On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is having done extra-curricular activities?
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On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is having done extra-curricular activities?
Hi there folks.
At the moment i'm doing my GSCE's. I would say i'm an able student, I'm predicted 6 A*'s and 4 A's. I'm in the process of choosing my A levels, and may decide to do Further Maths (requires you to have got A* in the GSCE) instead of normal maths in order to show a potential employer that i have a further understanding of maths. If i decide to do Further Maths i will not have any free periods during college hours, hence i will have less time to do extra-curricular activities. Many people tell me that airlines dont just look at your grades, but also your personality, and your extra-curricular skills. I could do the Duke of Edinburgh award and this would probably demonstrate that i have team skills etc. If i do normal maths for A level i would have 4 free periods, in order to do extra curricular stuff.
My question is, how important is doing extra curricular stuff in terms of gaining employment with airlines? I currently play a wide range of team sports outside of college hours, eg. football, cricket and hockey. Any advice would be appreciated!
Regards
Arpan
At the moment i'm doing my GSCE's. I would say i'm an able student, I'm predicted 6 A*'s and 4 A's. I'm in the process of choosing my A levels, and may decide to do Further Maths (requires you to have got A* in the GSCE) instead of normal maths in order to show a potential employer that i have a further understanding of maths. If i decide to do Further Maths i will not have any free periods during college hours, hence i will have less time to do extra-curricular activities. Many people tell me that airlines dont just look at your grades, but also your personality, and your extra-curricular skills. I could do the Duke of Edinburgh award and this would probably demonstrate that i have team skills etc. If i do normal maths for A level i would have 4 free periods, in order to do extra curricular stuff.
My question is, how important is doing extra curricular stuff in terms of gaining employment with airlines? I currently play a wide range of team sports outside of college hours, eg. football, cricket and hockey. Any advice would be appreciated!
Regards
Arpan
Last edited by arpansingla; 5th Mar 2005 at 10:17.
I would deffinately do the DofE! I've done Bronze - Gold and loved every minute of it! Especially the expeditions. For Gold we hiked round the mourne mountains in Northern Ireland for 5 days.
As for further maths, I was tempted myself to do it, but eventually chose something else instead.
I dont think that future employers will be as impressed with further maths, well definately not as much as the DofE. The DofE shows commitment, teamwork skills, and leadership skills.
I'm not too sure how the out of school sports etc affects things. I'm currently at uni and as I wasnt good enough for the uni football team, I got together with a few mates of mine and we started our own team.
For the record, I took Maths, Physics and IT at A'Level and am currently 3rd year Computer Eng at Uni of Manchester.
Jamo
As for further maths, I was tempted myself to do it, but eventually chose something else instead.
I dont think that future employers will be as impressed with further maths, well definately not as much as the DofE. The DofE shows commitment, teamwork skills, and leadership skills.
I'm not too sure how the out of school sports etc affects things. I'm currently at uni and as I wasnt good enough for the uni football team, I got together with a few mates of mine and we started our own team.
For the record, I took Maths, Physics and IT at A'Level and am currently 3rd year Computer Eng at Uni of Manchester.
Jamo
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Oscar & Jamo, thanks for your posts.
I havent yet started the DoE course as of yet, intending to commence shortly within the next week. Did you both do it at school/college or with another organisation? Do you have to have free periods during school hours to do it, or do you do it in your own time after school?
thanks
Arpan
I havent yet started the DoE course as of yet, intending to commence shortly within the next week. Did you both do it at school/college or with another organisation? Do you have to have free periods during school hours to do it, or do you do it in your own time after school?
thanks
Arpan
I started the DofE while I was in the Air Training Corps. Did the Bronze and Silver while I was there. Most of it was completed at weekends etc especially the volunteer work.
I did the Gold in 6th form though, so quite a bit of that was completed in school time.
Not sure how your school time table system works, but mine was 6 periods a day. And each subject had 6 periods a week. So while I was taking an AS I had 6 free periods, and after I dropped it I had 12. Very useful to get the homework done in
as most evenings were spent out with mates or the GF of the time.
Jamo
I did the Gold in 6th form though, so quite a bit of that was completed in school time.
