Are things slowing down?
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As always some thought if not debate provoking commentary from WWW. It seems that the technical aspect of learning to fly isn't really an issue as much as finance and time are. With the economic background about to change now really would be a good time to 'think' about your situation and not just listen to the marketing people at the FTOs who are talking to your ego rather than your mind. Recession or not, common sense will always be a safe bet and you can rest assured that making a sensible non-sexy, non-ego driven decision will pay dividends later. It's very easy to fall into the usual trap "of buy it now otherwise you're worthless" syndrome that we're all plagued with in society but flight training is no small handbag, coffee table, sat nav or dvd box set it's alot more expensive than that.
Alot of people seem to pour scorn onto WWW views but as stated they are the negatively leveraged opinions in this debate and it's upto others to balance those with contrary ones. The mere absence of the later shows how the -ve aspect is starting to take hold at all levels of society, whether banks, business leaders or even filtering down to the chap doing his Xmas shopping on Oxford street.
Perhaps now is the time to re-examine the training priorities and reschedule, after all you need to have the likelihood of a job at the end of it in order for it to work. This can also be seen as a breather and that's no bad thing because alot more people than before can train slower and pay-as-you-go rather than sourcing significant amounts of debt. This will allow more wannabes to have a slightly less stressful time post training knowing that the debt is somewhat more manageable and hasn't mushroomed. If you've got your finger stuck in a sticky debt pie then maybe now is the time to withdraw from it and approach the problem with smaller debt. This holds especially true for the mummy and daddy's remortgaged house lot, that's not cool. If you can renegotiate some or all of it and attempt to reduce it in order to only pay for the training already done then fine. Maybe have a half and half debt where you pay 50% of your training costs by simultaneously working or from savings (pay-as-you-go). Don't scoff at that idea, 50% reduction is debt is a big deal especially when it comes to repayment time. But alas there are those who think working full time and training is too much for them, not so. It's the same degree of sacrifice as most people boast they'll make post training in order to secure an interview/first job. Then why can't you approach your training like that? That way you'll really feel like you've put yourself through something and can only help to mature your life outlook.
It'll also help keep your parents/relatives property safe too. No flight training not aviation job is worth losing someone's home over. Just because an option is there doesn't mean that you have to always take it.
Alot of people seem to pour scorn onto WWW views but as stated they are the negatively leveraged opinions in this debate and it's upto others to balance those with contrary ones. The mere absence of the later shows how the -ve aspect is starting to take hold at all levels of society, whether banks, business leaders or even filtering down to the chap doing his Xmas shopping on Oxford street.
Perhaps now is the time to re-examine the training priorities and reschedule, after all you need to have the likelihood of a job at the end of it in order for it to work. This can also be seen as a breather and that's no bad thing because alot more people than before can train slower and pay-as-you-go rather than sourcing significant amounts of debt. This will allow more wannabes to have a slightly less stressful time post training knowing that the debt is somewhat more manageable and hasn't mushroomed. If you've got your finger stuck in a sticky debt pie then maybe now is the time to withdraw from it and approach the problem with smaller debt. This holds especially true for the mummy and daddy's remortgaged house lot, that's not cool. If you can renegotiate some or all of it and attempt to reduce it in order to only pay for the training already done then fine. Maybe have a half and half debt where you pay 50% of your training costs by simultaneously working or from savings (pay-as-you-go). Don't scoff at that idea, 50% reduction is debt is a big deal especially when it comes to repayment time. But alas there are those who think working full time and training is too much for them, not so. It's the same degree of sacrifice as most people boast they'll make post training in order to secure an interview/first job. Then why can't you approach your training like that? That way you'll really feel like you've put yourself through something and can only help to mature your life outlook.
It'll also help keep your parents/relatives property safe too. No flight training not aviation job is worth losing someone's home over. Just because an option is there doesn't mean that you have to always take it.
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PPL student, yours seems to be a good plan considering your circumstances and perhaps that's the real issue here, individual circumstances. For those who are stretching themselves just like the property boom years you'll be putting yourself at risk.
