A good year for Modular Trainee Employment?
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
I qualified in the first half of the year and am currently doing my initial type rating course. I got the interview through a recommendation from my FTO. Most of the others on my IR course have started or will be shortly be starting their first airline jobs.
So, based on my experience, it has been a good year for some modulars at least. Keep on sending those C.V.s out, sooner or later they will surface on someone's desk.
sr
So, based on my experience, it has been a good year for some modulars at least. Keep on sending those C.V.s out, sooner or later they will surface on someone's desk.
sr
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550 hrs Modular, 12 months since mcc, got Jet job & 1 piston offers in the space of 3 weeks! 
Things are happening, not the only one , three other mates all 250-500 hr modular all got T/P & Jet jobs.
Keep sending those cv's, but networking also important, I targeted a handful and kept on at them till interviews happened. Also keep ME/IR current and stay flying, even if its a bit of sim. Good luck.
Things are happening, not the only one , three other mates all 250-500 hr modular all got T/P & Jet jobs.Keep sending those cv's, but networking also important, I targeted a handful and kept on at them till interviews happened. Also keep ME/IR current and stay flying, even if its a bit of sim. Good luck.
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Started the year after completing modular training in DEC 2005 with 205 hours TT & now have 550 hours TT with 345 hours logged on 737NG!
I managed to get through CTC ATP but there are jobs out there for modular people & quite a few friends that I trained with have jobs!
I managed to get through CTC ATP but there are jobs out there for modular people & quite a few friends that I trained with have jobs!
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To be honest I don't think its just about sending cv's. Networking seems to be the key from what I have seen and if you know somebody in the airlines already or work for an airline in a ground based role then my bet is you have a better chance!!
Just my 2p's worth.
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My Experience
Callsign Kilo,
I have been thinking of putting my experience on this site and Callsign Kilo your post has spurred me to actually do it!
So often you read on this site desperately miserable posts which make you wonder what an earth you’re doing, so maybe I can at least show some light at the end of what can be a very dark, worrying tunnel at times.
Firstly a bit about me, I am 32 married with a 5year old which certainly hasn’t made life easy being away from home at times. I left school at 16, have no A-levels or a degree. I spent 5 years in the Forces and then 6 years in Medical sales. I started my PPL at 29 although I had wanted to fly since I was 24 but funds and other commitments prevented this. I left full time employment in March of this year to finish off my commercial flying full time.
I chose Bristol Flying Centre, and can certainly recommend them to anyone trying to decide where to go.
The 3 months at Bristol were a roller coaster ride of highs, lows, even lower lows to feelings of total elation when you pass the IR and the CPL and walk out the doors for the last time, with your pass certificates to go home. Being married with a child made being away really hard at times but also motivated me to get it done as quickly as possible, which I think only added to the stress at times. I met many others in the same boat, and if you’re reading this as a married man or in a serious relationship you really do have to make some pretty big sacrifices for this career if you really want to do it, depending on your situation. If you’re young free and single it is definitely going to make life easier, but I wouldn’t change my situation as my wife has been a brick throughout this whole ordeal.
I then did the MCC with Jetlinx on a B757, it was great fun and in a way was a treat to myself for all the hard work, it in no way has helped me get a job doing it on a jet, and if you are on a tight budget by this point I really wouldn’t spend the extra. That in no way is meant to knock Jetlinx who provided a great and enjoyable course, it is just not essential to spend £3,500 to get a tick in the box.
So that brings me in a very long winded way to actually starting to answer Callsign Kilo’s question, as I now had everything I needed to send out my first and (only batch of CV’s) to the aviation world. I sent out around 80 to everybody I could and waited! Started getting responses about a week later with a fairly steady flow after that of one every other day, all saying the same thing, sorry but we have no vacancies blah blah….. In other words you have 203hrs go away.
This was a depressing time, one where I really did start to think what the hell have I done here, I have a licence that is not worth the paper it is written on! Oh I forgot to mention earlier that we sold our house at the beginning of the year to move into a rented property to fund this little adventure, so I really was getting worried.
