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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 17th Nov 2009, 09:35
  #3341 (permalink)  
 
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Why would EZY re-new the CTC contract in December when our friends at ATP can provide as many fare paying F/O's as required?

ATP Boys and Girls would appear to provide a valuable source of income and there is not the slightest contractual hint of a commitment.

Let them pay and fly, until their credit runs out, offer them a few more hours for free beyond the 150hrs if required. Then 'reload' with the next eager cheque book waving kids. Fabulous!

Times are very hard and, if people are willing to pay to work, the accountants must be keen? ATP must be attractive to EZY.
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Old 17th Nov 2009, 11:22
  #3342 (permalink)  
 
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As I understand it, the EZY training department has said "never again" when it comes to ATP (Airline Training Partnership) "cadets".
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Old 17th Nov 2009, 18:05
  #3343 (permalink)  
 
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Do you really think the relative sensibilities of the 'trainers' is in the scan of the accountants?

ATP boy's and girls are willing to pay EZY to receive training. How ace is that!
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Old 17th Nov 2009, 19:50
  #3344 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed, I am sure that the vast majority of ATP 'punters' are every bit as capable as CTC Cadets.

If ATP became the future sole provider of F/O's to EZY then guess where all the 'would be' CTC Flexicrrew might be found.

The quality of applicant is the same but, importantly, the revenue stream is better.
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Old 17th Nov 2009, 21:56
  #3345 (permalink)  
 
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The type rated ATPs in the hold pool are not the same as those who have paid to fly - they are the guys who got through the CTC selection to do MCC and then went on to do the TR almost a year later - I don't think the deal is quite the same now for new ATPs going down that route as they have been told they will only be used if the hold pool empties - there is a difference between ATP and WingsATP.
The thought of rich kids paying to work on any scheme is pretty sickening to anyone out there (and there are a fair number) who has borrowed the money in good faith and ended up without a way to pay it back - I agree that we can expect to see a flood of cadets declaring bankruptcy in the next year - bit dire though isn't it!
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Old 17th Nov 2009, 22:32
  #3346 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure someone like WWW or one of the other current EZY people can confirm, but I am almost sure ATP (Airline Training Partnership) will not be used by easyJet again. Someone else who has the full story can fill in the details if they have the time and/or inclination.
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Old 18th Nov 2009, 16:29
  #3347 (permalink)  
 
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This summer no cadets were taken back on direct from ATP. A handful from last year were taken back on, on summer contracts but this was via the ctc flexi scheme so I doubt future recruitment will come from ATP. The lastest RUMOUR however is that ezy have signed a contract with Brookfield!! If this is true (and after our CEO's latest email which mentioned a requirement for a big increase in flexibility in crew) then it is a worrying development. I hope for all the CTC cadets this isn't true. Actually for all of us I hope this isn't true.

Last edited by one post only!; 18th Nov 2009 at 20:47.
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Old 18th Nov 2009, 21:59
  #3348 (permalink)  
 
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I have heard the same rumour about Brookfield - not sure how CTC will be able to convince someone who already owes 60k to borrow another 30k! That is mad!
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Old 18th Nov 2009, 22:16
  #3349 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not sure it would happen that way...

The way I see it is that easyJet want more flexibility with their crew contracts to keep the costs down. If it were to happen - it's only a rumour at this stage and it's only appeared today, so nobody really knows - I would envisage people coming out of CTC with a type rating and then going on to a Brookfield contract. At Ryanair, Ryanair do the type rating and charge 30k for it and then send the guy on to Brookfield for their contract. Hopefully, the CTC cadet would still have the TR included in the course price already paid and there would be no need for that expensive middle step.

I really, REALLY hope there is no truth in it.
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Old 18th Nov 2009, 22:32
  #3350 (permalink)  
 
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That sounds horrible but that would make sense. Why would EZY carry on paying for cadets where Ryanair gets money from hiring them.
For those thinking of CTC, please don't get yoursel involved now, wait at least 6 months simply to see what happens to those currently in the holding pool.
If now sounds like a good time to start a training, I would'nt rush into CTC until I see if cadets have to pay for their TR.
My 2 cents? I am convinced Brookfield (or any similar kind of bullst ) will be the normal way into the industry.
The latest email from the management couldn't be clearer. The future looks bright on the long term () but the down side is that cadets will have to contribute through their TR.... I personnaly read : BRING US ANOTHER 30K.

Zk-pontius, some people are simply desperate about flying a jet. I personnaly think that if cadets are to pay for their TR, CTC will provide them with a funding solution (such as the old unsecured HSBC) as it is in their own interest to get as many cadets as possible online.

