Working in Europe?
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What would your advice be to an aspiring pilot who's submitted hundreds of resumes for job postings he has no qualifications for?
Well what about "make sure you meet the minimum requirements for the position ?" (That includes license qualifications)
Otherwise you are wasting your time and everyone elses
Well what about "make sure you meet the minimum requirements for the position ?" (That includes license qualifications)
Otherwise you are wasting your time and everyone elses
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Originally Posted by nzmarty
considering every thread that you have started asks questions on behalf of your husband, i would see it as thread lethargy.
he needs to be asking some of these q's himself. you're not going to be at his interview. i hope he's produced his own CV, and it's not written by you too.
he needs to be asking some of these q's himself. you're not going to be at his interview. i hope he's produced his own CV, and it's not written by you too.
I dont even know what a CV is.
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Hi Marriedtoapilot,
I can understand ur eagerness..
I think the only way u can start in places like europe is as a flight instructor...
Since there is not much hours...i think conversion of license is necessary.(Not sure ..may be some others will correct this...)
Regards
Kanak
I can understand ur eagerness..
I think the only way u can start in places like europe is as a flight instructor...
Since there is not much hours...i think conversion of license is necessary.(Not sure ..may be some others will correct this...)
Regards
Kanak
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M2P,
you've already had some very good advice from Westhawk, who seems to have a firm grip of the realities of the hiring market in the USA. I think he's right that your husband has a somewhat unrealistic view of his prospects at his current level of experience. Your husband must take the blinkers off and see the world as it really is!
In the USA, his only prospect is to become a CFI and start building hours and experience. This is the accepted and expected route to commercial aviation in that country; there are no shortcuts as there are in UK. To be fair, the USA model is far more typical of commercial aviation worldwide than the UK model, which does accept low-houred pilots into the right-hand seat of jet airliners.
However, the low-houred pilot in UK is still far from guaranteed work in such aircraft. Those who complete a mentored scheme via CTC, Oxford, Cabair or FTE Jerez are the most likely to achieve a B737/A320 position on graduation because they are pre-selected for such positions, usually against forecast vacancies. All those wannabes who complete purely speculative, self-sponsored courses, whether integrated or modular, are further back in the queue - though a fair number at the moment are getting those jet jobs simply because the hiring market is so strong, and some UK airlines like to take a proportion of their new-hires direct from training. There are a variety of reasons for this which I won't go into in any depth, but cost is the chief one!
Historically, the vast majority of UK wannabes achieved their airline ambitions via instructing, air-taxi, night freight and/or commuter work, and this is still true for a large number of low-houred pilots here. These individuals will get their first airline job with typically between 800 and 2000 hours total time, achieved over probably three to five years post training. Your husband, should he decide to come to UK, will need to fit into this mould.
As you suggest earlier, he will need to do a conversion of his licence from FAA to JAA. At his experience level, this will be expensive. Very expensive. Some details can be found here, though I strongly advise him to get chapter and verse on this from either the CAA or a reputable school. He (and you, as the fact-finder) should have a good look through the sticky thread at the top of the firum for a great deal of useful information about the UK system. You will need a thorough understanding of it if you are to make a well-founded decision on your future.
Lastly, your husband should be getting flying time right now. Unless he is in current practice at flying an aeroplane, he will not be offered a job by anyone.
I hope this helps.
Scroggs
you've already had some very good advice from Westhawk, who seems to have a firm grip of the realities of the hiring market in the USA. I think he's right that your husband has a somewhat unrealistic view of his prospects at his current level of experience. Your husband must take the blinkers off and see the world as it really is!
In the USA, his only prospect is to become a CFI and start building hours and experience. This is the accepted and expected route to commercial aviation in that country; there are no shortcuts as there are in UK. To be fair, the USA model is far more typical of commercial aviation worldwide than the UK model, which does accept low-houred pilots into the right-hand seat of jet airliners.
However, the low-houred pilot in UK is still far from guaranteed work in such aircraft. Those who complete a mentored scheme via CTC, Oxford, Cabair or FTE Jerez are the most likely to achieve a B737/A320 position on graduation because they are pre-selected for such positions, usually against forecast vacancies. All those wannabes who complete purely speculative, self-sponsored courses, whether integrated or modular, are further back in the queue - though a fair number at the moment are getting those jet jobs simply because the hiring market is so strong, and some UK airlines like to take a proportion of their new-hires direct from training. There are a variety of reasons for this which I won't go into in any depth, but cost is the chief one!