But slowly I began to gather names, I then got a response from Jet2 saying my application was being processed so not a go away which was a morale booster. It was also July so a really bad time to be looking as well.
I new before I started this that networking would be the key to success, the phrase “It’s who you know not what you know “really does apply in Aviation. I was lucky enough to know a guy at Ryanair, so after thinking about the implications of funding the type rating etc…. asked him to get my CV on the right desk. He kindly did that and in August I got the first break of an assessment at the end of September. I remember thinking when I was doing my IR and CPL that if things got really bad I could apply to Ryanair or even lower myself to a Turbo Prop, how naïve and arrogant of me!! Because less than 2 weeks after finishing my MCC I would have given my right arm for a job on a TP, and if I had not known anyone at Ryanair I would not have got an assessment, down to earth with a bump for me that’s for sure, as the reality set in.
Meanwhile I managed to organise some safety pilot work on a King Air, which really was a life saver, as I was flying, for free admittedly, but for short term experience in a proper aircraft it was invaluable. I was also very fortunate to be flying with a guy who let me fly when we had no one on board, so first tip, if you can do some safety pilot work, DO IT it is great fun and even better on your CV. It shows you have not sat around doing nothing but have got up off your backside. I totally understand though that this cannot be sustained long term, but anything is better than nothing.
I did the assessment with Ryanair and passed. It was a hard assessment and required a lot of preparation for me anyway. I am due to start in December. I paid to go in a sim, but I met guys on the day who had not, who did not know the profile, who had not flown for 3 months. Tip 2 If you get a chance, don’t worry about spending £400 – 500 on a sim, think how gutted you will be if you fail, £500 will have been well spent. Getting in a jet and flying accurately requires practice, and unless you have experience or are extremely talented you will fail.
My second break came from sending an email to Flyglobespan back in July when I first finished. The Captain was kind enough to respond to my email which again is quite rare, although it was sorry we have no vacancies I sent one back asking some advice, which again he responded to. I saved his details and the email. Then 4 months later I sent him another email, stating I had emailed before, that I had passed the Ryanair assessment etc….. And that I continued to at other companies, how did the waters lie now? Whether it was luck, the fact we had emailed before, or it just landed in his inbox at the right time, he emailed me back with an offer of an interview. I don’t know anyone in the company, so it felt good to have got it totally off my own back.
In the end however I cancelled the interview as I had a firm start with Ryanair, which FGS were unable to match even if you were successful, you get placed into a holdpool. It was also a SSTR like Ryanair so I would have been foolish to accept it over Ryanair. I rang and spoke to the captain at FGS and explained my situation who agreed I should go to Ryanair, but to call him in 9 months time, when I have some experience, another contact one day, who knows.
My third break came from knowing a Capt with Bmi Baby, through my Mother. Something my Mother forgot to mention until I was close to slitting my wrists in August, when she suddenly announced, oh I wonder if it is worth calling …… her sister is married to a pilot. I said it might be a good idea, why haven’t you mentioned it before!!!!!
Sorry I am turning this into an essay here, I contacted him, we talked (he decided whether I sounded like a tw*t and whether he was willing to recommend me to his Chief Pilot, so I sent him my CV. He forwarded it for me and the rest was really up to me. I emailed the Chief Pilot and discovered he was going to attend the Balpa Conference in September, so off I went. I ended up queuing 2hrs 15mins to meet him to have a 10 min chat. But it was worth it and there were many others who did the same that day. There were no promises made, even though he had my CV, and had been recommended. Worth pointing out that he was impressed I had done the safety pilot work, I had managed to accrue 40hrs on the King Air, and although they don’t count to your total time it is all experience. Anyway I never let up, I emailed that night thanking him for his time, I then emailed again 3 weeks later asking for news and any update. Each time I waited for a response; which I got eventually, but days later making the wait agonising for any news. After about 5 or 6 emails, 2 phone calls, he finally agreed to see me for an interview.
