How to search for a job?
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Aviation Job Search
the http://www.aviationjobsearch.com
Has been unavailable all week. Have they gone bust?
Has been unavailable all week. Have they gone bust?
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Aviationjobsearch
Had the same problem here and emailed them yesterday to ask.
This is the response but still unable to access the site:
It is up now but it's waiting to be propagated around the ISPs on the
web.
Regards
Matt Farrah
Group Sales Manager
Interactive Recruitment and Training Ltd
[email protected]
This is the response but still unable to access the site:
It is up now but it's waiting to be propagated around the ISPs on the
web.
Regards
Matt Farrah
Group Sales Manager
Interactive Recruitment and Training Ltd
[email protected]
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How to search for a job?
I would be interested to hear how everyone else is searching for their ideal job, whether it be chasing an airline or turboprop job, or the smaller charter and air taxi positions.
I am referring to web sites, advertisers, periodicals and allsorts of other sources of information. A central database would be good but would probably make it all far too easy.
There are a couple of obvious places to look but I guess that it would be quite possible to apply to a restricted number of companies purely because you are not familiar with the industry.
Thoughts and insider knowledge welcomed!! Time is ticking away!
I am referring to web sites, advertisers, periodicals and allsorts of other sources of information. A central database would be good but would probably make it all far too easy.
There are a couple of obvious places to look but I guess that it would be quite possible to apply to a restricted number of companies purely because you are not familiar with the industry.
Thoughts and insider knowledge welcomed!! Time is ticking away!
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Well I've been filling out application forms on the internet, but after 12 months, no luck there. Have recently adopted phoning people, still no luck, but it's got to be better than having some filter applied to your application form because you are wrong colour, age, school, toenails etc.
Others have just sent their CVs to everyone, but this mass mailing doesn't seem to really work - at least I've not heard it has.
Knowing someone seems to be the key. Everyone I know who has got a job, bar one, has known someone to recommend them which has led to a job offer.
Good luck. It isn't easy.
Others have just sent their CVs to everyone, but this mass mailing doesn't seem to really work - at least I've not heard it has.
Knowing someone seems to be the key. Everyone I know who has got a job, bar one, has known someone to recommend them which has led to a job offer.
Good luck. It isn't easy.
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Look beyond your own borders
You are at a much greater advantage if you are able to look beyond the borders of your own country, from my experiance anyway. People who I trained with from all over have found jobs in Africa, Asia, South America sometimes even just as a safety pilot on single pilot ops and moving onto a Caravan or King Air, building invaluble turbine time. Those shiny 737s and Turboprops are often a lot closer once you pass that 1000Hr mark.
The problem many people have are liabilities in their home country, I hate to say it, but a house, family etc who cannot afford the main breadwinner moving abroad to make a pittence. If you don't have any liabilities, try and set aside a budget and possibly go on an extended vacation, knock on doors in the back of beyond and you might get lucky. Even if its just bags of rice in the back of a 172, your still flying. Then keep on applying to the airlines back home.
For many smaller operators in the UK your efforts may be fruitless as insurance requires you hold a minimum amount of hours before you can fly with them. Quite often Around 5-700TT 300ME, give or take. Flying abroad is an excellent way of matching these requirements then get back to Europe so your on the doorstep to the big fellas.
DB
The problem many people have are liabilities in their home country, I hate to say it, but a house, family etc who cannot afford the main breadwinner moving abroad to make a pittence. If you don't have any liabilities, try and set aside a budget and possibly go on an extended vacation, knock on doors in the back of beyond and you might get lucky. Even if its just bags of rice in the back of a 172, your still flying. Then keep on applying to the airlines back home.
For many smaller operators in the UK your efforts may be fruitless as insurance requires you hold a minimum amount of hours before you can fly with them. Quite often Around 5-700TT 300ME, give or take. Flying abroad is an excellent way of matching these requirements then get back to Europe so your on the doorstep to the big fellas.