Historically, the vast majority of UK wannabes achieved their airline ambitions via instructing, air-taxi, night freight and/or commuter work, and this is still true for a large number of low-houred pilots here. These individuals will get their first airline job with typically between 800 and 2000 hours total time, achieved over probably three to five years post training. Your husband, should he decide to come to UK, will need to fit into this mould.
As you suggest earlier, he will need to do a conversion of his licence from FAA to JAA. At his experience level, this will be expensive. Very expensive. Some details can be found here, though I strongly advise him to get chapter and verse on this from either the CAA or a reputable school. He (and you, as the fact-finder) should have a good look through the sticky thread at the top of the firum for a great deal of useful information about the UK system. You will need a thorough understanding of it if you are to make a well-founded decision on your future.
Lastly, your husband should be getting flying time right now. Unless he is in current practice at flying an aeroplane, he will not be offered a job by anyone.
I hope this helps.
Scroggs
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Hey Scroggs,
That was a good post. I am coming to the UK from Canada this fall myself with the right to work. I am very current and am flying in northern Canada as a Captian on a multi engine piston aircraft.
Perhaps you could fill me in as to how a 2600TT 300MPIC ATPL holder might go about finding a good flying job in the UK. I have looked into the conversion to JAA and I think that I have a handle on all the ins and outs. I dont care about airlines, I just want to fly something with 2 engines, turbines if possible and make a fair wage.
In Canada there are several good message boards where company post job openings, and there is a magizine that publishes the contact infor for just about every company in the country. Does the UK have similiar resources?
Thanks to all who may reply.
That was a good post. I am coming to the UK from Canada this fall myself with the right to work. I am very current and am flying in northern Canada as a Captian on a multi engine piston aircraft.
Perhaps you could fill me in as to how a 2600TT 300MPIC ATPL holder might go about finding a good flying job in the UK. I have looked into the conversion to JAA and I think that I have a handle on all the ins and outs. I dont care about airlines, I just want to fly something with 2 engines, turbines if possible and make a fair wage.
In Canada there are several good message boards where company post job openings, and there is a magizine that publishes the contact infor for just about every company in the country. Does the UK have similiar resources?
Thanks to all who may reply.
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SR Firstly, you're on the wrong forum. This one is for those baby pilots that are still in basic training and are trying to get their first job. The relevant forum for experienced pilots on Pprune is Terms and Endearments.
Secondly, we do not allow job adverts (or any other kind of adverts) on the open forums. That is because Pprune is funded by paying advertisers, and it undermines them and us if commercial concerns get advertising for free through people cutting-and-pasting job adverts. If a company wants its jobs advertised here, it can pay like everyone else (after all, it wouldn't give its revenue seats away, would it?!).
I don't know of a forum in UK that does what you suggest. You might try PPJN (Google it!) as a starter.
Scroggs
Secondly, we do not allow job adverts (or any other kind of adverts) on the open forums. That is because Pprune is funded by paying advertisers, and it undermines them and us if commercial concerns get advertising for free through people cutting-and-pasting job adverts. If a company wants its jobs advertised here, it can pay like everyone else (after all, it wouldn't give its revenue seats away, would it?!).
I don't know of a forum in UK that does what you suggest. You might try PPJN (Google it!) as a starter.
Scroggs
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Hey ,
Sorry for posting in the wrong forum.
I havn't had much luck using a google search but I'm sure there is something out there. If not I guess I could always create one similar to AvCanada.
Thanks for the reply and I look forward to the seminar.
Smokin
Sorry for posting in the wrong forum.
I havn't had much luck using a google search but I'm sure there is something out there. If not I guess I could always create one similar to AvCanada.
Thanks for the reply and I look forward to the seminar.
Smokin
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Originally Posted by scroggs
M2P,
Lastly, your husband should be getting flying time right now. Unless he is in current practice at flying an aeroplane, he will not be offered a job by anyone.
I hope this helps.