Not sure how your school time table system works, but mine was 6 periods a day. And each subject had 6 periods a week. So while I was taking an AS I had 6 free periods, and after I dropped it I had 12. Very useful to get the homework done in
as most evenings were spent out with mates or the GF of the time.Jamo
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I did D of E during my school lunchtimes, and the practical elements were at the weekends. We completed the award in the lower sixth giving us plenty of time for our A Levels in the Upper Sixth.
D of E is hard but very rewarding, you'll enjoy it.
D of E is hard but very rewarding, you'll enjoy it.
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Silver and Gold D of E are a must
Some people say the Gold D of E is worth an A-Level, in context.
Try doing something else may be schools aerospace challenge. www.aerospacechallenge.org
I did it. Captained my team into winning it 2 yrs ago. £500 each too! Plus the fact it shows leadership, team work skills etc on your CV. And you get a week's flying at Cranfield.
My school didnt do it before I heard about it. Talk to one of your teachers about it. I had to set it up in my school pretty much all off my own back. Now they enter a team every year.
There's loads of other stuff out there too...
On Engineering side (& Im still gona be a pilot- but looks good on your CV, & develops character) try the Royal Academey Engineering Education Scheme.
If you want adventure; try Team 'World Challenge Expeditions'. Brilliant if you want to do gap year type stuff but dont wana take a whole year out- You can do this in summer between 6th form years.
RAF Air Cadets, CCF, Army/Navy Cadets, Scouts, St Johns Ambulance.
Make sure that when you go for a Job Interview, you stand out from the crowd!
Some people say the Gold D of E is worth an A-Level, in context.
Try doing something else may be schools aerospace challenge. www.aerospacechallenge.org
I did it. Captained my team into winning it 2 yrs ago. £500 each too! Plus the fact it shows leadership, team work skills etc on your CV. And you get a week's flying at Cranfield.
My school didnt do it before I heard about it. Talk to one of your teachers about it. I had to set it up in my school pretty much all off my own back. Now they enter a team every year.
There's loads of other stuff out there too...
On Engineering side (& Im still gona be a pilot- but looks good on your CV, & develops character) try the Royal Academey Engineering Education Scheme.
If you want adventure; try Team 'World Challenge Expeditions'. Brilliant if you want to do gap year type stuff but dont wana take a whole year out- You can do this in summer between 6th form years.
RAF Air Cadets, CCF, Army/Navy Cadets, Scouts, St Johns Ambulance.
Make sure that when you go for a Job Interview, you stand out from the crowd!
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The DofE award scheme is an excellent product, and well worth doing, but I would advise you to do it because you want to and not because you feel you have to - the same goes for any other extra-curricular activity. Some 'legacy' employers, such as BA, will give you credit for having done them (they see you as potential management, not just pilots), but in today's more mercenary employment climate, most airlines are only interested in your aviation qualifications.
Further maths, which also seems to be a common topic amongst you, is irrelevant to your aviation aspirations unless you wish to be an aeronautical engineering student at university - and we don't need you to be aeronautical engineering graduates in order to be pilots. O-level maths is as scientific as you need to get for the ATPLs, and for most employers.
Scroggs
Further maths, which also seems to be a common topic amongst you, is irrelevant to your aviation aspirations unless you wish to be an aeronautical engineering student at university - and we don't need you to be aeronautical engineering graduates in order to be pilots. O-level maths is as scientific as you need to get for the ATPLs, and for most employers.
Scroggs
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Scroggs, you're spot on about DofE, do it if you fancy it.
All this "DofE is a must" is absolute rubbish.
You'll get the job if you show some natural ability in the sim and can get on with the people interviewing you. (including answering a few standard questions from HR, strengths, weaknesses etc.)
All this c**p about "do this and that because it shows leadership / character development" etc is misleading. You'll need some decent grades to get into the interview room but once there it's as I said above.
There's no secret formula to get into this industry, just be a decent bloke / lass, not up your own ass, not a shrinking violet and you'll get the job. Same as any job surely - OK maybe not Fame Acadamy.
Clearly, thinking that you should get a job simply because you've done DofE etc etc is a mistake and shows character flaws I would say.
Disregard all of the above if applying to BA.
All this "DofE is a must" is absolute rubbish.
You'll get the job if you show some natural ability in the sim and can get on with the people interviewing you. (including answering a few standard questions from HR, strengths, weaknesses etc.)
All this c**p about "do this and that because it shows leadership / character development" etc is misleading. You'll need some decent grades to get into the interview room but once there it's as I said above.