Now I persevered to get that interview but at times sending these emails and making phone calls was really awkward. I was really worried I was going to P*ss him off and blow it!! No advice with that it’s a judgement call I’m afraid with how far you should push. Although I had got to a point where I had nothing to lose with my start with Ryanair looming ever closer.
I had the interview last Friday and got the call and conformation this week that I had been successful. I was practically shaking when I got off the phone, suddenly all the heartache and frustration was worth it. The best feeling in the world. I was pleased when I passed Ryanair, but the edge was taken off it slightly with what it was going to cost us, but I would have done it, and felt fortunate to have it and in a strange way it is partly responsible for pushing the guy at Bmi baby to see me before I started. I start next Feb, and the real work and learning curve will start.
So that is my story, I feel very very fortunate, and I am at the start of my career and in no way do I pretend to be an expert with recruitment. I am sure others have done all of the above and have not had their lucky break yet, but hopefully it will happen soon. It is not easy and it is a hard slog. But I think it is important to share the good news as well as the bad (and there is plenty of the latter on this site at times).
Never give up, and don’t be afraid to chase people or ring people, they’re after all only human. If you can get recommended by someone fantastic, but don’t think that will be enough on its own, follow it up, make yourself standout. Show you’re hungry for it and want it more than the next person. There is no shortage of low houred pilots with 200hrs looking for a job, so you have to make yourself standout. I apologise for the length of this, I got slightly carried away!! I hope this has not come across as being arrogant to others waiting for their first break.
Be lucky
I have been thinking of putting my experience on this site and Callsign Kilo your post has spurred me to actually do it!
So often you read on this site desperately miserable posts which make you wonder what an earth you’re doing, so maybe I can at least show some light at the end of what can be a very dark, worrying tunnel at times.
Firstly a bit about me, I am 32 married with a 5year old which certainly hasn’t made life easy being away from home at times. I left school at 16, have no A-levels or a degree. I spent 5 years in the Forces and then 6 years in Medical sales. I started my PPL at 29 although I had wanted to fly since I was 24 but funds and other commitments prevented this. I left full time employment in March of this year to finish off my commercial flying full time.
I chose Bristol Flying Centre, and can certainly recommend them to anyone trying to decide where to go.
The 3 months at Bristol were a roller coaster ride of highs, lows, even lower lows to feelings of total elation when you pass the IR and the CPL and walk out the doors for the last time, with your pass certificates to go home. Being married with a child made being away really hard at times but also motivated me to get it done as quickly as possible, which I think only added to the stress at times. I met many others in the same boat, and if you’re reading this as a married man or in a serious relationship you really do have to make some pretty big sacrifices for this career if you really want to do it, depending on your situation. If you’re young free and single it is definitely going to make life easier, but I wouldn’t change my situation as my wife has been a brick throughout this whole ordeal.
I then did the MCC with Jetlinx on a B757, it was great fun and in a way was a treat to myself for all the hard work, it in no way has helped me get a job doing it on a jet, and if you are on a tight budget by this point I really wouldn’t spend the extra. That in no way is meant to knock Jetlinx who provided a great and enjoyable course, it is just not essential to spend £3,500 to get a tick in the box.
So that brings me in a very long winded way to actually starting to answer Callsign Kilo’s question, as I now had everything I needed to send out my first and (only batch of CV’s) to the aviation world. I sent out around 80 to everybody I could and waited! Started getting responses about a week later with a fairly steady flow after that of one every other day, all saying the same thing, sorry but we have no vacancies blah blah….. In other words you have 203hrs go away.
This was a depressing time, one where I really did start to think what the hell have I done here, I have a licence that is not worth the paper it is written on! Oh I forgot to mention earlier that we sold our house at the beginning of the year to move into a rented property to fund this little adventure, so I really was getting worried.
But slowly I began to gather names, I then got a response from Jet2 saying my application was being processed so not a go away which was a morale booster. It was also July so a really bad time to be looking as well.