With a dry airline market the course cost of being a true contender will go up to as they'll be asking for a Type Rating for sure either privately or with them where you still pay. I doubt it'll stop there neither and you they may start sniffing around for multi crew experience or further time on type. Makes the initial CPL/IR issue look cheap and basic
Keep going if you must there's no one saying otherwise but just engage your head at each and every step and always be ready to regress if need be.
With a dry airline market the course cost of being a true contender will go up to as they'll be asking for a Type Rating for sure either privately or with them where you still pay. I doubt it'll stop there neither and you they may start sniffing around for multi crew experience or further time on type. Makes the initial CPL/IR issue look cheap and basic
Keep going if you must there's no one saying otherwise but just engage your head at each and every step and always be ready to regress if need be.
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It will all look brighter in the new year. Interest rates will fall and so your training will be cheaper and more people will be able to afford their first mortgage and to learn to fly Oil prices have eased and the middle east is settling down nicely.
Now we just have to deal with usual the end of year doom mongers and were sorted
Now we just have to deal with usual the end of year doom mongers and were sorted
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If at the end, you still don't have a job, then could you afford to wipe-off the costs and go back to your present job? If yes, then it would be OK.
For some people who go modular or integrated, they don't get jobs (except CTC graduates). You've got to be lucky, in the right place at the right time and know people (or know people who know people, i.e. the right school).
If integrated gets you a shot at BA, then it would be worth it in my view.
If at the end, you still don't have a job, then could you afford to wipe-off the costs and go back to your present job? If yes, then it would be OK.
For some people who go modular or integrated, they don't get jobs (except CTC graduates). You've got to be lucky, in the right place at the right time and know people (or know people who know people, i.e. the right school).
If integrated gets you a shot at BA, then it would be worth it in my view.
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RV800 people are just giving a range of views from a range of different perspectives.
For every "doom monger" on here there is a flight instructor/school with a vested interest in tempting wanabees into diving head first into debt to profit from their "dream" giving a equally unbalanced upbeat view.... there are also those currently going through training who desparately want to believe the market is not slowing (I am in the "in-training" bracket) to those that are already working in the airlines who would strike me to have no personal agenda other that to warn those following in their footsteps of certain pitfalls (the WWW camp?)..... I don't know which one of these camps you are in... and if interest rates fall it is because the UK economy is slowing... interest rates fall for a reason and it is usually the turn in the economic cycle... if you believe that how is that good news?
For every "doom monger" on here there is a flight instructor/school with a vested interest in tempting wanabees into diving head first into debt to profit from their "dream" giving a equally unbalanced upbeat view.... there are also those currently going through training who desparately want to believe the market is not slowing (I am in the "in-training" bracket) to those that are already working in the airlines who would strike me to have no personal agenda other that to warn those following in their footsteps of certain pitfalls (the WWW camp?)..... I don't know which one of these camps you are in... and if interest rates fall it is because the UK economy is slowing... interest rates fall for a reason and it is usually the turn in the economic cycle... if you believe that how is that good news?
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I have been following this thread with interest.
I am 1 of approximately 25 Captains and First Officers affectively made redundant in October due to base closures in the UK. The company blamed its actions on poor forward bookings due to Mr Beans Air PAX duty, BAA PAX handling charge and fuel price increases. This is not to mention nearly 200 cabin crew that lost their jobs to. Draw your own conclusions, but it is a fact that this winter will difficult time for some operators and will be make or break. On a positive note all of the flight deck had new jobs within 30 days, however our move sideways into other company's stops people at the bottom of the food chain moving up.
And no sponsor, with all due respect, would you really spend an extra 30K on your training on the of chance you "MIGHT" get a shot at an interview to work for one of Europes most stagnant airlines? Think about what you just said? I think your statement equals commercial suicide.
For example, just finished ground school with my new company, half the group was direct entry pilots, the other half 200hr cadets. All the cadets were a decent bunch of guys having to pay for there own initial type ratings, from what I could gather none of them had pots of cash, all training financed. Probably 15% of the cadets were integrated background, now, if I was in that 15% I would be feeling pretty embarassed that I'd spent all that extra money to get the same job as everyone else. Thats not to mention the fact I may have been sent by the school to the USA and been milked to death by the fact they are raking it in with the $2 pound..................i'd be asking for a discount.