There's no secret formula to get into this industry, just be a decent bloke / lass, not up your own ass, not a shrinking violet and you'll get the job. Same as any job surely - OK maybe not Fame Acadamy.
Clearly, thinking that you should get a job simply because you've done DofE etc etc is a mistake and shows character flaws I would say.
Disregard all of the above if applying to BA.
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Whyeyeman, could you kindly explain why the info you provided should be ignored for BA? Excuse my ignorance.
I did not intend that getting the DoE would simply get me a job, but merely if it would help, and put me in the right direction. If all you had to do to get a job with an airline was get the DoE then wouldnt everyone being do it?! If you see the title of my posting, it was do 'extra curricular' acticvties help you in terms of job prospects, not just the DoE, it was an example.
I did not intend that getting the DoE would simply get me a job, but merely if it would help, and put me in the right direction. If all you had to do to get a job with an airline was get the DoE then wouldnt everyone being do it?! If you see the title of my posting, it was do 'extra curricular' acticvties help you in terms of job prospects, not just the DoE, it was an example.
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I think it comes down to what experience level you are.
Young, with school qualifications, a shiny CPL and little else (possibly no real other previous career) and you are going to be lacking on your CV. I don't disagree that the vast majority of airlines just want flying experience, BUT, of those that recruit 200hr newbies I would suspect it is the 'other' activities on your CV that will make you stand out enough as someone worth interviewing all other qualifications being the same.
Even if it is not used in selecting interview candidates (because of a more arbitrary method like phoning the first candidates in a pile of CVs to fill the 12 slots for interview), then I think it will certainly help you when it comes to interview. You will have a lot more 'experiences' to use in answering tough interview questions than the equivalent pilot mentioned previously who has done nothing.
So it is IMHO very worthy, extremely good fun and could well prove its worth for you as a low houred first jobber. As mentioned previously though, its really hours and experience that is going to make you stand out from the opposition to a greater extent.
PP
Young, with school qualifications, a shiny CPL and little else (possibly no real other previous career) and you are going to be lacking on your CV. I don't disagree that the vast majority of airlines just want flying experience, BUT, of those that recruit 200hr newbies I would suspect it is the 'other' activities on your CV that will make you stand out enough as someone worth interviewing all other qualifications being the same.
Even if it is not used in selecting interview candidates (because of a more arbitrary method like phoning the first candidates in a pile of CVs to fill the 12 slots for interview), then I think it will certainly help you when it comes to interview. You will have a lot more 'experiences' to use in answering tough interview questions than the equivalent pilot mentioned previously who has done nothing.
So it is IMHO very worthy, extremely good fun and could well prove its worth for you as a low houred first jobber. As mentioned previously though, its really hours and experience that is going to make you stand out from the opposition to a greater extent.
PP
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rubbish WHYEYEMAN.
I think we are losing context with the whole subject
Charcter and personal quality develpoment is related to your maturity.
Unfortunatley I lacked maturity, thus why I chose to got to UNI first than join RAF direct. Personal qualities are viewed as more important than intelectual skills - hence why you dont need a degree to be a pilot! But most people go to UNI to develop themselves and have a good back-up plan.
Bottom line is do what you enjoy, but in no way can you compare yourself to your competitors as everyone is at a different stage of maturity/age etc.
If YOU are at school and cant afford flying yet, why not help youself out now by working hard, doing some activities which are FREE to take part of, than getting pissed up every night.
Then once you've done your work on the ground, attain the succes you deserve in the air!
If you want Ailrine Sponsorship (which seems so rare, or for even RAF too) you need to be better than your competitors. A CV loaded with experience gives you that edge - as well as all the qualities of leadership, management & team playing, which show through in interviews, group exercises.
If you are a natural born leader, team player, manager etc then dont worry, apply with no evidenece to back your claims up with- perhaps as WHYEYEMAN has. But if you want to keep the dream alive just as much as the rest of us, I'd do your best at every oppurtunity you are given.
Bootom line; WHYEYEMAN, who are you? What have you ever done or achieved?? Why dont you start helping others out, we all want to be pilots.
I think we are losing context with the whole subject
Charcter and personal quality develpoment is related to your maturity.
Unfortunatley I lacked maturity, thus why I chose to got to UNI first than join RAF direct. Personal qualities are viewed as more important than intelectual skills - hence why you dont need a degree to be a pilot! But most people go to UNI to develop themselves and have a good back-up plan.
