Women Pilots
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scratchingthesky - I know 1 captain and 4 co-pilots within my large company who have had kids and have returned to flying straight after their maternity leave. I think that they're all part-time and I'm fairly sure that they all intend to fly for approx 40 years in all as they are all career minded. Most share the child-care with their partner, some also have parents nearby who help out. They're all currently on short-haul routes so can get home more frequently than our long-haul colleagues.
Paid child-care tends to be focused on 9-5 jobs and is therefore more expensive and harder to get hold of.
The BA pilot who you're referring to had a good legal case because BA kept changing their reason as to why she wasn't allowed part-time work. Initially they said that they were simply too short of First Officers on her fleet. No mention of safety issues at all. They only decided to introduce a minimum 2000 hour rule many months AFTER her pregnancy and part-time application. They changed the rules not her. If that had been a rule before hand she would have planned accordingly.
Fly_Gurl - As with you I'm both career and family minded. At no point during my application, training or 9 years so far with my company has anyone indicated I would have to give up my flying permanently in order to bring up my children. In fact, when I went for my initial medical back in '95 they were at pains to stress they had a creche available at one airport. My husband and I know it's going to be tough but I would hate to have to give up my career when we have children. I have always relied on the fact that part-time work is available and that our combined salaries would help with child-care costs.
Milt - As red snail says, with adjustable rudder pedals and seating there's a reasonable range of builds that can fit behind a control column. As long as you can get full rudder in - for the engine failure case - you're fine and that's something that can be checked on a simulator before starting a conversion course. You should see some of the beer bellies that manage to fit!
I think that our company has a 5'1" cut-off.
Paid child-care tends to be focused on 9-5 jobs and is therefore more expensive and harder to get hold of.
The BA pilot who you're referring to had a good legal case because BA kept changing their reason as to why she wasn't allowed part-time work. Initially they said that they were simply too short of First Officers on her fleet. No mention of safety issues at all. They only decided to introduce a minimum 2000 hour rule many months AFTER her pregnancy and part-time application. They changed the rules not her. If that had been a rule before hand she would have planned accordingly.
Fly_Gurl - As with you I'm both career and family minded. At no point during my application, training or 9 years so far with my company has anyone indicated I would have to give up my flying permanently in order to bring up my children. In fact, when I went for my initial medical back in '95 they were at pains to stress they had a creche available at one airport. My husband and I know it's going to be tough but I would hate to have to give up my career when we have children. I have always relied on the fact that part-time work is available and that our combined salaries would help with child-care costs.
Milt - As red snail says, with adjustable rudder pedals and seating there's a reasonable range of builds that can fit behind a control column. As long as you can get full rudder in - for the engine failure case - you're fine and that's something that can be checked on a simulator before starting a conversion course. You should see some of the beer bellies that manage to fit!
I think that our company has a 5'1" cut-off.
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girls with wings
There's a great website set up by Lynda Meeks, a female airline pilot-www.girlswithwings.com which hopes to encourage more girls into all aspects of aviation ranging from pilots to controllers, managers and engineers. The site encourages females in aviation to write a short biography to hopefully inspire youngsters to follow their path or carve out their own. Any female pilots reading this might like to write their own biography to go on the site, you will be in good company- some of the stories are amazing.
Along with the Oxford bursary there are also The Air League's annual award for Women in Aviation as well as the British Women Pilots Association's Amy Johnson memorial scholarship to help towards CPL/ATPL training.
Along with the Oxford bursary there are also The Air League's annual award for Women in Aviation as well as the British Women Pilots Association's Amy Johnson memorial scholarship to help towards CPL/ATPL training.
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Looptheloop, I have to say that I'm not in favour of single sex scholarships like that. I would be taken aback if men had something similar. We should be encouraging whoever wants to be a pilot - regardless of their gender - not just women. Why the positive discrimination?
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Very well said Paddington!
In this world thats gone PC mad, I think offering a bursary to one and not to the other is unfair and discriminating. Imagine it the other way around
There would be uproar.
Flying in my opinion is not a gender issue. The aeroplane does not know who's flying it. If a person is competent, they make the grade regardless of gender, race, etc.
A level playing field for all I say .
See you on deck
In this world thats gone PC mad, I think offering a bursary to one and not to the other is unfair and discriminating. Imagine it the other way around
There would be uproar.Flying in my opinion is not a gender issue. The aeroplane does not know who's flying it. If a person is competent, they make the grade regardless of gender, race, etc.
A level playing field for all I say .
See you on deck
Last edited by Bearing 123; 19th Feb 2008 at 16:41.