Im with other posters, people should carry on training but need to understand that interest charges will eat you alive. Make use of the strong pound while it lasts and dont blow all your budget on initial training - budget after training to stay current, get your first job etc!
I am 1 of approximately 25 Captains and First Officers affectively made redundant in October due to base closures in the UK. The company blamed its actions on poor forward bookings due to Mr Beans Air PAX duty, BAA PAX handling charge and fuel price increases. This is not to mention nearly 200 cabin crew that lost their jobs to. Draw your own conclusions, but it is a fact that this winter will difficult time for some operators and will be make or break. On a positive note all of the flight deck had new jobs within 30 days, however our move sideways into other company's stops people at the bottom of the food chain moving up.
And no sponsor, with all due respect, would you really spend an extra 30K on your training on the of chance you "MIGHT" get a shot at an interview to work for one of Europes most stagnant airlines? Think about what you just said? I think your statement equals commercial suicide.
For example, just finished ground school with my new company, half the group was direct entry pilots, the other half 200hr cadets. All the cadets were a decent bunch of guys having to pay for there own initial type ratings, from what I could gather none of them had pots of cash, all training financed. Probably 15% of the cadets were integrated background, now, if I was in that 15% I would be feeling pretty embarassed that I'd spent all that extra money to get the same job as everyone else. Thats not to mention the fact I may have been sent by the school to the USA and been milked to death by the fact they are raking it in with the $2 pound..................i'd be asking for a discount.
Im with other posters, people should carry on training but need to understand that interest charges will eat you alive. Make use of the strong pound while it lasts and dont blow all your budget on initial training - budget after training to stay current, get your first job etc!
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I am not particularly good at interviews and I think the extra money is worth spending for the chance of getting a recommendation and some advice from the school
As a footnote, its worth mentioning that the integrated school I went to provided very little assistance in the way of interview technique. They did get me an interview however.
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Reading this excellent thread shows the pitfalls in our industry especially when undertaking initial training. To all of you deciding on your route to train read WWW posts carefully.
I trained self improver (modular) and instructed along the way, survived 09/11and came out other end. Next year could be a hard time for the industry full stop.
I certainly am thinking long and hard about changing companies. A safe seat is my first thought.
I trained self improver (modular) and instructed along the way, survived 09/11and came out other end. Next year could be a hard time for the industry full stop.
I certainly am thinking long and hard about changing companies. A safe seat is my first thought.
Just as a matter of historical interest here is a list of now sadly defunct UK airlines:
AB Airlines (ceased operations 1999)
air2000 (now First Choice Airways)
Air Anglia (precursor of AirUK, now part of KLM's Cityhopper division)
Air Bristol
Air Caledonian (2003 - 05)
Air Cordial (ceased operations 2004)
Air Europe (1979 - 91)
Airfreight Express (1999 - 2003)
Air Scandic (1997 - 2005)
AirUK
Airways International Cymru (1984 - 88)
Ambassador Airways (1992 - 94)
Amber Airways
Anglo Cargo (1983 -92)
Aquila Airways
Autair International (precursor of Court Line)
AV8 Air
Bookajet (2003 - 04, to Club 328)
British Airtours (former charter subsidiary of British Airways)
British Airways Ltd (1935 - 39)
BCAL - British Caledonian Airways (1970 - 88, acquired by British Airways)
British Cargo Airlines (1979 - 80)
British Continental Airways (ceased operations 1935)
British Eagle (ceased operations in 1968)
British European Airways (BEA) (1946 - 74, to British Airways)
British European (became flybe)
British Marine Air Navigation Co (1923 - 24)
