Exodus at FlyBE
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In holding pool, what happens now??
Completed Sim nearly three weeks ago but still not received any official written confirmation of results or intentions.
Have been told that the sim was successful and have been placed in the pool but have no idea of how long for.
They are obviously snowed under and I feel that I would be bugging them if I call.
Is anyone else sat in limbo with no idea of what happens next??
Have been told that the sim was successful and have been placed in the pool but have no idea of how long for.
They are obviously snowed under and I feel that I would be bugging them if I call.
Is anyone else sat in limbo with no idea of what happens next??
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er82- ok ok I think we all know how many of the FO’s feel in the company, and it isn’t surprising,. If your comments are anything to go by then I cant see myself getting a very warm welcome..which is a shame, as up to this point I have been made very welcome by all involved on the induction week.
>>>No one with any sense will be pointing the finger at you guys<<< I just hope that this is the case.
I kinda feel that this whole issue has been exhausted now as what’s happened has happened and the issue is simply down to the company..not us new pilots that have been given the opportunity to begin our careers.
>>>No one with any sense will be pointing the finger at you guys<<< I just hope that this is the case.
I kinda feel that this whole issue has been exhausted now as what’s happened has happened and the issue is simply down to the company..not us new pilots that have been given the opportunity to begin our careers.
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hmmmmmm, having read back over all my posts on this topic, I can't find the bit where my comments would in any way suggest you'll not be welcomed....
Please point them out.
I did notice these points I made :
>>Keep your head down and certainly don't go making a big thing of being on the jet!<< (surely that would be a good way for anyone to enter an airline - it's happened far too often that someone arrives with some huge ego. It normally disappears after a week or two though...) (but i can't see how you would interpret that as "we're gonna all be vying for you blood when you get here")
>>Certainly wasn't suggesting that any new guys would be on the receiving end of abuse from us! We all know this is totally down to the management not being able organise a pi**-up in a brewery. Our grievances lie totally with them<<
Again, the fact that i've stated we all know it's the management's fault would point to the fact that we know it's not your fault this 'deal' has happened.....
Unfortunately the whole issue hasn't quite yet been exhausted... there's still the £5000 type-rating thing to sort! Once we all get the same deal though, then it'll be sorted!
Please point them out.
I did notice these points I made :
>>Keep your head down and certainly don't go making a big thing of being on the jet!<< (surely that would be a good way for anyone to enter an airline - it's happened far too often that someone arrives with some huge ego. It normally disappears after a week or two though...) (but i can't see how you would interpret that as "we're gonna all be vying for you blood when you get here")
>>Certainly wasn't suggesting that any new guys would be on the receiving end of abuse from us! We all know this is totally down to the management not being able organise a pi**-up in a brewery. Our grievances lie totally with them<<
Again, the fact that i've stated we all know it's the management's fault would point to the fact that we know it's not your fault this 'deal' has happened.....
Unfortunately the whole issue hasn't quite yet been exhausted... there's still the £5000 type-rating thing to sort! Once we all get the same deal though, then it'll be sorted!
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Oh Dear
The only good thing about this is that I get out of going to the sim for another 2 months while all the new hires are being trained.
Its a bit of a mess at the moment I worked out that at BHD we are now down to 11 captains when we should have 20!!!
I dont think that its right whats happening to the new guys going onto the 146 but if the company cant get enough people through in time to fill the dash seats how are they going to release more experienced crews to fly the 146??
The way I see it they didn't really have much choice but I agree this sucks big time.
I cant believe for a minute that people just starting there first airline jobs are bitching over not getting the full 146 FO salary the dash FO's salary is'nt bad for a starting wage so be thankfull for what you've got!!!
Before I get linched I know there are many dedicated guys starting the with the company who are thankfull for the opportunity's they have been given but I hope that there arn't too many salary hunters amongst them who wont show the company any loyalty and will jump ship in 18 months leaving us all in the S**te again.
In my opinion flybe need to recruite an equal number of low hours guys to 1000-1500hr experienced people to fill the void for internal promotion. Its ok hiring loads of new FO's but they can't be captains for at least 2 years and thats what we need is potential captains and soon.