DB
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Very strange. I don't have any responsibilities here: not married (not even a girlfriend) no house, no debts and i've tried to apply across whole europe, asia, and the middle east. It does not have to be a jet for me. Well even then still without a flying job. So i guess "luck" is still a very important factor.
good luck
good luck
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Your right, it is a question of luck. But like I said before,
Sometimes thats the way to do it. Knock on doors, these small operators only tend to hire if you are actually on their doorstep. For example, a French guy I trained with went to Kenya and flew C206's off dirt strips. He flies 737s for AirAsia now. A Kiwi guy flew 172's around Zambia (i think) and flies B1900s in New Zealand now. Another guy went to Botswana and flew surveyors in and out of mining areas and now flies a 747 for MK. Those guys got bored of waiting in their home lands so did like a backpacking jobsearch, like a student would do after finishing their A-levels. One month here, 2 months there, it wasnt easy, but once they got talking to people it finally paid off.
There is no guaruntee but if your at your wits end at home it could be worth a go.
DB
If you don't have any liabilities, try and set aside a budget and possibly go on an extended vacation, knock on doors in the back of beyond and you might get lucky. Even if its just bags of rice in the back of a 172, your still flying.
There is no guaruntee but if your at your wits end at home it could be worth a go.
DB
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All sounds like good and sensible stuff. It has certainly helped with Europe opening up a little, so allowing those with JAA licences to work more freely.
No doubt it will be swings and roundabouts, but do you find that Africa tends to rely more on the FAA licenses or JAA?
Still very difficult tring to get the first few hundred hours multi and that can also trap you in the air taxi industry for longer than you might think.
One minute you dont have enough multi time and the next, you have an air taxi mindset and too used to working on your own, ie not multi crew, so your profile is wrong again for the airlines.
I am certainly considering things further afield now, hopefuly to find something very enjoyable as well as something that will stand me in good stead for a good development base.
I would be very happy to find a company where I can settle and develop within but maybe there are more stepping stones to go through yet.
Happy hunting folks!
No doubt it will be swings and roundabouts, but do you find that Africa tends to rely more on the FAA licenses or JAA?
Still very difficult tring to get the first few hundred hours multi and that can also trap you in the air taxi industry for longer than you might think.
One minute you dont have enough multi time and the next, you have an air taxi mindset and too used to working on your own, ie not multi crew, so your profile is wrong again for the airlines.
I am certainly considering things further afield now, hopefuly to find something very enjoyable as well as something that will stand me in good stead for a good development base.
I would be very happy to find a company where I can settle and develop within but maybe there are more stepping stones to go through yet.
Happy hunting folks!
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I found that mass-applying with the minimum amount of energy per application was not for me.
Instead, try to pick one airline or operator and really focus och that airline, give them a call and ask who you should send your CV to. Send it in and call a couple of days later to follow up that they have it. If it's not a blank no, then try to follow up on any leads they give by giving them a call now and then. You really dont have to have anything to say, they know what you want and will most likely lead the conversation. This has been the case in all calls that I made in search of a job. In cese they don't want you to call, make sure you're not aware of it at first contact!
Just pick an airline, in general, the turboprop scene is hotter than the jet-scene right now so just pick one and give them a call and take it from there.
/LnS
Instead, try to pick one airline or operator and really focus och that airline, give them a call and ask who you should send your CV to. Send it in and call a couple of days later to follow up that they have it. If it's not a blank no, then try to follow up on any leads they give by giving them a call now and then. You really dont have to have anything to say, they know what you want and will most likely lead the conversation. This has been the case in all calls that I made in search of a job. In cese they don't want you to call, make sure you're not aware of it at first contact!
Just pick an airline, in general, the turboprop scene is hotter than the jet-scene right now so just pick one and give them a call and take it from there.
/LnS
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Randomly sending CVs almost NEVER works.
Phoning is better, because even if they don't have a job, they'll end up knowing who you are providing you don't call too often and you're friendly. So when hiring is approaching, you'll not only send the CV to the right person, but at the right time.
