Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)
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Cadets will have their place at RYR in the future as the business model is heavily inclined towards cadet training. And I'm afraid that this is no good news for rated and experienced 737 pilots. Chances are that rated FOs will only start getting jobs once there are enough cadets to make the training part of the business profitable.
Why? I can think of three reasons. First, you would be deluded to think that the course is sold at self-worth. There's a significant profit calculated into the €30,000 end figure. Second, after accepting all the financial risk associated with the course, cadets work on a reduced pay scheme for quite a while. The first increase in pay after line training comes at 500 hours, then I think there's another one at 1500. Experienced guys join on the higher pay band right away. Finally, standardisation. RYR prefer people who will not carry over any negative training from another 737 operator and have learned to fly it their way right from day one.
So, you do have some prospects as a cadet. The awkward thing though is that you can't know how long it will take until you start flying and when will you start consistently getting enough flying per month to be able to properly support yourself with this job. Bear in mind, if you fly 20-30 hours per month, your earnings will be unimpressive, to say the least. So, take care not to land yourself in hot water by getting a loan with the expectation of decent earnings right off the bat.
Why? I can think of three reasons. First, you would be deluded to think that the course is sold at self-worth. There's a significant profit calculated into the €30,000 end figure. Second, after accepting all the financial risk associated with the course, cadets work on a reduced pay scheme for quite a while. The first increase in pay after line training comes at 500 hours, then I think there's another one at 1500. Experienced guys join on the higher pay band right away. Finally, standardisation. RYR prefer people who will not carry over any negative training from another 737 operator and have learned to fly it their way right from day one.
So, you do have some prospects as a cadet. The awkward thing though is that you can't know how long it will take until you start flying and when will you start consistently getting enough flying per month to be able to properly support yourself with this job. Bear in mind, if you fly 20-30 hours per month, your earnings will be unimpressive, to say the least. So, take care not to land yourself in hot water by getting a loan with the expectation of decent earnings right off the bat.
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PilotLZ,
Where is the sense in that? After 1500h you're basically too expensive for RYR to keep you and it's curtains. The great circle of life. Are people really that stupid?
Where is the sense in that? After 1500h you're basically too expensive for RYR to keep you and it's curtains. The great circle of life. Are people really that stupid?
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It doesn't have to be curtains when demand is high, let alone that you can't run an airline on cadets alone. There have to be experienced FOs. Quite a few have to make it until command, especially given that internal promotion is the preferred method of filling CPT vacancies (again, due to the training philosophy and the unwillingness to water it down with externally trained candidates). But, nonetheless, it's a zero-hour contract - and people need to keep this in mind at all times. They might use any given pilot up to the legal limits when there's a lot of flying (not anytime soon). They might not use them at all when there's no flying. Or they might use the cheaper pilot of the two when there's a choice.
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I suggest anyone considering signing up for the Ryanair program to read "Love on the dole" by Walter Greenwood, set in depression-era Britain, 1933.
"Harry Hardcastle, who starts out as a 16-year-old, employed – as the young Greenwood had been – in a Salford pawnshop. He longs to join the men at Marlowe's engineering plant, and makes it there, only to be faced with the iniquities of an absurdly exploitative apprenticeship system."
Damn good read with striking parallels to the modern low cost aviation industry.
"Harry Hardcastle, who starts out as a 16-year-old, employed – as the young Greenwood had been – in a Salford pawnshop. He longs to join the men at Marlowe's engineering plant, and makes it there, only to be faced with the iniquities of an absurdly exploitative apprenticeship system."
Damn good read with striking parallels to the modern low cost aviation industry.
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Hi hsilva7,
I have an MCC-JOC on a320 (28h), so if I get shortlisted after the online assessment I will have to pay for some 737 sim hours....
I have 186 flight hours (integrated atpl + FI rating completed 6 months ago). 264 total hours flight an sim time.
I have an MCC-JOC on a320 (28h), so if I get shortlisted after the online assessment I will have to pay for some 737 sim hours....
I have 186 flight hours (integrated atpl + FI rating completed 6 months ago). 264 total hours flight an sim time.
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I've just got the basic MCC in an A320 with no JOC no MCC APS and I'm attending to a sim assessment the next days.
If any of you have been there lately any new info of the assessment/interview would be really helpful!
If any of you have been there lately any new info of the assessment/interview would be really helpful!
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Fixedgear
What absolute nonsense this statement is. I suggest anyone considering signing up for the programme takes ZERO notice of posts like this.