I dont understand for the life of me why more guys like JOCK dont get hired with lots of multi/turbine hours who are closer to a command and are more likely to stay put for longer, it seems to me that they address the short term problem but create another one for 2 years in the future.
P.S. If I were you JOCK I would try and get in touch with Eddie as it sounds like a bit if a cock up if what you said is accurate.
My job with flybe nearly fell through due to someone in the office screwing up.
Its a bit of a mess at the moment I worked out that at BHD we are now down to 11 captains when we should have 20!!!
I dont think that its right whats happening to the new guys going onto the 146 but if the company cant get enough people through in time to fill the dash seats how are they going to release more experienced crews to fly the 146??
The way I see it they didn't really have much choice but I agree this sucks big time.
I cant believe for a minute that people just starting there first airline jobs are bitching over not getting the full 146 FO salary the dash FO's salary is'nt bad for a starting wage so be thankfull for what you've got!!!
Before I get linched I know there are many dedicated guys starting the with the company who are thankfull for the opportunity's they have been given but I hope that there arn't too many salary hunters amongst them who wont show the company any loyalty and will jump ship in 18 months leaving us all in the S**te again.
In my opinion flybe need to recruite an equal number of low hours guys to 1000-1500hr experienced people to fill the void for internal promotion. Its ok hiring loads of new FO's but they can't be captains for at least 2 years and thats what we need is potential captains and soon.
I dont understand for the life of me why more guys like JOCK dont get hired with lots of multi/turbine hours who are closer to a command and are more likely to stay put for longer, it seems to me that they address the short term problem but create another one for 2 years in the future.
P.S. If I were you JOCK I would try and get in touch with Eddie as it sounds like a bit if a cock up if what you said is accurate.
My job with flybe nearly fell through due to someone in the office screwing up.
Last edited by jarjam; 4th Feb 2005 at 08:16.
flybe.com
surprised that you've been in the company so long and never heard of Stu Burns.
Not sure where he was based when he retired but was based in JER for a good while as CAPT on 146.
BPM
surprised that you've been in the company so long and never heard of Stu Burns.
Not sure where he was based when he retired but was based in JER for a good while as CAPT on 146.
BPM
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I think it is fair to say that of the 146 guys on the induction week VERY VERY few of us were at all concerned about the salary......
The VAST MAJORITY of us are extremely grateful for this oppurtunity, and willing to work our socks off in return. I can certainly speak for myself, and also once again, for the vast majority when I say our loyalty does lie with flybe.
er82 - I would hope I would have acted properly without getting peoples backs up, but I take on your advise - consider my head well and truly below the parapet!
Hope to see everybody on the line and in the crew room - and as bleed air has said everybody we have come into contact with at flybe has been fantastic - and long may that continue!!
JP
The VAST MAJORITY of us are extremely grateful for this oppurtunity, and willing to work our socks off in return. I can certainly speak for myself, and also once again, for the vast majority when I say our loyalty does lie with flybe.
er82 - I would hope I would have acted properly without getting peoples backs up, but I take on your advise - consider my head well and truly below the parapet!
Hope to see everybody on the line and in the crew room - and as bleed air has said everybody we have come into contact with at flybe has been fantastic - and long may that continue!!
JP
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jarjam
jarjam, flybe advertised in the local Belfast paper two weeks ago for FO and Captains. Of-course once again my updated cv was forwarded. (2000 multi hours and over 4000 hours in total). But no word as of yet. However, I am one of the over thirty guys. I can work my ass into the ground as hard as anyone else, but my CV seems to be destined to stay in the file collecting dust.
Last edited by howsurflight; 3rd Feb 2005 at 23:12.
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Interesting.
1. Why all the resignations?
2. Why don't flybe hire some more mature pilots also - mid 30s- who might be less likely to leave so quickly? Is it a problem having a 25 year old captain and 35 year old FO?? (happens in other industies)
3. Will flybe not soon have a very inexperienced and not highly skilled pool of pilots?
4. What about their promotion rule if once a captain then always a captain, Q800 captain straight-away becoming a B146 captain, someone tried to explain it to me once but I can't really get my head around it...! Sounds a bit precarious?