BOAC - British Overseas Airways Corporation (1939 - 74, to British Airways)
British Regional Airlines (1997 - 2002)
British South American Airways (BSSA) (1946 - 49)
British United Air Ferries
British United Airways (1960 - 70, merged with Caledonian)
British World Airlines (1946 - 2001)
Brymon Airways (1972 - 2002)
Buzz (1999 - 2003, acquired by Ryanair)
Caledonian Airways (1961 - 70 and 1974 - 2000)
Cambrian Airways (1935 - 76)
Channel Airways (ceased operations in 1972)
CityFlyer Express (1991 - 2002)
Court Line (ceased operations in 1974)
Daimler Airways (1922 - 24)
Dan-Air London (1953 - 92, to Caledonian Airways (second incarnation))
Debonair (1995 - 99)
Duo Airways (2003 - 04)
Euravia (became Britannia Airways)
Excalibur Airways (1992 - 96)
Flying Colours (1997 - 2000)
Flykeen Airways (1968 - 2005, to A2B Airways)
Gill Airways (1969 - 2001)
Go Fly (1998 - 2003, acquired by easyJet)
HC Airlines (1978 - 2002)
Highland Express Airways (1984 - 87)
Hillman's Airways (1931 - 35)
Imperial Airways (1924-1939)
Instone Airline (1921 - 24 and 1977 - 95)
Invicta International Airlines (1964 - 81)
Jersey European (became flybe)
JMC Air (renamed Thomas Cook Airlines in 2002)
KLM UK (1980 - 2003)
Laker Airways (1966 - 82)
Maersk UK (1983 - 2003)
Manx Airlines (1982 - 2002)
Northeast Airlines (1951 - 73)
Orion Airways (1978 - 89)
Prime Air (2001 - 02)
Princess Air (1989 - 91)
Red Coat Air Cargo (1977 - 82)
Sabre Airways (1994 - 2001, now Excel Airways)
Scimitar Airlines (1979 - 82)
Silver City (airline) (became British United Air Ferries 1963)
Spartan Airlines (1933 - 35)
Tradewinds Airways (1967 - 90)
United Airways (ceased operations 1935)
Virgin Sun
AB Airlines (ceased operations 1999)
air2000 (now First Choice Airways)
Air Anglia (precursor of AirUK, now part of KLM's Cityhopper division)
Air Bristol
Air Caledonian (2003 - 05)
Air Cordial (ceased operations 2004)
Air Europe (1979 - 91)
Airfreight Express (1999 - 2003)
Air Scandic (1997 - 2005)
AirUK
Airways International Cymru (1984 - 88)
Ambassador Airways (1992 - 94)
Amber Airways
Anglo Cargo (1983 -92)
Aquila Airways
Autair International (precursor of Court Line)
AV8 Air
Bookajet (2003 - 04, to Club 328)
British Airtours (former charter subsidiary of British Airways)
British Airways Ltd (1935 - 39)
BCAL - British Caledonian Airways (1970 - 88, acquired by British Airways)
British Cargo Airlines (1979 - 80)
British Continental Airways (ceased operations 1935)
British Eagle (ceased operations in 1968)
British European Airways (BEA) (1946 - 74, to British Airways)
British European (became flybe)
British Marine Air Navigation Co (1923 - 24)
BOAC - British Overseas Airways Corporation (1939 - 74, to British Airways)
British Regional Airlines (1997 - 2002)
British South American Airways (BSSA) (1946 - 49)
British United Air Ferries
British United Airways (1960 - 70, merged with Caledonian)
British World Airlines (1946 - 2001)
Brymon Airways (1972 - 2002)
Buzz (1999 - 2003, acquired by Ryanair)
Caledonian Airways (1961 - 70 and 1974 - 2000)
Cambrian Airways (1935 - 76)
Channel Airways (ceased operations in 1972)
CityFlyer Express (1991 - 2002)
Court Line (ceased operations in 1974)
Daimler Airways (1922 - 24)
Dan-Air London (1953 - 92, to Caledonian Airways (second incarnation))
Debonair (1995 - 99)
Duo Airways (2003 - 04)
Euravia (became Britannia Airways)
Excalibur Airways (1992 - 96)
Flying Colours (1997 - 2000)
Flykeen Airways (1968 - 2005, to A2B Airways)
Gill Airways (1969 - 2001)
Go Fly (1998 - 2003, acquired by easyJet)
HC Airlines (1978 - 2002)
Highland Express Airways (1984 - 87)
Hillman's Airways (1931 - 35)
Imperial Airways (1924-1939)
Instone Airline (1921 - 24 and 1977 - 95)
Invicta International Airlines (1964 - 81)
Jersey European (became flybe)
JMC Air (renamed Thomas Cook Airlines in 2002)
KLM UK (1980 - 2003)
Laker Airways (1966 - 82)
Maersk UK (1983 - 2003)
Manx Airlines (1982 - 2002)
Northeast Airlines (1951 - 73)
Orion Airways (1978 - 89)
Prime Air (2001 - 02)
Princess Air (1989 - 91)
Red Coat Air Cargo (1977 - 82)
Sabre Airways (1994 - 2001, now Excel Airways)
Scimitar Airlines (1979 - 82)
Silver City (airline) (became British United Air Ferries 1963)
Spartan Airlines (1933 - 35)
Tradewinds Airways (1967 - 90)
United Airways (ceased operations 1935)
Virgin Sun
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Not many of those went under in the last recession though.