But if you really want to get chances:
1) Get a job dispatching/crewing/etc at an airline that DOES promote from the inside if the person's right for the job. EZY don't. BMI do. Eastern do. Do your reasearch! Most of the time it'll mean working for a third party, like Menzies or Serviceair. What matters is face time with captains. DO NOT try and shove your CV down their throat before you start knowing them. Be a bit patient. Once they like you because you're doing a good job, it'll be easy to get your CV put on the right desk.
2) Work at a small airport close to a big airport. Or even better, at the GA base of a large-ish airport (LPL, NCL, BRS, etc). Chances are, there will be some airline pilots who either own their own plane, instruct, examine, etc. Best contacts you can make.
Sending CVs and reading every aviation website out there will drive you insane very quickly.
P
Phoning is better, because even if they don't have a job, they'll end up knowing who you are providing you don't call too often and you're friendly. So when hiring is approaching, you'll not only send the CV to the right person, but at the right time.
But if you really want to get chances:
1) Get a job dispatching/crewing/etc at an airline that DOES promote from the inside if the person's right for the job. EZY don't. BMI do. Eastern do. Do your reasearch! Most of the time it'll mean working for a third party, like Menzies or Serviceair. What matters is face time with captains. DO NOT try and shove your CV down their throat before you start knowing them. Be a bit patient. Once they like you because you're doing a good job, it'll be easy to get your CV put on the right desk.
2) Work at a small airport close to a big airport. Or even better, at the GA base of a large-ish airport (LPL, NCL, BRS, etc). Chances are, there will be some airline pilots who either own their own plane, instruct, examine, etc. Best contacts you can make.
Sending CVs and reading every aviation website out there will drive you insane very quickly.
P
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I think you are right permafrost, it is the ultimate networking technique.
I was looking at the cabin crew positions going with one of the agencies but I just cant see myself in high heels and fishnets..........
.....yeeowch, who threw that!
I reckon it would be really good fun and a great way of meeting new friends.
Some really good discussion and suggestions, thanks guys.
I was looking at the cabin crew positions going with one of the agencies but I just cant see myself in high heels and fishnets..........
.....yeeowch, who threw that!I reckon it would be really good fun and a great way of meeting new friends.
Some really good discussion and suggestions, thanks guys.
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I sent CVs out for 18 months. Not a thing, except a quite impressive file of PFO letters, which propped the doors open in the summer months and provided excellent kindling material for the winter.
Two really important things to do:
1. Change your game plan - If sending out CVs is not working then you have to adjust your plan. Ask yourself what else you can do to just put yourself that little bit ahead of everyone else.
2. Network - It is vital to network. You don't want to be the one stuck in a pile of CVs. You want to be the person who has been personally recommended by someone, which again puts you back at point 1. You stand out from the crowd.
It worked for me. I networked like mad, and have made some great friends, many of which work for major airlines. It's a small world and many of them know each other too. I changed my plan and paid for my type rating. A recommendation was put forward by a Captain I know, and after a 1 hour interview I had a right hand seat job in a 737.
I am no brain box, and I'm 36 years old, so probably not what you would call exactly what the airlines are looking for. Thing is it worked for me. Alot of it is down to luck for sure, but a great deal of it is also down to decisions I made and the people I know. I am always amazed at how helpful other pilots are to assist in getting someone on the first rung of the ladder.
Two really important things to do:
1. Change your game plan - If sending out CVs is not working then you have to adjust your plan. Ask yourself what else you can do to just put yourself that little bit ahead of everyone else.
2. Network - It is vital to network. You don't want to be the one stuck in a pile of CVs. You want to be the person who has been personally recommended by someone, which again puts you back at point 1. You stand out from the crowd.
It worked for me. I networked like mad, and have made some great friends, many of which work for major airlines. It's a small world and many of them know each other too. I changed my plan and paid for my type rating. A recommendation was put forward by a Captain I know, and after a 1 hour interview I had a right hand seat job in a 737.