Regards and all the best
767bill
1. Why all the resignations?
2. Why don't flybe hire some more mature pilots also - mid 30s- who might be less likely to leave so quickly? Is it a problem having a 25 year old captain and 35 year old FO?? (happens in other industies)
3. Will flybe not soon have a very inexperienced and not highly skilled pool of pilots?
4. What about their promotion rule if once a captain then always a captain, Q800 captain straight-away becoming a B146 captain, someone tried to explain it to me once but I can't really get my head around it...! Sounds a bit precarious?
Regards and all the best
767bill
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BPM - Just checked my seniority list from April 1999, and Stewart is indeed on it, he joined in 1993. My thanks to you and apologies to Stewart.
80ktsboth - Sorry, read your post wrong.
Jockflyer - I echo jarjam's comments, get in touch with Eddie because this does sound a little odd.
767bill - We have been trying to work out the age thing on here for a while now, and to be honest none of us have any idea why these 'older' guys are not getting a look in. There is certainly nothing in any advertising about the 30 - 40 age bracket, and as we all know, such pilots are likely to offer above average loyalty, and as with howsurflight, are damn near a Command, which is a critical area at the moment as jarjam points out.
Who knows, the selectors may have a plan to get all the low-houred guys in quick and onto the 146, and then feed in a few more experienced types onto the DHC8 as training slots pop up.
er82 - You mentioned in your earlier post that the £5k bond the new guys have is still an issue. I think bleed_air answered this one, he said that the £5k is an upfront payment towards the rating, which is over and above the normal £13.5k bond that they have with effect from 31st Jan 05. Putting 2 & 2 together, this should go towards compensating the guys held back on the DHC8, which sounds a reasonable deal....ish.
80ktsboth - Sorry, read your post wrong.
Jockflyer - I echo jarjam's comments, get in touch with Eddie because this does sound a little odd.
767bill - We have been trying to work out the age thing on here for a while now, and to be honest none of us have any idea why these 'older' guys are not getting a look in. There is certainly nothing in any advertising about the 30 - 40 age bracket, and as we all know, such pilots are likely to offer above average loyalty, and as with howsurflight, are damn near a Command, which is a critical area at the moment as jarjam points out.
Who knows, the selectors may have a plan to get all the low-houred guys in quick and onto the 146, and then feed in a few more experienced types onto the DHC8 as training slots pop up.
er82 - You mentioned in your earlier post that the £5k bond the new guys have is still an issue. I think bleed_air answered this one, he said that the £5k is an upfront payment towards the rating, which is over and above the normal £13.5k bond that they have with effect from 31st Jan 05. Putting 2 & 2 together, this should go towards compensating the guys held back on the DHC8, which sounds a reasonable deal....ish.
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My personal experience suggests that Flybe are doing something to address what is (I guess) a demographic age problem (and the spin-off loyalty issues). I’m 38, with relatively low experience and I’ve been successful in the interview and I was told on completion of the sim ride that I’d passed it, (although that was a week ago and I haven’t received any official notification yet, neither email, snail-mail nor phone – but that’s a separate issue). So attitudes regarding age may be changing.
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Its a funny old game, I spoke with Don Darby two months ago and he quite categorically said that if you are over 35 then you do not fit the flybe recruitment criteria, although I have seen evidence recently of people over 40 being offered interviews. Although I can understand to a degree that younger pilots present a lower training risk, is this really advantageous when most of these pilots are destined to move up the ladder in a short time i.e the bonding period. I know of several old git pilots like myself who would be happy to make a long term career out of working for the likes of flybe, but sadly will never be given the chance.
The Dash 8 sucks anyway!
cheers
MJR
The Dash 8 sucks anyway!
cheers
MJR
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I have also sent my cv in a few times but have heard nothing back. In my early thirties have around 3000 hrs with 2500 pic all air transport and a good mix including turbine. Would be looking to stick around long term if they gave me the chance.