I'm not arguing a point, in fact i fully agree we are heading in to a storm.
Just an observation from the above stats.
Phil
I'm not arguing a point, in fact i fully agree we are heading in to a storm.
Just an observation from the above stats.
Phil
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There are numerous uncomfortable situations and truths that one is faced with in life. This coming economic debacle is one of them. The previous poster mentioned the local town centre being somewhat busy both day and night, well considering the distortion of the festive period that perfectly understandable. The mere fact that the first big wave has yet to impact people lives I can understand why they're all out spending money with gay abandon. When the first hit is felt they'll batten down the hatches faster than the villagers clearing the street before gunfight from an old western, it'll literally happen overnight. Compound that with the usual Christmas and New Year blues and you've got a strong force pushing things downwards. Then as the first effects of this economic stranglehold take place certain industries will begin to wobble and of course leisure pursuits will be hard hit. As redundancies take shape within streets, neighbourhoods, amongst friends and within families the fear will set in very quickly.
Now don't get me wrong I don't wish to dispense all this doom and gloom, far from it but we have to face reality and accept it hurts. I for one have still got my IR conversion to do and what timing I'm practically screwed to say the least and have actively begun to aim for something else to bring in the money during these lean economic times. Even with a Type Rating it's pretty unchanged in terms of chances and with some line training it's still not better
What I'm saying is that I have taken aviation from the Vanguard to something that's now supplemented with another plan and no doubt over time it'll take over aviation as my source of income and livelihood. All hopes dashed rather than 'DASH-8', get it 
Laughing at the pain guess it helps. Anyway back to the subject matter at hand ....
The BBC has become more of a government mouth piece now than ever before and by doing so is undertaking a great dis-service to the British people. The BBC is in denial about the impending economic situation and treats it as if it's surreal or happening elsewhere, not so. People are being given a false sense of security and thus somewhat departed from reality.
The likes of Evan Davis and other cuddly commentators are relaying a =n inconvience on par with the weather man forecasting a week of cold and blustery weather where at worst your fence might fall down, inconvience. This is far from the truth, every fews months the BBC says "well back in 2006" , "2007", "March of this year" and "October of that year we all thought" or were "led to believe", no that's just the BBC getting their optimistic sums wrong and then attempting to put the blame on the sly politician. It's all there to see yet the BBC loves to blame others when their optimistic almost inpractical view doesn't manifest into reality. Even some delluded fool from the Guardian appearing on newsnight claimed that the economic downturn in 2008 would have nothing more than a slight effect. Shocking denial or just an inabilisty to address the gravity of the impending situation, I'd think both.
These are difficult times and lot of people will be loosing their jobs across the country in all industrial sectors. Of course some more so than others and some regions more so than others. Talking to my cousing at a party only last night (top bod at Ernst & Young) says that the fear is it could last right through 2008, 2009, 2010 with recovery starting only then
Who knows what shape we'll be in when the recovery does come about, with other players in the global market we could find ourselves economically demoted as the pecking order is redefined. These aren't the good old days when we could pull over and cool off before setting out again. These days of fierce competition from every corner of the world we are pulling over when we're already laghing behind God only knows how many laps behind we'll be when we finally emerge again. People talk about economic cycles but don't be so naive as to think that there isn't such a thing as political cycle.... the leftists come into power might mean well but utlimately end up ruinging economies and then we are faced with a difficult period where someone has to come into power and clean up, which isn't comfortable neither.