"an absurdly exploitative apprenticeship scheme" haha, tell this to the guys who paid 29k for the type rating in the past. The same guys that are now TRI/TRE/Base Capt.
What absolute nonsense this statement is. I suggest anyone considering signing up for the programme takes ZERO notice of posts like this.
"an absurdly exploitative apprenticeship scheme" haha, tell this to the guys who paid 29k for the type rating in the past. The same guys that are now TRI/TRE/Base Capt.
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Whom are currently furloughed and haven’t flown since April.
Hotel Alpha you clearly have an emotional bias towards ryr which serves only to misinform and mislead those who may be taking out loans to pay for this course. Those people need to know the whole picture. As previously mentioned there’s a spectrum or worst / best case scenarios and no one can be certain what the future holds. Those willing to take the risk should do so with realistic expectations and a solid plan B.
I think most of us who’ve been in this industry for nearly 15 years will agree Ryanair have been exploiting pilots for sometime now and will always push their agenda as far as legally possible. When times are good pilots may prosper - if money is your thing - but when times are bad you absolutely cannot rely on ryr to have your back. You are very replaceable. Times are currently beyond bad, you do the math.
Hotel Alpha you clearly have an emotional bias towards ryr which serves only to misinform and mislead those who may be taking out loans to pay for this course. Those people need to know the whole picture. As previously mentioned there’s a spectrum or worst / best case scenarios and no one can be certain what the future holds. Those willing to take the risk should do so with realistic expectations and a solid plan B.
I think most of us who’ve been in this industry for nearly 15 years will agree Ryanair have been exploiting pilots for sometime now and will always push their agenda as far as legally possible. When times are good pilots may prosper - if money is your thing - but when times are bad you absolutely cannot rely on ryr to have your back. You are very replaceable. Times are currently beyond bad, you do the math.
Last edited by Contact Approach; 30th Jan 2021 at 22:10.
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The unforeseen situation that has no certain end just yet. You do realise banks require loan repayments due monthly right? How do you expect to repay those when you’re not flying?
Because no one who’s worked hard to earn and save £30,000 would risk giving that up without a solid offer of employment during a worldwide pandemic.
Your posts suggest you haven’t yet entered the Industry thus don’t fully understand the machine you are letting yourself in for. Your lack of risk or financial understanding leads me to believe you are not using your own money therefore there is little risk to you. Unfortunately the world doesn’t evolve around spoilt children ruthlessly pursuing dreams... most people have hard life choices to make, a mortgage to pay and a family to support.
Because no one who’s worked hard to earn and save £30,000 would risk giving that up without a solid offer of employment during a worldwide pandemic.
Your posts suggest you haven’t yet entered the Industry thus don’t fully understand the machine you are letting yourself in for. Your lack of risk or financial understanding leads me to believe you are not using your own money therefore there is little risk to you. Unfortunately the world doesn’t evolve around spoilt children ruthlessly pursuing dreams... most people have hard life choices to make, a mortgage to pay and a family to support.
Last edited by Contact Approach; 30th Jan 2021 at 23:18.
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Fixedgear,
I'm not of the belief that Ryr have no intent to eventually offer these guys something, i'm sure they will when at such time there is sufficient demand and it's likely it will be as a contractor with Buzz. That looks likely the best case scenario presently. People need to fully understand where that may leave them further into the future so they must plan ahead. It's likely you will be moved someplace far from home and given a zero hours contract. You won\t have any say over your roster, sickness or time off and if you query it you are in for tea and no biscuits. If you are flying sub 30 hours a month you won't be able to support yourself nor pay back your bank loan. You have invested 30k + expenses + however much you borrowed to get your licence and will be accruing interest faster than you can pay it back. You are far better off keeping your 30k and driving your delivery vans until such time as there is a proper recovery and a proper job on offer.
I'm not of the belief that Ryr have no intent to eventually offer these guys something, i'm sure they will when at such time there is sufficient demand and it's likely it will be as a contractor with Buzz. That looks likely the best case scenario presently. People need to fully understand where that may leave them further into the future so they must plan ahead. It's likely you will be moved someplace far from home and given a zero hours contract. You won\t have any say over your roster, sickness or time off and if you query it you are in for tea and no biscuits. If you are flying sub 30 hours a month you won't be able to support yourself nor pay back your bank loan. You have invested 30k + expenses + however much you borrowed to get your licence and will be accruing interest faster than you can pay it back. You are far better off keeping your 30k and driving your delivery vans until such time as there is a proper recovery and a proper job on offer.