Scroggs
Lastly, your husband should be getting flying time right now. Unless he is in current practice at flying an aeroplane, he will not be offered a job by anyone.
I hope this helps.
Scroggs
Thank you Scroggs for the links to further information also. Yeah he's not current at all. Hasn't flown a plane since 2001. I've heard him talk about flying for a couple of hours to keep his license current, but he's never actually done it.
Though he does spend tons of time on MSFS.
Last edited by Married2APilot; 24th Jun 2006 at 05:38.
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M2P each little snippet of info you give about your dearly beloved confirms my feeling that he's a dreamer, not a do-er! Sounds to me like he needs a rocket up his arse, and I guess that's what you're trying to do. Unless he gets off his tush and starts flying, aviation as a profession will never be anything but a dream. Writing letters doesn't get people a job if they don't qualify in the first place, as I'm sure you appreciate.
Good luck!
Scroggs
Good luck!
Scroggs
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ANY Job for US CPL in europe or Dubai ?
Hi,
I'm in dire need for a flying job that pays at least food and rent.
Trouble is: Having a US CPL and a JAR PPL FI, I simply cannot afford the JAR CPL/ATPL any more.
I could add a US or JAR Multi, but having no further experience wouldn't make it much of a use, right ?
Except if somebody would have some multi instruction job on offer.
So I'm stuck with US CPL IFR SEL at the moment.
My experience is +1400 tt, about 20 different aircraft all SEL and X-ctry in about 50% of the US and at least 50% of europe.
I don't mind working night freight or similar
Would appreciate any suggestions, thank you.
I'm in dire need for a flying job that pays at least food and rent.
Trouble is: Having a US CPL and a JAR PPL FI, I simply cannot afford the JAR CPL/ATPL any more.
I could add a US or JAR Multi, but having no further experience wouldn't make it much of a use, right ?
Except if somebody would have some multi instruction job on offer.
So I'm stuck with US CPL IFR SEL at the moment.
My experience is +1400 tt, about 20 different aircraft all SEL and X-ctry in about 50% of the US and at least 50% of europe.
I don't mind working night freight or similar
Would appreciate any suggestions, thank you.
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A stab in the dark
Seems like the DHL operation out of Bahrain was looking for Metroliner pilots a couple of years ago...I haven't followed it that close for some time now.
Also seems like India is really hurtin' for pilots right now. Not exactly Europe or Dubai....
Good luck.
Also seems like India is really hurtin' for pilots right now. Not exactly Europe or Dubai....
Good luck.
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Europe for the american pilot entrepreneur
Ladys and Gents,
I am an American pilot and a citizen of the U.S. Wondering what are the realistics figures of a pilot job in Europe, while emphasizing on Ryan Air, EasyJet and mainly British Airways.
I have taken the steps to understand what it takes to get a frozen ATPL , and a JAA one at that. Understand the process involved and the monetary investment. I currently hold an american CPL+IR, with about 1200 hrs.
I understand you need either the right to live and work in the EU or a working visa.
I am looking for hourly minimums that are realistic to get an FO job in Europe, primarly with the airlines mentioned above. And also looking to knoe what is the physibality of getting a job with a mare working visa in the UK (or Ireland)? what kind of work permit would you need? and how hard is the process of obtaining one?
Thanks in advance!
-downwindabeam
I am an American pilot and a citizen of the U.S. Wondering what are the realistics figures of a pilot job in Europe, while emphasizing on Ryan Air, EasyJet and mainly British Airways.
I have taken the steps to understand what it takes to get a frozen ATPL , and a JAA one at that. Understand the process involved and the monetary investment. I currently hold an american CPL+IR, with about 1200 hrs.
I understand you need either the right to live and work in the EU or a working visa.
I am looking for hourly minimums that are realistic to get an FO job in Europe, primarly with the airlines mentioned above. And also looking to knoe what is the physibality of getting a job with a mare working visa in the UK (or Ireland)? what kind of work permit would you need? and how hard is the process of obtaining one?
Thanks in advance!
-downwindabeam
Warning Toxic!
