Type of training, performance and jobs prospects
 

When I started my flight training a couple of years ago, most people I talked to recommended me taking an integrated ATP course. "It costs a bit more, but its well worth it when the airlines starts requiting again" was the common advice I was told. And offcourse, as today, people at that time thought the market would start booming around the next corner. Just a few months more the market will start soaring blablabla. But what I emphasised most at that time doesnt seem to matter any more, now when its time for applying.
Do an integrated course, get firstpass on all flight checks and theory exams, get Atpl score above 95%, is just bull****, the airlines doesnt really care at all. I did all this, but in todays market with 250TT including sim and no t/r one is completely lost. And im not just aiming at the airlines, actually most of the companies receiving my applications have been smaller airtaxi and cargooperators. I would love to fly a P31, pay my bills and have just enough money left for a bag of peanuts and some beers. Im really happy with both the theoretical and practical part of the training I received, but when companies just ask for hrs and ratings, well its not alot one can do about it..
If I had to undergo flighttraining again, I would go for the cheapest alternative where I could get a bunch of hours, because noone seem to care where I`m trained anyway. This is probably old news for most of you, but Im just very impressed, how what seems to be the most important factor for people both before and under training, in real live after, is worth nothing.
And yes, my native langauge is not english, sorry for eventual grammatical errors, misspellings or just funny new words.

Single pilot public transport ops needs at least 700 hours total time and at least 50 hours p1 multi (insurance and CAA requirement I believe), so with 220 hours you are not going to be able to get a job doing air taxi work on a PA31.

PA31 Job with 250hrs!! Hell in OZ you cant even get a single engine piston job for that.

Attitude
 

Wertzy,

I think you will find people more willing to help others who are willing to help themselves.

Therefore, the first thing you need to do is CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. Then have a plan. In an effort to help you, here is a list of some proven practical ways to build your flight time.


Become An Instructor
One of the easiest ways and the quickest to build time is to become an instructor. That time is all loggable, and you will learn something at the same time.

Get Your MEI And Fly Right Seat
You can fly right seat and log it as instruction given.

Fly As A Safety Pilot
Many IFR students need to build time under the hood. Offer to be a safety pilot in turn for a little flight time. If you are an instructor, offer to fly that seat for free.

Find A Friend Who Owns An Airplane.
Don't abuse this friendship

Offer To Help With Annuals
A lot of the cost in an annual is the time it takes to open up the airplane. Offer to help with opening and closing the airplane in turn for some flight time. This builds friendships.

Go Through The Hangers To Find Out Who Is Not Flying
Many times you can go through hangers and find airplanes that don't fly, only to find out that the owner doesn't want to fly alone and has trouble finding others to go along. Offer to ride along. This may lead to some PIC time.

Tow Banners
Banner towing can be a lot of fun, and is a great way to build time.

Networking
Throughout your life you will find out that people get jobs because of who they know. Build a good network of people who can help you in your career. Make friends and have a good time.

Flight Cost
Split flight cost with another instructor to build flight time.

Establish A Breakfast Trip
Once a week at your local airport, gather as many pilots with airplanes as you can and offer to ride along .

Work For Someone Who Owns An Airplane.

Practice Approaches
There are many IFR students who need safety pilots who will let you fly an approach or two for helping them out.

Find VFR Pilots
Find VFR pilots that own their own planes and offer to fly trips with them to show them what IFR flying is about.

Currency
IFR pilots need to keep current. Offer to fly with them to help keep them current.

Wash Airplanes
Trade washing an airplane for flight time.

Corporations
Many corporations fly single pilot operations. Ask if you can ride along in exchange for doing some cleaning/help with flight planning etc, use your initiative. Who knows, later down the road they may offer you something.

Buy some time
If you have a windfall or can get a wealthy relative to loan you some.

Don't give up, but it starts with YOU.

Contact skydiving clubs if you want to logg many hours.
The only thing though, that seem to count these days, is whether you have the right typerating or not. Hours are not that important anymore.

Wertzy,

You seem to have hit the nail on the head. Spoke to a poor sod the other day who done an integrated course with Oxford just before the APP come out. He spent £65k doing that, looked around for jobs, no luck so went on to do a FI rating. Another £6k. Found a job as an FI earning smarties and now is applying for a TRSS with a low cost carrier (another £20k !!!). So in total he's going to be spending £91k to get his first Airline job.