HotelAlpha1
I have asked you before and posed a few other questions so you could defend your position, instead you have deleted the post.
So I shall ask you again, as once again you are aggressively dismissing the experience of others without substantiating why.
Do you fly the 737 for Ryanair or have in the past? Do you even have operational experience on any airline? It seems you don’t.
If you do, explain to us why do you believe it to be nonsense when people sharing their true experiences with an operator that has very little regard to its pilots and crew? Who are you to judge and what do you know from outside, that current pilots don’t?
I’ll patiently await...
p.s. no point lying because I will ask you about a few clauses in the three contracts, and it’s something that you either have it and experienced or you don’t.
I have asked you before and posed a few other questions so you could defend your position, instead you have deleted the post.
So I shall ask you again, as once again you are aggressively dismissing the experience of others without substantiating why.
Do you fly the 737 for Ryanair or have in the past? Do you even have operational experience on any airline? It seems you don’t.
If you do, explain to us why do you believe it to be nonsense when people sharing their true experiences with an operator that has very little regard to its pilots and crew? Who are you to judge and what do you know from outside, that current pilots don’t?
I’ll patiently await...
p.s. no point lying because I will ask you about a few clauses in the three contracts, and it’s something that you either have it and experienced or you don’t.
Last edited by Raph737; 31st Jan 2021 at 11:35.
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Look guys I understand your points
Im not in the industry, just a PPL holder with ATPL theory passes & some solo hours wondering what to do next
Yes a €30k type rating with no job offer crosses the line, I wouldn't take that, the 737 isn't used much by other EU airlines, Jet2 wont recognize a type rating with no hours on type, hoping in 12 months by the time I am applying the jobs market will have healed a bit more.
There isnt a profession in the world thats not been ripped to shreds by this disease, do you think pursuing another career outside aviation, solicitor, architect, is not going to have seen the same mess airlines have seen. As for Ryanair riding roughshod over their staff, the others are no better, easyjet L3 MPL, Walsh fire & rehire, and I have seen the same in my former career too, that has nothing to do with aviation. This disease has brought out the worst in industry, no employer cares about you, you are an expense, to be dumped as soon as no longer needed, aviation does not have a monopoly on that fact.
Im not in the industry, just a PPL holder with ATPL theory passes & some solo hours wondering what to do next
Yes a €30k type rating with no job offer crosses the line, I wouldn't take that, the 737 isn't used much by other EU airlines, Jet2 wont recognize a type rating with no hours on type, hoping in 12 months by the time I am applying the jobs market will have healed a bit more.
There isnt a profession in the world thats not been ripped to shreds by this disease, do you think pursuing another career outside aviation, solicitor, architect, is not going to have seen the same mess airlines have seen. As for Ryanair riding roughshod over their staff, the others are no better, easyjet L3 MPL, Walsh fire & rehire, and I have seen the same in my former career too, that has nothing to do with aviation. This disease has brought out the worst in industry, no employer cares about you, you are an expense, to be dumped as soon as no longer needed, aviation does not have a monopoly on that fact.
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Contact Approach
This. That's precisely what most colleagues here are trying to get across to the youngsters. That having a zero-hour contract, requiring you to relocate at your own expense and not giving you almost any guaranteed income (think it was 12 hours per month guaranteed contractual pay at Buzz?) can be risky business in times when travel between any two points in Europe may be clamped down at no notice and for an indefinite period. This has to be accounted for when making any decisions. Period. And all success stories of people who joined as cadets and got their command on the fourth year of service, however inspiring they might be, should not be let to cloud anyone's judgement of the risks involved. Those are stories of a different era which might not come back anytime soon, despite the first (rather unimpressive) vaccination efforts across Europe.
This. That's precisely what most colleagues here are trying to get across to the youngsters. That having a zero-hour contract, requiring you to relocate at your own expense and not giving you almost any guaranteed income (think it was 12 hours per month guaranteed contractual pay at Buzz?) can be risky business in times when travel between any two points in Europe may be clamped down at no notice and for an indefinite period. This has to be accounted for when making any decisions. Period. And all success stories of people who joined as cadets and got their command on the fourth year of service, however inspiring they might be, should not be let to cloud anyone's judgement of the risks involved. Those are stories of a different era which might not come back anytime soon, despite the first (rather unimpressive) vaccination efforts across Europe.