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<<I understand you need either the right to live and work in the EU or a working visa.>>
This covers it. Whilst people like actors and city bankers seem to be able to manage it, for mere mortals like us, it's almost impossible unless you have a family connection. It is even harder for us going west- the green card or US work permit is again virtually impossible to get. The only way to get into the UK is to travel under a truck and declare yourself a refugee- then you stay....with the other 1/2 million or so who get lost in our bureaucratic system and end up staying. You don't want to come here- the taxes will make you go crosseyed, healthcare is a disgrace, and however bad your politicians, ours are worse!
More people want to go in your direction than this!
This covers it. Whilst people like actors and city bankers seem to be able to manage it, for mere mortals like us, it's almost impossible unless you have a family connection. It is even harder for us going west- the green card or US work permit is again virtually impossible to get. The only way to get into the UK is to travel under a truck and declare yourself a refugee- then you stay....with the other 1/2 million or so who get lost in our bureaucratic system and end up staying. You don't want to come here- the taxes will make you go crosseyed, healthcare is a disgrace, and however bad your politicians, ours are worse!
More people want to go in your direction than this!
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The previous poster is obviously a little concerned at the amount of US citizens now working in the EU, as are many of us who do not see the same privilege extended to those of EU extraction.
However Sir let me assure you if you were a type rated pilot on a Bae 146 or B737NG you would have very little difficulty obtaining a position in Ireland with FR or City Jet.
If you are not in possession of such a qualification contact the US embassy in Ireland very helpful people. There are many of your countrymen and those a little north of the US working in Ireland at the moment. If its something you really want pursue it, if however you are trying to find a quick fix to unemployment in the US keep plugging away in the US try regionals,Biz Jet, anything. There are plenty of guys in Ireland and and the rest of the Eu already in possession of the right to work in the EU. I wish you the best as someone who has been desperate and willing to do anything I will always remember the wise words of my CFI "Just enjoy it " (he meant learning your trade and being willing to do anything!the quirky jobs and people you meet is what you will remember long after you retire)
Good luck!
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"Unrestricted" permit to work in the EU
I have a quick question for those of you who might be from non-Shengen states...as an Estonian citizen, is it possible to be selected to the CTC wings scheme, or the Ryanair cadet type-qual course? Both sites state that candidates must "ideally have the unrestricted right to live and work within the EU."
With the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Spain, etc. having lifted all work restrictions on accession state nationals, and all restrictions ending in 2011, do you think they would let it slide??? My only fear is that they consider me "restricted" from working in Germany, France, Italy, etc.--those countries don't currently allow permits for accession nationals.
Anyone ever heard of an accession state national getting a place on the CTC wings scheme, Oxford Aviation scheme, or Ryanair type-rating course??? Any advice much appreciated!!!
With the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Spain, etc. having lifted all work restrictions on accession state nationals, and all restrictions ending in 2011, do you think they would let it slide??? My only fear is that they consider me "restricted" from working in Germany, France, Italy, etc.--those countries don't currently allow permits for accession nationals.
Anyone ever heard of an accession state national getting a place on the CTC wings scheme, Oxford Aviation scheme, or Ryanair type-rating course??? Any advice much appreciated!!!
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I have a quick question for those of you who might be from non-Shengen states...as an Estonian citizen, is it possible to be selected to the CTC wings scheme, or the Ryanair cadet type-qual course? Both sites state that candidates must "ideally have the unrestricted right to live and work within the EU."
With the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Spain, etc. having lifted all work restrictions on accession state nationals, and all restrictions ending in 2011, do you think they would let it slide??? My only fear is that they consider me "restricted" from working in Germany, France, Italy, etc.--those countries don't currently allow permits for accession nationals.
Anyone ever heard of an accession state national getting a place on the CTC wings scheme, Oxford Aviation scheme, or Ryanair type-rating course??? Any advice much appreciated!!!
With the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Spain, etc. having lifted all work restrictions on accession state nationals, and all restrictions ending in 2011, do you think they would let it slide??? My only fear is that they consider me "restricted" from working in Germany, France, Italy, etc.--those countries don't currently allow permits for accession nationals.
Anyone ever heard of an accession state national getting a place on the CTC wings scheme, Oxford Aviation scheme, or Ryanair type-rating course??? Any advice much appreciated!!!