Just for comparision a PPL in the states costs around £3,500, hour building up to 150 also in the states (another £6.5k). That's £10k, come back to blighty to do the ATPL Theory/CPL/IR/ME/MCC, including all fees your looking at around £25k + accomodation. £35k you would've spent and you'd be in pretty much the same boat.

Wertzy,

That is exactly what I concluded in the late 90's. Yes I visited the 3 main schools in the UK in those days, CSE Oxford, Bae Prestwick and cabair.

They all whipped me with their glossy brochures, and gave their speaches on which airlines they had a rosy relationship with.

Trying to crank the brain a little but I think the figures were approx as follows.

CSE oxford £45000, Bae £48000 (had a nice uniform though)
Cabair £36000

In the end you will have the same licence tucked away in your pocket.
I chose Cabair, had a great time and got through the course.

As I'm sure you are all aware, luck plays an important part. One of the regionals was looking for pilots and approached cabair. My cv was put forward and I got a direct entry onto a jet.

A friend of mine went to Oxford about the same time, passed the course, but unfortunately couldn't find a job. Apparently not many airlines were approaching CSE in those days. But now it seems that the tide has changed, a few airlines are approaching CSE. You just can't predict the future.

For me what it boiled down to was ££££££££££££'s and nothing else.

Good luck to you all.

modular training jobs
 

hi guys,

all ive ever wanted to do is become a pilot, intergrated is way too expensive so i guess its modular for me!

just wanted to know i know that the job prospects are meant to be the same an all but...if i dont get recommended by a flight school because im not intergrated, i have to get up off ma behind just as a intergrated student, but do many airlines recruit fresh off the "training" modular guys that have no type rating? but are willing to pay for it?

i dont understand. all thses airlines want 1000s of hours but theres hardly any airlines that are recruiting low houred pilots so that they can get the 1000s that larger airlines 'require'

sorry if im wrong, just want a bit of info

thanks oz

Ex-modular (all different schools for each bit) and got a job two years ago with FlyBE with only 400-odd hours. Now flying Airbus.

If Modular is right for you, then do it! It was right for me due to cost and been able to keep working etc etc...just finishing 2 years of turbo-prop flying and start a B757 course in Feb!

Well - I can count at least 10 people I know (including me) that qualified within the last 2 years that went modular and are now flying commercially, everything from King Airs to 737's.

Sometimes I think access to PPRUNE should be rationed - it seems to bring on depression in wannabes. :)

thanks guys,

yea i wanna work and do it at the same time, i have other little brothers and sisters and theres no way i could ask my folks for the money!

so there are airlines that really take on low houred guys....

could you give me some of your experiances if it aint too much trouble...

thanks oz

A good year for Modular Trainee Employment?
 

First of all, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not read into this as an attempt to rekindle the nauseous 'INTEGRATED vs. MODULAR' debate - IT'S NOT!!
The reason why I post this is to get a general feel of all the Modular peeps out there who secured a position in the RHS in 2006. I commence my CPL/IR in January via Stapleford Flight Centre in Essex, and keeping my fingers crossed, I hope to be complete by May/June 2007.
I have a few friends and know of a few fellow students who trained at my FTO between late 2005 & early 2006 who were lucky enough to pick up jobs quite soon after their training was complete, but I am very intrigued to hear of anyone else’s success stories from 2006.
Would love to know how you came about your job (and who it is with?) - Was it via a contact, a recommendation, through your MCC, the CTC scheme or a SSTR? -Whatever!
It's always great to hear of modular students doing well and supplies everyone in the same boat as myself with extra motivational ammunition to tackle the tasks ahead.
Thanks for your time and Good luck

It's very quiet at the moment, would others agree with me?

I know of 14 low hour modular bods who went to easyJet this year via CTC ATP scheme...

SinBin
Nothing doing for me but plenty of my modular friends have been interviewed/sim checked in the last few weeks for at least 8 airlines. I thought it had been quite busy out there. I've had a long hard look at my CV because so many others have had the call and I haven't!

Modular (not that it matters!) - 300hrs instructing to give 520hrs = 737 Job ;)

Congratulations Jinkster - great news, well done!

Loftustb - I know it must be hard, it's something I can't help getting anxious about myself, and I haven't even finished training yet - but I'm sure something is around the corner. Have you tried CTC yourself? Is it an option?

Cheers guys

I know of people that send 10 cv's every 2 months - NOT ENOUGH!!

If you want an airline job - fly as often as possible and send at least 100 CV's a month!!!

Good luck

Jinks,

Long time no speak...

Great News :ok: I am sure you will have a buzz up there.

Safe Flying.