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Previously captain on airbus,had the opportunity to have as f/o a young woman and she had a fascinating fluency in her job as a pilot as well as handling her husband(A340 capt) and a 2 year old baby.
They try share the time in the air and on the ground.And the company helps them with a 'proper' scheduling of their flights.
Somehow I still remember her telling me about seeing her hubby an average of 7 days a month.
They try share the time in the air and on the ground.And the company helps them with a 'proper' scheduling of their flights.
Somehow I still remember her telling me about seeing her hubby an average of 7 days a month.
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I agree that scholarships should be given to who ever is considered most worthy. The two that i made reference to are slightly different, one is given by the British Womens Pilots Association which i would imagine have a rationale to encourage more women into aviation and is given in memory of Amy Johnson. The second is just one of many given by the Air League for a whole host of reasons, many of their scholarships are aimed at youngsters just starting their flying career, male and female. I believe it is the discretion of the person who contributes the money for the award who can stipulate what criteria it is given under.
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I'm glad to hear that the Air League award to whoever is most worthy.
When I first became interested in flying I heard about the British Womens Pilots Association. I decided not to join on priniciple because I wouldn't have liked to have seen a male equivalent. I agree that whoever puts up the money can stipulate the criteria. I just don't happen to agree with them myself!
I suppose that you could argue that this particular scholarship wouldn't otherwise exist and that it's better to have a discriminatory one than none at all.
When I first became interested in flying I heard about the British Womens Pilots Association. I decided not to join on priniciple because I wouldn't have liked to have seen a male equivalent. I agree that whoever puts up the money can stipulate the criteria. I just don't happen to agree with them myself!
I suppose that you could argue that this particular scholarship wouldn't otherwise exist and that it's better to have a discriminatory one than none at all.
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No worries
Hey Davina,
I don't think mixing flying (as a job) and having a family creates problems for women in particular. If it did, the problems would be in theory the same as for men. Of course, traditions used to want that men go to work, bring money home to feed the family, and women would stay home taking care of the children. That doesn't mean anything to me. What I mean is as long as you find the right balance, anything is possible. There is no reason for doubting this, coz hey - for us pilots or dreamers, what's better than flying and having a family, and what's better than combining both?
Hope I've been useful to you,
xxx all the best for the future
Kenny
I don't think mixing flying (as a job) and having a family creates problems for women in particular. If it did, the problems would be in theory the same as for men. Of course, traditions used to want that men go to work, bring money home to feed the family, and women would stay home taking care of the children. That doesn't mean anything to me. What I mean is as long as you find the right balance, anything is possible. There is no reason for doubting this, coz hey - for us pilots or dreamers, what's better than flying and having a family, and what's better than combining both?
Hope I've been useful to you,
xxx all the best for the future
Kenny
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Thats great everyone, thanks so much for everyone's responses and PM's. I hadn't heard of the Womens Pilots Association either, have just been browsing.
Thanks everyone.xxxxxxxxx
Thanks everyone.xxxxxxxxx
flaco sos un fraude
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2000 bursary for women is such a joke!
where are all the equal rights feminists? oh wait the ladies are getting discriminated against in a preferential manner, and its the men who are getting shafted - hence this type of discrimination is ok, nothing to worry about great?
where are all the equal rights feminists? oh wait the ladies are getting discriminated against in a preferential manner, and its the men who are getting shafted - hence this type of discrimination is ok, nothing to worry about great?
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Couldnt help but think of this while reading this thread.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou0X5D8KKB0
DPT
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For a start, doing aeronautical engineering at uni as one of only a few girls in a class of 150, in terms of the group stuff/exams etc, alot (not all!) of the guys just assume you dont have a clue and are only doing it cos you think planes are pretty and you're only doing the course cos you want to learn how to design your own pink, personalised flowery one. (and this was after a good few visits of my school career advisor trying to suggest something thats maybe 'a bit more suited')
Then when I started my PPL I had to change instructors as the first guy I had was constantly perving and hitting on me and making me feel generally uncomfortable.
I think you'll find the point of the Amy Johnson scholarship and also things like the BWPA are all in place to ENCOURAGE more women into aviation. The same women who have probably been discouraged from aviation by the likes of the above situations and attitudes from dinosaurs like yourself.
Also im not a dinosaur, im 24.
Its just my own personal experience, but if, as you put it, "women are being discriminated against in a preferential manner and its the men who are getting shafted", whats one award of £2000 a year compared to how hard it can be for the rest of the year?