Bottom line is do what you enjoy, but in no way can you compare yourself to your competitors as everyone is at a different stage of maturity/age etc.
If YOU are at school and cant afford flying yet, why not help youself out now by working hard, doing some activities which are FREE to take part of, than getting pissed up every night.
Then once you've done your work on the ground, attain the succes you deserve in the air!
If you want Ailrine Sponsorship (which seems so rare, or for even RAF too) you need to be better than your competitors. A CV loaded with experience gives you that edge - as well as all the qualities of leadership, management & team playing, which show through in interviews, group exercises.
If you are a natural born leader, team player, manager etc then dont worry, apply with no evidenece to back your claims up with- perhaps as WHYEYEMAN has. But if you want to keep the dream alive just as much as the rest of us, I'd do your best at every oppurtunity you are given.
Bootom line; WHYEYEMAN, who are you? What have you ever done or achieved?? Why dont you start helping others out, we all want to be pilots.
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Scroggs, I presume your use of the term 'o-level' is referring to GCSE?
Pilot Pete is quite correct; having the DofE Gold on your CV may make a difference if you're very young with little experience other than school, university and your flying school. It's not a given however, as it will depend on the interviewer knowing about the scheme - there are many who don't.
The RAF is a quite separate consideration. Unlike the civilian world, you are not being employed as a pilot; you are being employed as an Officer, who will have many responsibilities and tasks quite unrelated to flying an aeroplane. You will be a manager, a dispenser of authority and discipline, required to instill respect in those you may be tasked with being responsible for. You will be groomed towards ever greater managerial and military responsibility and you will sometimes be expected to take posts which involve no flying whatsoever.
This requires quite different qualities from the airline business, which requires from you essentally nothing other than being the best you can be within the flight deck. BA and a very few others do ask, sometimes quite junior, pilots to take on managerial roles, but these very rarely require the individual to give up flying. In fact, those full-time managerial posts that require aircrew experience are usually filled by medically-grounded pilots. Most airlines will want nothing from you other than flying qualifications, a pleasant manner, and an ability to work when the rest of the world is asleep!
Scroggs
Last edited by scroggs; 6th Mar 2005 at 12:08.
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arpansingla,
You are obviously a very academically gifted person with predicted grades like those. The sort of person who should have no trouble with the ATPL ground school NAVs and TECH Exams.
You`ll find that further maths whilst being a very creditable qualification will not really benefit you in your Pilot Training. Normal A Level maths will be more than adequate.
Personnally I would spend the time doing the DofE developing other skills such as leadership, teamwork etc etc. I looks much better on your CV.
At the end of the day it will come down to the all important interview where the difference between you and the next guy will decide who gets the job. Remember both of you will probably be sat there with similar academic qualifications and exactly the same flying qualifications.
When they ask you things like, "Tell us a time when you have shown leadership skills," or "Worked well as a team." it`s nice to have something good to pull out of the hat.
Airlines are not just looking for pilot`s, they are generally assessing you as a potential Captain, i.e a manager. They want to know your personal skills. Can you work as a team? Can you lead? D of E is good for all these sort of things.
From someone who has been in your shoes, has sat in a few interviews for the airlines and struggled with some of those tricky interview questions, Do the DofE.
PS I got there in the End.
You are obviously a very academically gifted person with predicted grades like those. The sort of person who should have no trouble with the ATPL ground school NAVs and TECH Exams.
You`ll find that further maths whilst being a very creditable qualification will not really benefit you in your Pilot Training. Normal A Level maths will be more than adequate.
Personnally I would spend the time doing the DofE developing other skills such as leadership, teamwork etc etc. I looks much better on your CV.
At the end of the day it will come down to the all important interview where the difference between you and the next guy will decide who gets the job. Remember both of you will probably be sat there with similar academic qualifications and exactly the same flying qualifications.
When they ask you things like, "Tell us a time when you have shown leadership skills," or "Worked well as a team." it`s nice to have something good to pull out of the hat.
Airlines are not just looking for pilot`s, they are generally assessing you as a potential Captain, i.e a manager. They want to know your personal skills. Can you work as a team? Can you lead? D of E is good for all these sort of things.
From someone who has been in your shoes, has sat in a few interviews for the airlines and struggled with some of those tricky interview questions, Do the DofE.
PS I got there in the End.