I am no brain box, and I'm 36 years old, so probably not what you would call exactly what the airlines are looking for. Thing is it worked for me. Alot of it is down to luck for sure, but a great deal of it is also down to decisions I made and the people I know. I am always amazed at how helpful other pilots are to assist in getting someone on the first rung of the ladder.
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Hi avro
Really glad to hear that you made it. It is a long struggle whichever way you go but it makes it all the more worthwhile when you get there.
As far as networking goes, maybe the next question is apart from the little bit of networking that I have done, how do I get to meeting more people. It certainly isn't going to be achieved by instructing in mickey mouse backwaters at an airfield that noone has ever heard of.
I am literally applying the methods in this post as we speak. It is certainly broadening my horizons, changing my perceptions and general train of thought and the method is developing too. All good stuff!
Really glad to hear that you made it. It is a long struggle whichever way you go but it makes it all the more worthwhile when you get there.
As far as networking goes, maybe the next question is apart from the little bit of networking that I have done, how do I get to meeting more people. It certainly isn't going to be achieved by instructing in mickey mouse backwaters at an airfield that noone has ever heard of.
I am literally applying the methods in this post as we speak. It is certainly broadening my horizons, changing my perceptions and general train of thought and the method is developing too. All good stuff!
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Networking is difficult to get started. Your networking has to start really with people you perhaps trained with. I had a couple of friends who got airline jobs, and I kept in regular contact with. They would speak to people within the airline who they knew, and I would then get speaking to them. I would never miss an opportunity. Going out for a drink with one of them was usually good, as they would then see someone they know from the airline and introduce me, and then I would explain my tale. Almost always they would give me their mobile number and keep me informed what was going on. These people then start talking about you in other circles, and your name starts to get mentioned. It took quite a while, but within a year I had alot of contacts. I would keep in touch with all of them. Don't pester, but keep them updated. They will always tell you what’s going on too. Another important factor here is they provide you with huge support, when you feel like it's all going pear shaped and never going to happen. In addition they have some great ideas of different ways to improve your chances. When I was thinking about doing a SSTR I spoke to lots of these guys. They gave me such good advice. It was not just about should I should I not. They helped me decide what aircraft type would be best, what establishment would be best to do the training etc etc. Without that help I doubt I would have been able to make the best decision, and doubt that within 4 months of finishing I would have a jet job.
If I can help in any way PM me.
If I can help in any way PM me.
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HELLO!
I have two questions :
What do you mean about "networking ?" sorry, i am not english, I don't understand...
- it is possible to know how many pilots unemployed, statistics etc ? are there lot of pilots unemployed in UK ?
thanks!
sam
I have two questions :
What do you mean about "networking ?" sorry, i am not english, I don't understand...
- it is possible to know how many pilots unemployed, statistics etc ? are there lot of pilots unemployed in UK ?
thanks!
sam
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What do you mean about "networking ?"
However on both sides of the Channel, and around the mare noustrum there are exceptions...which is nice and encouraging. Keep going.
Wish you all good luck
PZ
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Making friends with people enough for them to help you get a job is not an easy thing to do though.
Also don't get the wrong idea and only make friends with people to get yourself a job!
Also don't get the wrong idea and only make friends with people to get yourself a job!
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Shed jock
If anyone's got any brite ideas how a shed jock might get back in gainful employment other than going to Africa I'd be delighted to hear. Theres only so much instructing kamikaze PPLs a man can take
Theres only so much instructing kamikaze PPLs a man can take
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one thing i don't understand...
I have read all above, and in PPrune, I can see that some pilots, citizen UK, do not find a job. Ok it is not easy, but you speak english no problem, the quality of a course in UK is high, you send many CV's all in Europe, World I thnik, but nothing! comapnies ask TR, many Hours, etc etc so all the pilots have got 200 hours before to start no ?