I new before I started this that networking would be the key to success, the phrase “It’s who you know not what you know “really does apply in Aviation. I was lucky enough to know a guy at Ryanair, so after thinking about the implications of funding the type rating etc…. asked him to get my CV on the right desk. He kindly did that and in August I got the first break of an assessment at the end of September. I remember thinking when I was doing my IR and CPL that if things got really bad I could apply to Ryanair or even lower myself to a Turbo Prop, how naïve and arrogant of me!! Because less than 2 weeks after finishing my MCC I would have given my right arm for a job on a TP, and if I had not known anyone at Ryanair I would not have got an assessment, down to earth with a bump for me that’s for sure, as the reality set in.
Meanwhile I managed to organise some safety pilot work on a King Air, which really was a life saver, as I was flying, for free admittedly, but for short term experience in a proper aircraft it was invaluable. I was also very fortunate to be flying with a guy who let me fly when we had no one on board, so first tip, if you can do some safety pilot work, DO IT it is great fun and even better on your CV. It shows you have not sat around doing nothing but have got up off your backside. I totally understand though that this cannot be sustained long term, but anything is better than nothing.
I did the assessment with Ryanair and passed. It was a hard assessment and required a lot of preparation for me anyway. I am due to start in December. I paid to go in a sim, but I met guys on the day who had not, who did not know the profile, who had not flown for 3 months. Tip 2 If you get a chance, don’t worry about spending £400 – 500 on a sim, think how gutted you will be if you fail, £500 will have been well spent. Getting in a jet and flying accurately requires practice, and unless you have experience or are extremely talented you will fail.
My second break came from sending an email to Flyglobespan back in July when I first finished. The Captain was kind enough to respond to my email which again is quite rare, although it was sorry we have no vacancies I sent one back asking some advice, which again he responded to. I saved his details and the email. Then 4 months later I sent him another email, stating I had emailed before, that I had passed the Ryanair assessment etc….. And that I continued to at other companies, how did the waters lie now? Whether it was luck, the fact we had emailed before, or it just landed in his inbox at the right time, he emailed me back with an offer of an interview. I don’t know anyone in the company, so it felt good to have got it totally off my own back.
In the end however I cancelled the interview as I had a firm start with Ryanair, which FGS were unable to match even if you were successful, you get placed into a holdpool. It was also a SSTR like Ryanair so I would have been foolish to accept it over Ryanair. I rang and spoke to the captain at FGS and explained my situation who agreed I should go to Ryanair, but to call him in 9 months time, when I have some experience, another contact one day, who knows.
My third break came from knowing a Capt with Bmi Baby, through my Mother. Something my Mother forgot to mention until I was close to slitting my wrists in August, when she suddenly announced, oh I wonder if it is worth calling …… her sister is married to a pilot. I said it might be a good idea, why haven’t you mentioned it before!!!!!
Sorry I am turning this into an essay here, I contacted him, we talked (he decided whether I sounded like a tw*t and whether he was willing to recommend me to his Chief Pilot, so I sent him my CV. He forwarded it for me and the rest was really up to me. I emailed the Chief Pilot and discovered he was going to attend the Balpa Conference in September, so off I went. I ended up queuing 2hrs 15mins to meet him to have a 10 min chat. But it was worth it and there were many others who did the same that day. There were no promises made, even though he had my CV, and had been recommended. Worth pointing out that he was impressed I had done the safety pilot work, I had managed to accrue 40hrs on the King Air, and although they don’t count to your total time it is all experience. Anyway I never let up, I emailed that night thanking him for his time, I then emailed again 3 weeks later asking for news and any update. Each time I waited for a response; which I got eventually, but days later making the wait agonising for any news. After about 5 or 6 emails, 2 phone calls, he finally agreed to see me for an interview.
Now I persevered to get that interview but at times sending these emails and making phone calls was really awkward. I was really worried I was going to P*ss him off and blow it!! No advice with that it’s a judgement call I’m afraid with how far you should push. Although I had got to a point where I had nothing to lose with my start with Ryanair looming ever closer.