And if it bothers you that much, whats to stop you dressing up in a skirt and tights and applying for it yourself?
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Harry Enfield is a legend I think it's fair to say dontpressthat.
colette,
If I'm honest I don't see how it would be harder for women to get into aviation. Opinions of the majority of men towards women in the cockpit are that they are equal. Perhaps some women think they are seeing something that simply isn't there anymore? It just happens to be a fact that more males are into it than females.
The problem is that in trying to 'encourage' females into aviation, it is putting males at a practical disadvantage. If there was a male only bursary, which I would also be against, given by OAA and say (if there was such thing) the BMPA I bet it would put a lot of females out. Very much like the female only thing annoys the likes of MarkColeman who has made a very fair point all be it in a perceived anti-women way by yourself.
I can't help but feel that you think women should be wrapped up in cotton wool and treated preferentially, when infact (shock horror) 99% of problems females face are probably faced by males aswell. It's not all about gender. Get over it.
And why does it bother you so much about being seen as different on an aero eng course? Why let it get to you? People are seen as different more often for their attitude than their sex
colette,
If I'm honest I don't see how it would be harder for women to get into aviation. Opinions of the majority of men towards women in the cockpit are that they are equal. Perhaps some women think they are seeing something that simply isn't there anymore? It just happens to be a fact that more males are into it than females.
The problem is that in trying to 'encourage' females into aviation, it is putting males at a practical disadvantage. If there was a male only bursary, which I would also be against, given by OAA and say (if there was such thing) the BMPA I bet it would put a lot of females out. Very much like the female only thing annoys the likes of MarkColeman who has made a very fair point all be it in a perceived anti-women way by yourself.
I can't help but feel that you think women should be wrapped up in cotton wool and treated preferentially, when infact (shock horror) 99% of problems females face are probably faced by males aswell. It's not all about gender. Get over it.
And why does it bother you so much about being seen as different on an aero eng course? Why let it get to you? People are seen as different more often for their attitude than their sex
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Having being in the industry for about 20 years I have found that for most of the time there's no issue about gender. Note, I did not say that there is NO issue whatsoever.
I have encountered some instructors with a bias against women. I have found some passengers and students with the same attitude. Fortunately, the vast majority are fine. I still find some nationalities have a definite bias against women.
I don't know why guys get all bent out of shape about the BWPA and AWPA bursaries. Since the person leaving the money states exactly how it is to be spent as per their will, they (AWPA and BWPA) lose that money if it isn't used correctly. Both organisations also provide money for both genders. So, if those organisations didn't exist, both would lose out. Also, if many of the bursaries have quite strict rules, some do require paying back.
Quite a few of the bursaries are for PPL holders only any way so they are no threat to any one wanting a professional license.
I know a few women who've missed out on this career because they were born too early in the 20th century and thus, couldn't fly for a living because they were expected to quit flying post WW2. Is that fair?
I don't agree that a "minority" should have extra allowances and the like. That does ruin it for all.
1% of all ATPL holders are women. Guys, I'd worry about the other 99%.
I have encountered some instructors with a bias against women. I have found some passengers and students with the same attitude. Fortunately, the vast majority are fine. I still find some nationalities have a definite bias against women.
I don't know why guys get all bent out of shape about the BWPA and AWPA bursaries. Since the person leaving the money states exactly how it is to be spent as per their will, they (AWPA and BWPA) lose that money if it isn't used correctly. Both organisations also provide money for both genders. So, if those organisations didn't exist, both would lose out. Also, if many of the bursaries have quite strict rules, some do require paying back.
Quite a few of the bursaries are for PPL holders only any way so they are no threat to any one wanting a professional license.
I know a few women who've missed out on this career because they were born too early in the 20th century and thus, couldn't fly for a living because they were expected to quit flying post WW2. Is that fair?
I don't agree that a "minority" should have extra allowances and the like. That does ruin it for all.
1% of all ATPL holders are women. Guys, I'd worry about the other 99%.
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Colette, I'm sorry about the experiences that you've had.
In a decade of flying I've had only a handful of comments/experiences from my coursemates/instructors/colleagues which might be construed as sexist. On the whole they've treated me exactly the same as my male colleagues. It's the passengers who react in an exaggerated fashion - whether positively or negatively - and make me feel as if I'm standing under a spot-light!
In a decade of flying I've had only a handful of comments/experiences from my coursemates/instructors/colleagues which might be construed as sexist. On the whole they've treated me exactly the same as my male colleagues. It's the passengers who react in an exaggerated fashion - whether positively or negatively - and make me feel as if I'm standing under a spot-light!