Now don't get me wrong I don't wish to dispense all this doom and gloom, far from it but we have to face reality and accept it hurts. I for one have still got my IR conversion to do and what timing I'm practically screwed to say the least and have actively begun to aim for something else to bring in the money during these lean economic times. Even with a Type Rating it's pretty unchanged in terms of chances and with some line training it's still not better
What I'm saying is that I have taken aviation from the Vanguard to something that's now supplemented with another plan and no doubt over time it'll take over aviation as my source of income and livelihood. All hopes dashed rather than 'DASH-8', get it Laughing at the pain guess it helps. Anyway back to the subject matter at hand ....The BBC has become more of a government mouth piece now than ever before and by doing so is undertaking a great dis-service to the British people. The BBC is in denial about the impending economic situation and treats it as if it's surreal or happening elsewhere, not so. People are being given a false sense of security and thus somewhat departed from reality.
The likes of Evan Davis and other cuddly commentators are relaying a =n inconvience on par with the weather man forecasting a week of cold and blustery weather where at worst your fence might fall down, inconvience. This is far from the truth, every fews months the BBC says "well back in 2006" , "2007", "March of this year" and "October of that year we all thought" or were "led to believe", no that's just the BBC getting their optimistic sums wrong and then attempting to put the blame on the sly politician. It's all there to see yet the BBC loves to blame others when their optimistic almost inpractical view doesn't manifest into reality. Even some delluded fool from the Guardian appearing on newsnight claimed that the economic downturn in 2008 would have nothing more than a slight effect. Shocking denial or just an inabilisty to address the gravity of the impending situation, I'd think both.
These are difficult times and lot of people will be loosing their jobs across the country in all industrial sectors. Of course some more so than others and some regions more so than others. Talking to my cousing at a party only last night (top bod at Ernst & Young) says that the fear is it could last right through 2008, 2009, 2010 with recovery starting only then
Who knows what shape we'll be in when the recovery does come about, with other players in the global market we could find ourselves economically demoted as the pecking order is redefined. These aren't the good old days when we could pull over and cool off before setting out again. These days of fierce competition from every corner of the world we are pulling over when we're already laghing behind God only knows how many laps behind we'll be when we finally emerge again. People talk about economic cycles but don't be so naive as to think that there isn't such a thing as political cycle.... the leftists come into power might mean well but utlimately end up ruinging economies and then we are faced with a difficult period where someone has to come into power and clean up, which isn't comfortable neither.
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Oil price through $100 dollars last night in the US for the first time in decades.... GULP! Guess the fuel surcharge on the old club 152 will be going up again!
Last edited by Grass strip basher; 3rd Jan 2008 at 13:42.
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Boogie:
Look, I'm not in denial and believe that there may be trouble ahead, I am also sceptical about media input. However, just to play devils advocate for a moment, is it possible that these "experts" may just know a little more then your average PPRune poster?. If so perhaps we should listen up and pay attention.
Anyway, for every one "were all fu
ed" qoute there is always the counter "Ooooh it will be a little rocky, but were ok".
In the meantime my parther and I have decided to sell our apartment pop the dosh in the bank and rent for the time being. Better this then potentialy seeing 40% wiped off the value. Of course, as always, the counter argument is that at the end of 2003 quite a few people did this and then couldn't get back on the ladder because prices sky rocketed.
As for taking the aviation plunge thank goodness I have a plan B! Wouldn't want to be making the jump on a wing and a prayer at the moment. Just in case it does all go very very pete tong.
So who wants to predict when the first major (the sort of thing that makes Jo Public wake up and smell the coffee) will happen? Are we talking this quarter?
MFWF
Even some delluded fool from the Guardian appearing on newsnight claimed that the economic downturn in 2008 would have nothing more than a slight effect. Shocking denial or just an inabilisty to address the gravity of the impending situation, I'd think both.
Look, I'm not in denial and believe that there may be trouble ahead, I am also sceptical about media input. However, just to play devils advocate for a moment, is it possible that these "experts" may just know a little more then your average PPRune poster?. If so perhaps we should listen up and pay attention.