I had the interview last Friday and got the call and conformation this week that I had been successful. I was practically shaking when I got off the phone, suddenly all the heartache and frustration was worth it. The best feeling in the world. I was pleased when I passed Ryanair, but the edge was taken off it slightly with what it was going to cost us, but I would have done it, and felt fortunate to have it and in a strange way it is partly responsible for pushing the guy at Bmi baby to see me before I started. I start next Feb, and the real work and learning curve will start.
So that is my story, I feel very very fortunate, and I am at the start of my career and in no way do I pretend to be an expert with recruitment. I am sure others have done all of the above and have not had their lucky break yet, but hopefully it will happen soon. It is not easy and it is a hard slog. But I think it is important to share the good news as well as the bad (and there is plenty of the latter on this site at times).
Never give up, and don’t be afraid to chase people or ring people, they’re after all only human. If you can get recommended by someone fantastic, but don’t think that will be enough on its own, follow it up, make yourself standout. Show you’re hungry for it and want it more than the next person. There is no shortage of low houred pilots with 200hrs looking for a job, so you have to make yourself standout. I apologise for the length of this, I got slightly carried away!! I hope this has not come across as being arrogant to others waiting for their first break.
Be lucky
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dan98, I am happy for you, but most of you still have to pay for a job.
what about all these chaps who have a license and no money to pay for a type rating?
I recently got 2 calls from schools who asked me to apply with them because I can finance a type rating .
one on jet and one on turboprop.
this market is only good for people with deep pockets and will not last long!.
what about all these chaps who have a license and no money to pay for a type rating?
I recently got 2 calls from schools who asked me to apply with them because I can finance a type rating .
one on jet and one on turboprop.
this market is only good for people with deep pockets and will not last long!.
Last edited by dartagnan; 25th Nov 2006 at 19:58.
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Thats the way!
Dan 98,
Congrats on your recent employment. I don't by any means think you have written a boring essay, but an extremely informative example of what it takes to get that 1st job after modular training.
My situation was similar. However, foolishly hedged my bets on one airline(thank god it paid off) and after probaly p*ssing the ops guys off no end got the interview I needed. The rest is history, 500hrs TP 1000 TT and growing.
Listen carefully to Dan 98, invaluble information!
Cheers
DB
Congrats on your recent employment. I don't by any means think you have written a boring essay, but an extremely informative example of what it takes to get that 1st job after modular training.
My situation was similar. However, foolishly hedged my bets on one airline(thank god it paid off) and after probaly p*ssing the ops guys off no end got the interview I needed. The rest is history, 500hrs TP 1000 TT and growing.
Listen carefully to Dan 98, invaluble information!
Cheers
DB
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Well done Dan98
I thought your post was an excellent example of showing that if we want something badly enough, it will eventually come our way - especially if we are prepared to go out and get it
It certainly shows how networking helps leaps and bounds - I was always told, "It's not what you know, it's who you know"
Best of luck with it all!
I thought your post was an excellent example of showing that if we want something badly enough, it will eventually come our way - especially if we are prepared to go out and get it
It certainly shows how networking helps leaps and bounds - I was always told, "It's not what you know, it's who you know"
Best of luck with it all!
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Out of 23 of us at my school that I am still in contact with. Only two of the modular guys have got jobs with an airline. All the integrated bar 2 of them have positions. That includes 3 of them that could not fly for toffee and took 3 attempts at the IR. Most were recommended and the others bought TR through airline schemes etc. The majority of the modular guys are instructing (its a shame because they started at the same time as integrated, had all the same instructors/courses etc but somehow the industry views them differently which i cannot understand!).
Jinkster, who is your 737 job with? (PM me)
Jinkster, who is your 737 job with? (PM me)
Last edited by mightymouse111; 24th Nov 2006 at 15:11.
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Just a small point on CTC, its not a buy-a-rating scheme unlike many other companies. On top of the CPL/IR it's an assessed MCC and advanced handling course (cumulatively known as the AQC) which costs £6000 (£2000 back on completion of line check). So effectively its £4k on top of basic training which gives you 40 hours in a jet sim. On passing this the type rating, 6 months line training/flying and a monthly allowance are all covered by the airline.