Funding is a secondary problem, the main one being that the industry is turning mad. A pilot shouldn't pay for a TR.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 05:57
  #3351 (permalink)  
 
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For those thinking of CTC, please don't get yoursel involved now, wait at least 6 months simply to see what happens to those currently in the holding pool.
As I have said a hundred times on this thread. Listen to it and do it. Ever thought 'if only I knew then what I know now'?

Why would EZY carry on paying for cadets where Ryanair gets money from hiring them.
Exactly and why do you think I go on about the Ryanair scheme? This is the thing about airborne parasites, they are highly contageous.

If this is true I'd like to say the scheme is finished - it wont be for everyone. It will be for the poor, selected people who represent the tiny 1-2% in the training population who bothered to get filtered and not take the easy option. It wont be for the exponentially evoloving breed of thick that seem to buck the financial crisis and push on regardless.

If this is true, I'd expect to hear nothing from CTC for a while. If it's not true then expect the rumour to be squashed by the end of today. Get it in no uncertain terms in writing. (And saying CTC weren't aware of the rumour is rubbish - they'll certainly know about it now). I'd strongly recommend someone asks them themselves and if they could be so kind, report back.

I'd imagine there are some tight little sphincters around the country this morning. It's not nice having the goal posts moved after you have a struck a sweet kick is it?
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:58
  #3352 (permalink)  
 
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The "attractive" thing about CTC scheme was that the TR was not to be paid ... upfront at least. The ridiculous "allowance" during TR (500/month) and Line Training (1k/month) was almost like paying for it but not quite.

So IF the rumour turns out to be true, what does it entails for non rated pilots in the pool ? They'd have to pay CTC for the rating and then sign up a contract with Brookfield to work as contractors for EZY. I've heard of Brookfield contracts at Ryanair but I don't know the ins and outs. How does it compare to CTC Flexicrew ? Rates, roster...

PS: I hate the road the industry is taking ie contractors & total lack of security / stability but at the moment I am trying to "picture" what the situation would look like...

FSP
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 09:21
  #3353 (permalink)  
 
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'Pay as you Go' Line Training

Remember that once you are Line Training, and have been 'released' (from the Safety Pilot), you are now earning money for Easyjet (or Ryanair or any other 'Pay as you Go' airline. You are taking work away from an experienced pilot for the sake of profit for the airline

This is an abuse of a privilege provided by the regulatory bodies to allow the continuing training of professional pilots. It is not meant to be a revenue earner for an airline and the CAA / IAA / EASA should stop it
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 09:56
  #3354 (permalink)  
 
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As FrenchScotPilot says, through the CTC scheme you already somewhat pay for your TR by earning less for 8 months (2 monhts training and 6 months initial placement), not even mentioning being unpaid if there is a period between training and line training.

Granted that doesn't sum up to 30k but if its already the accepted terms, then any suggestion that CTC cadets have to contribute more towards their TR means that they will be edged ever closer to that 30k marvel.

Anyone who gets word from CTC/Easy/Brookfield please post asap, I'm sure many people are watching this forum very anxious about their futures
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 10:00
  #3355 (permalink)  
 
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Every minute this 'rumour' isn't squashed makes the rumour become more real. I for one am very interested to hear the truth. I can see why it would and wouldn't be true.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 11:02
  #3356 (permalink)  
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The *rumour* is that easyJet and Brookfield have done a deal of some sort for something.

I'm not privy to any information. I don't know anything. I merely pass on a rumour which is now running wild within the company.



Stepping aside from that. Any sensible Wannabe would look back and note that where Ryanair lead, (booking fees, luggage fees, check in fees, SSTR's etc) other airline seem to follow.

As long as there is a supply of idiots willing to put 33,000 into Michael O Learys bulging bank account for the chance to fly his passengers around on whatever terms he thought appropriate - other airline managers are under pressure from investors to do the same.

The CAA don't give a toss.

There is nothing to keep back the wolves from the doors.


WWW
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 11:15
  #3357 (permalink)  
 
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Didn't a senior procurement manager / director join easy from ryanair?

A continued flexi deal between easy & ctc is on the cards I'm sure, at least until market conditions improve to a situation of more like 2004/5/6 , but I would hope CTC wings cadets wouldn't have to source more funding than what is already required to complete a TR.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 11:15
  #3358 (permalink)  
 
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Well, it's going on in other industries...

New inquiry into exploitation of the work-for-free interns | Money | The Guardian

So why don't they investigate ours aswell?
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 16:31
  #3359 (permalink)  
 
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And what's this I hear about CTC Flexiwings people being sent to sandbag for easyJet type ratings and not being paid for it?
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 17:08
  #3360 (permalink)  
 
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sandbag?..............
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