If all the companies ask thousands hours, Where we Fly to start ?? i have read lot of things about Afrique, USA, UK, France, China etc etc :
afrique : heavy experience
USA : without green card = nothing or to find an american girlfriend!
UK : i think there are lots of opportunities, but a lot of students too...
France => dead and if you do not know a friend, captain friend => dead too
ok Air France hire some cadets pilots, but it is very difficult...like CTC I think.
China = yes people say "they look for FI, Pilots, they Hire a lot! etc " but when I see the conditions : F/O must type rated, 500 hours on type, 1000 hours on type. " flight instructor must 500 hours of instructing etc"
I think it is the same problem in all the world, each country ask differents conditions. Some people from UK say in this forum " go to an other country, they hire" and in France I hear " go to UK, there are lot of companies! they hire"
Really ??
So it is prove we always think that it is better elsewhere...
Then each pilot, student, friend...has his advice. Nobody say the same thing.
For example when you will reply at my message, guys will say " yeah, thera are oportunites if you are motivated !!" Other will say " No, if you do not get money = no job"
I think more you read advice more you can not choose the way to take for becoming an airliine pilot.
For example I would like getting a rating FI. and I can read " the majors do not look at your experience on single engine!" and other " yes you can have a good experience and up your hours".
So a forum is for people "talk" between them, give advice, help etc.
But I wonder if it is really good...
But it is the same thing in the life in fact. One day you see a mate who says you "I will do a type rating finally...I don't find a job!" and you see an other mate "do not do that!! if not guaranted job".
excuse my english, I hope you understand what I mean.
I do not criticize it is just a note what I read.
I am a student pilot like lot of other students pilots who wonder in wich world I live, everyday I wonder which choice making, who listenning, how much spend money, where to go, where to fly with low hours,...etc.
thank you!
sam
I have read all above, and in PPrune, I can see that some pilots, citizen UK, do not find a job. Ok it is not easy, but you speak english no problem, the quality of a course in UK is high, you send many CV's all in Europe, World I thnik, but nothing! comapnies ask TR, many Hours, etc etc so all the pilots have got 200 hours before to start no ?
If all the companies ask thousands hours, Where we Fly to start ?? i have read lot of things about Afrique, USA, UK, France, China etc etc :
afrique : heavy experience
USA : without green card = nothing or to find an american girlfriend!
UK : i think there are lots of opportunities, but a lot of students too...
France => dead and if you do not know a friend, captain friend => dead too
ok Air France hire some cadets pilots, but it is very difficult...like CTC I think.
China = yes people say "they look for FI, Pilots, they Hire a lot! etc " but when I see the conditions : F/O must type rated, 500 hours on type, 1000 hours on type. " flight instructor must 500 hours of instructing etc"
I think it is the same problem in all the world, each country ask differents conditions. Some people from UK say in this forum " go to an other country, they hire" and in France I hear " go to UK, there are lot of companies! they hire"
Really ??
So it is prove we always think that it is better elsewhere...
Then each pilot, student, friend...has his advice. Nobody say the same thing.
For example when you will reply at my message, guys will say " yeah, thera are oportunites if you are motivated !!" Other will say " No, if you do not get money = no job"
I think more you read advice more you can not choose the way to take for becoming an airliine pilot.
For example I would like getting a rating FI. and I can read " the majors do not look at your experience on single engine!" and other " yes you can have a good experience and up your hours".
So a forum is for people "talk" between them, give advice, help etc.
But I wonder if it is really good...
But it is the same thing in the life in fact. One day you see a mate who says you "I will do a type rating finally...I don't find a job!" and you see an other mate "do not do that!! if not guaranted job".
excuse my english, I hope you understand what I mean.
I do not criticize it is just a note what I read.
I am a student pilot like lot of other students pilots who wonder in wich world I live, everyday I wonder which choice making, who listenning, how much spend money, where to go, where to fly with low hours,...etc.
thank you!
sam