This is the route I took, which for the vast majority of those coming through CTC leads to a permanent job with the sponsoring airline. On my course the majority were modular and all 16 of us passed and went on to type training. That's what I like about CTC, they don't care what training you did or where, they just look at the person and if they think you are of the right calibre, you're in, regardless of training background.
PW
This is the route I took, which for the vast majority of those coming through CTC leads to a permanent job with the sponsoring airline. On my course the majority were modular and all 16 of us passed and went on to type training. That's what I like about CTC, they don't care what training you did or where, they just look at the person and if they think you are of the right calibre, you're in, regardless of training background.
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The Airline's do speak to each other regarding suitable applicants, and in some cases if you look desperate for a 'position' that could rule out your chances?
Although it gives you a good sense of acquiring a position from your own personal view, The Airlines not only look for the key skills & experience but for the people skills to accompany it.
I have known Instructors who have less conversation than a 'Monkey' and that's normally the better off ones!!
As for the time of year, Obviously most Airlines make a 'loss' in the winter months, so Recruitment & Training is limited to the minimum.
As for pilot shortage, There is a shortage - not an alarming one but a worry for the Airlines in the coming 5 years ahead.
With so many 'Ex Mill' pilots using their 'Gorm' and leaving the MOD? or whatever, this is filling up the low cost Airlines requirements.
I have a friend who has just last month acquired a position with a 'lo cost' op, after many years of instructing and training all of his own making. Luckily he acquired the finance to do it!! Thats part of the Battle!!
I think some of these Training operators Cabair, Oxford, Stapleton etc Push the Boat out and 'fasttrack' the student onto a position, Obviously this is in the interest of both parties, But they don't reliase that a CPL is still alot simplier than an ATPL, Yes you maybe an excellent CPL student/ Instructor but it doesn't make you 'compelled' to fly Airliners.
I attended Cabair years ago, But I found it to be 'over the top' and nothing remotely beneficial in getting a position, I still think they 'already' had people for the jobs before they tested 250 of us?
My view was that it was just a 'money making regime' = £55 x 250?
I still don't think some potential ATPL students take into consideration the 'responsibility' of flying an Airliner, The legal part of the flying, and the implications if things go wrong, not only from the Airline but from the public also, There has being cases of Custodial sentences passed in other countries.
I wish everyone the Best with all their Training and Future plans.
Regards.
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Another strange and ill-informed post by BAI. 
What on earth is a 'gorm'? As an ex-RAF pilot, I have never heard this expression. As for filling the low-cost airlines' requirements, easyJet require 450 pilots next year. Ryanair probably slightly more. That's the best part of 1000 pilots for those two airlines alone. The RAF has a total of less than 3000 pilots, including many who are no longer active in flying; the RN and Army have rather fewer. The total outflow of Qualified Service Pilots (QSPs) is around 150-200 annually. Many leave flying altogether, many more do not join the airline rat-race. The remainder do not currently make a significant dent in the number of airline jobs available.
Much of the rest of your post shows a similarly loose grip on reality, so I can only advise wannabes to ignore you.
Scroggs
With so many 'Ex Mill' pilots using their 'Gorm' and leaving the MOD? or whatever, this is filling up the low cost Airlines requirements.
Much of the rest of your post shows a similarly loose grip on reality, so I can only advise wannabes to ignore you.
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As for the time of year, Obviously most Airlines make a 'loss' in the winter months, so Recruitment & Training is limited to the minimum.
How come many airlines are recruiting at the moment?
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Dude
How come many airlines are recruiting at the moment?
Also in winter there will be spare capacity and some under utilised aircraft which can be used by the newbies to do their mandatory circuits and landings.
So all in all the quiet times in an airline operation are the busy times in recruitment and training, getting the guys ready for action when the busy summer season starts, as I said there is no point in them recruiting in the height of summer unless in emergencies and usually for direct entry captains.
Makes sense really.