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not sure if this is a faciecious post...and not sure how much of that a320 time is PIC..if you have 500 pic on type, you're golden with easyJet. just call around to jaa schools about license conversions. If you have 500 PIC a320 you might even swing a work permit, if you aren't an eu national.
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M2P, a CV refers to a "curriculum vitae," which is essentially a european word for a resume--albeit some might argue that a CV contains a lengthier history of a candidate, wheras a resume is slightly more condensed.
Sadly, the 2 remaining US operators of bae 146 aircraft will have withdrawn them from service by the time your hubby would be able to build any time on them in the us, otherwise I might suggest he get on with one of those regional carriers and build hours on that type, still in wide usage in euro fleets. Maybe he could get on with a foreign operator of said aircraft: check out http://www.smiliner.com/operators/operators.shtml
Also, might I suggest that if your hubby really really really wants to work in europe...I mean, really really badly, you might check out the following routes:
1) Flight instruct in the US, build hours, work for a regional carrier, eventually get 1000 pic turbine time, then try to get on with jetblue or southwest, flying airbuses or 737s, respectively. Eventually get 500 hours on type, in command, at one of those carriers. Then ryanair or easyjet might sponsor a work permit for him. Of course, by that time he would be earning substantial amounts of money in the US at US tax rates, and you could buy a vacation flat in Nice in 2 year just off of the tax savings from working in the US.
2) Both of you guys go get nursing degrees...there are several colleges in the US where they have intensive 2 year certification programmes. With a nursuing certification (something globally in high demand)...you go work for the nurse-strapped NHS in the UK. Nurses can essentially work any hours of the night, and can often block schedule their hours into 3 days on 3 days off, etc. It shouldn't be that hard to get a work permit as a nurse...I think you could work 1 year on a work permit, then apply for permanent residency...at that point, hubby flight instructs, flies night freight, air taxi, etc...after 5 years of this, you guys can apply for citizenship...then, he'll have hours, and you'll both have citizenship....apps out to the airlines, and you've got your dream job....
So tell him he can either languish in a forgotten dream, or take the necessary steps and dig the heels in and make it happen. Having lived in the US and the UK, I think there is a certain cultural difference: americans have big dreams and grand ideas, and talk a lot about things they could do...brits seem to appreciate action more than ideas. You might have run into that on this forum.
tell your hubby that midwestern redneck adage--"get er done!!!"
Sadly, the 2 remaining US operators of bae 146 aircraft will have withdrawn them from service by the time your hubby would be able to build any time on them in the us, otherwise I might suggest he get on with one of those regional carriers and build hours on that type, still in wide usage in euro fleets. Maybe he could get on with a foreign operator of said aircraft: check out http://www.smiliner.com/operators/operators.shtml
Also, might I suggest that if your hubby really really really wants to work in europe...I mean, really really badly, you might check out the following routes:
1) Flight instruct in the US, build hours, work for a regional carrier, eventually get 1000 pic turbine time, then try to get on with jetblue or southwest, flying airbuses or 737s, respectively. Eventually get 500 hours on type, in command, at one of those carriers. Then ryanair or easyjet might sponsor a work permit for him. Of course, by that time he would be earning substantial amounts of money in the US at US tax rates, and you could buy a vacation flat in Nice in 2 year just off of the tax savings from working in the US.
2) Both of you guys go get nursing degrees...there are several colleges in the US where they have intensive 2 year certification programmes. With a nursuing certification (something globally in high demand)...you go work for the nurse-strapped NHS in the UK. Nurses can essentially work any hours of the night, and can often block schedule their hours into 3 days on 3 days off, etc. It shouldn't be that hard to get a work permit as a nurse...I think you could work 1 year on a work permit, then apply for permanent residency...at that point, hubby flight instructs, flies night freight, air taxi, etc...after 5 years of this, you guys can apply for citizenship...then, he'll have hours, and you'll both have citizenship....apps out to the airlines, and you've got your dream job....
So tell him he can either languish in a forgotten dream, or take the necessary steps and dig the heels in and make it happen. Having lived in the US and the UK, I think there is a certain cultural difference: americans have big dreams and grand ideas, and talk a lot about things they could do...brits seem to appreciate action more than ideas. You might have run into that on this forum.
tell your hubby that midwestern redneck adage--"get er done!!!"