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MJR - Bitter?!?!?!
flybe.com - yes, i know the new guys are being bonded for £13000. but look at it this way. tehy will join the company, paying £5000 up-front for a 146 type-rating. They will also start paying off their bond straight away.
In a few months, when they go onto the Dash, the bond (which they have already started paying) will still stand and cover the 'training costs' for the Dash.
In X years when the time finally comes round for them to move back onto the 146, they will not have to start a new bond, but will be given all re-current training as necessary.
So adding up the figures, they'll get 2 type-ratings for £18000.
Now take one of the FO's waiting to get on the jet. Whilst they're waiting, they're still paying off the £13000 bond they have on the dash (or £9000 if they started however long ago before it got changed). When they finally get on the jet, they will then be asked to re-bond for another £13000 to cover the 146 rating.
For someone who was on a £9000 bond - Total = £22000
For someone who was on the £13000 bond - Total = £26000
Big difference in the numbers!
I know of a few, who if given the choice, would pay the £5000 upfront when they finally get on the jet, or indeed take on a bond for just one year at a cost of £5000.
flybe.com - yes, i know the new guys are being bonded for £13000. but look at it this way. tehy will join the company, paying £5000 up-front for a 146 type-rating. They will also start paying off their bond straight away.
In a few months, when they go onto the Dash, the bond (which they have already started paying) will still stand and cover the 'training costs' for the Dash.
In X years when the time finally comes round for them to move back onto the 146, they will not have to start a new bond, but will be given all re-current training as necessary.
So adding up the figures, they'll get 2 type-ratings for £18000.
Now take one of the FO's waiting to get on the jet. Whilst they're waiting, they're still paying off the £13000 bond they have on the dash (or £9000 if they started however long ago before it got changed). When they finally get on the jet, they will then be asked to re-bond for another £13000 to cover the 146 rating.
For someone who was on a £9000 bond - Total = £22000
For someone who was on the £13000 bond - Total = £26000
Big difference in the numbers!
I know of a few, who if given the choice, would pay the £5000 upfront when they finally get on the jet, or indeed take on a bond for just one year at a cost of £5000.
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er82;
Don't quote me on this as I cannot remember for the life in me where I have seen it, but I was of the opinion that the guys who have finished a bond on the Dash 8 are only subject to a further £5000 bond for conversion onto the 146?
Or am I losing it?
JP
Don't quote me on this as I cannot remember for the life in me where I have seen it, but I was of the opinion that the guys who have finished a bond on the Dash 8 are only subject to a further £5000 bond for conversion onto the 146?
Or am I losing it?
JP
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er82:
A bond is a bond as I understand it (and I used to have one) and you do not have to pay unless you leave within the period, and then only the amount outstanding depending on how it was defined. So These folk who have already forked over their 50k on basic training are going to stump up another 5 grand of real money they probably don't have, not bond money which is isn't actually paid out of pocket.
If you can afford to buy an SLK320 on your Q400 salary then £5000 probably wouldn't present too much of a problem but those people aren't ever going to see it again no matter how long they work for FlyBe. In fact many will be paying interest on it for some years to come while your bond grows smaller at no cost to yourself.
And spare a thought for those of us who've been very loyal for 4 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop, earning less than you and can't even get a reply from FlyBe.
Perhaps you could be just a little bit gracious?!
A bond is a bond as I understand it (and I used to have one) and you do not have to pay unless you leave within the period, and then only the amount outstanding depending on how it was defined. So These folk who have already forked over their 50k on basic training are going to stump up another 5 grand of real money they probably don't have, not bond money which is isn't actually paid out of pocket.
If you can afford to buy an SLK320 on your Q400 salary then £5000 probably wouldn't present too much of a problem but those people aren't ever going to see it again no matter how long they work for FlyBe. In fact many will be paying interest on it for some years to come while your bond grows smaller at no cost to yourself.
And spare a thought for those of us who've been very loyal for 4 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop, earning less than you and can't even get a reply from FlyBe.
Perhaps you could be just a little bit gracious?!