Anyway, for every one "were all fu
ed" qoute there is always the counter "Ooooh it will be a little rocky, but were ok".In the meantime my parther and I have decided to sell our apartment pop the dosh in the bank and rent for the time being. Better this then potentialy seeing 40% wiped off the value. Of course, as always, the counter argument is that at the end of 2003 quite a few people did this and then couldn't get back on the ladder because prices sky rocketed.
As for taking the aviation plunge thank goodness I have a plan B! Wouldn't want to be making the jump on a wing and a prayer at the moment. Just in case it does all go very very pete tong.
So who wants to predict when the first major (the sort of thing that makes Jo Public wake up and smell the coffee) will happen? Are we talking this quarter?
MFWF
Bank runs are a distinct possibility. The ECB dropped 350 Billion euro into the market at more than half a point below base rate just to get the banks through year end. Sterling will be in freefall for most of 2008. Inflation is set to reach 4% in the UK and then you can forget rate cuts. 2.2 million mortgages in the UK finish their discount period this year and will refinance on much stricter terms, in many SVR of 7.2% will be the pill to swallow.
Dixons, PC World, Dolcis, Clarks, Carpetright, SCS Sofas have all put out profit warnings and there is plenty more to come from a dismal Christmas trading period. Britons are tightening their belts and the 18yr economic cycle tells us that this 2008 is 1990 all over again.
Houses have only ever been 7 times earnings 3 times since WW2. Each and every time they went above this they crashed back to below 4 times earnings.
Spains second largest housebuilder had its shares removed from the stock market yesterday having lost 42% of its value on fears of a massive house price crash and recession in Spain.
Now how many households in the UK have the wife working in a shoe shop, a 2 yr discount mortgage and a small holiday property in Spain? Cause they ain't going to enjoy 2008.
Buckle up,
WWW
Dixons, PC World, Dolcis, Clarks, Carpetright, SCS Sofas have all put out profit warnings and there is plenty more to come from a dismal Christmas trading period. Britons are tightening their belts and the 18yr economic cycle tells us that this 2008 is 1990 all over again.
Houses have only ever been 7 times earnings 3 times since WW2. Each and every time they went above this they crashed back to below 4 times earnings.
Spains second largest housebuilder had its shares removed from the stock market yesterday having lost 42% of its value on fears of a massive house price crash and recession in Spain.
Now how many households in the UK have the wife working in a shoe shop, a 2 yr discount mortgage and a small holiday property in Spain? Cause they ain't going to enjoy 2008.
Buckle up,
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Preston, Lancs
Age: 40
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If the Government and Money Experts can convince enough people that a recession is about to happen then all the people who will be hit the hardest will tighten their budgets in preparation. This will surely contribute to economic downturn, which in turn will lead to a recession.
Could this not be a governmental tactic in order to keep the masses at the lower end of the economic ladder?
Could this not be a governmental tactic in order to keep the masses at the lower end of the economic ladder?
On the contrary, all government figures and 90% of money commentators do the opposite and try to persuade that nothing is wrong, its nearly over and things are looking better than ever. That is because one is trying to sell you a vote and the other wants your money.
Its when people start seeing beyond both that it gets interesting.
3 housing booms since WW2 saw house prices go above 7 times earnings. Each time there was a bust. Today we stand at 9 times earnings......
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Its when people start seeing beyond both that it gets interesting.
3 housing booms since WW2 saw house prices go above 7 times earnings. Each time there was a bust. Today we stand at 9 times earnings......
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: between a rock and a hard place
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Using a downturn to our advantage?
Assuming a recession is on the way, let us utilise the brain power of the PPRuner.....
Although a teenager during the last recession I am sure that some people utilised the situation to their advantage and made some money!
There must be a way of benefiting from a recession to ones economic advantage. If so, does anybody have some sensible, tried and tested or theoretical methods of doing so.....
Although a teenager during the last recession I am sure that some people utilised the situation to their advantage and made some money!
There must be a way of benefiting from a recession to ones economic advantage. If so, does anybody have some sensible, tried and tested or theoretical methods of doing so.....
Train as a bailiff is the obvious route.
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