit of room for the guys that are busting their guts to get that first job....
......and prepare to be exploited....!!
I reccommend you DONT take the job and keep chasing the money, to leave a bit of room for the guys that are busting their guts to get that first job....
I don't think £35,000 is too much to ask for a starting salary, after all, over £50,000 was spent on my training. If you value yourself less, then employers will exploit you.
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If I were you, I would consider growing up a little. Take a step out of the cotton wool which you seem to be wrapped up in. Have a look at the real world and stop talking bollox.
Some people, who do they think they are eh?
Some people, who do they think they are eh?
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I would say take the job on one condition...
Ask them (sorry TELL them) that you are worth more and want the £35,000 minimum. On your way out of the office, please close the door behind you as the gusts of wind will blow the piles of CVs all over the place
On a serious note, you wont find a first job with super pay so easily. BTW which company is this and where did you do yr training?
Ask them (sorry TELL them) that you are worth more and want the £35,000 minimum. On your way out of the office, please close the door behind you as the gusts of wind will blow the piles of CVs all over the place
On a serious note, you wont find a first job with super pay so easily. BTW which company is this and where did you do yr training?
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Hey Getns,
I was wondering if someone can get a real job (FO) with 200+ hrs? What are the job oppurtunities for CPL/IR & ME holders with 200 hrs?
Regards,
AvEnthusiast
I was wondering if someone can get a real job (FO) with 200+ hrs? What are the job oppurtunities for CPL/IR & ME holders with 200 hrs?
Regards,
AvEnthusiast
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6 weeks to get a job? And you have a view like that?
It makes me feel really bad about our situation. Most of the guys I know have been looking for months and still do not have any leads. I've been looking for 2 months, and haven't had anything.
Take the job, accept the salary and just get on with it.
It's your first job, as with every first job out there, don't expect anything other than these conditions. £35000 as a starting salary though, and deluded when you don't get it? Negotiate? Stop being such a gold digger and get on with flying. There are many people out there, including me, who would sacrifice variosu parts of their body for a job offer like that right now.
It makes me feel really bad about our situation. Most of the guys I know have been looking for months and still do not have any leads. I've been looking for 2 months, and haven't had anything.
Take the job, accept the salary and just get on with it.
It's your first job, as with every first job out there, don't expect anything other than these conditions. £35000 as a starting salary though, and deluded when you don't get it? Negotiate? Stop being such a gold digger and get on with flying. There are many people out there, including me, who would sacrifice variosu parts of their body for a job offer like that right now.
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Agreed assymetricdrift.
Tabards you have to understand who is in control and who has the advantage. They (the airlines) are not here to do you a favour just because you've spent a load of cash on training. Supply of pilots outstrips demand when it comes to newly qualified fATPLs, that means they can pick and choose, and also means they won't negotiate. Take it or leave it.
The other thing to note is you will have your type rating paid for. They will start you on a lower salary.
Please take the time to read the thread I posted above, it really is sobering to see the desperation and despondency newly qualified pilots with no job offer. It may put your feet back on the ground.
edit: thread mentioned above http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=284418
Tabards you have to understand who is in control and who has the advantage. They (the airlines) are not here to do you a favour just because you've spent a load of cash on training. Supply of pilots outstrips demand when it comes to newly qualified fATPLs, that means they can pick and choose, and also means they won't negotiate. Take it or leave it.
The other thing to note is you will have your type rating paid for. They will start you on a lower salary.
Please take the time to read the thread I posted above, it really is sobering to see the desperation and despondency newly qualified pilots with no job offer. It may put your feet back on the ground.
edit: thread mentioned above http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=284418
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The guys either a troll or a a
ole from a intergrated school and has started to believe the bull
t he has been fed.
Listen sonny why don't you go and play on the motorway until you grow up!
ole from a intergrated school and has started to believe the bullt he has been fed.Listen sonny why don't you go and play on the motorway until you grow up!
I smell a troll BUT if its genuine then the obvious advice is to take the job immediately. As you gain time in the industry you will then become aware of how lucky you were to get a job offer on a jet after 6 weeks with 200hrs.
After 5 years you will have enough hours to apply to Virgin or whoever it is that takes your fancy and your bond will have expired and you'll still be very young.
WWW
After 5 years you will have enough hours to apply to Virgin or whoever it is that takes your fancy and your bond will have expired and you'll still be very young.
WWW