I will NOT pay for a T/R
Join Date: Jan 2000
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I would like to drive a Porsche 911, but guess what, I don't!! Why? Because I can't afford one, and I don't go telling the world how p!ssed off I am about it!
We all have our own views on self-funded type ratings with airlines making us pay, and whether it is right or wrong, it is fact so live with it!
I was offered a job with a big airline on a big shiny jet with very low hours. The catch? I had to pay for my rating!!!! At the time nobody else was banging my door down screaming "please come and fly for us" so I was left with little choice. And do you know what? It was a worthwhile investment because my career was furthered no end and now I get paid well, do a job I love and find interesting, and as it happens I do fly with beautiful women to!!
Now every job has its faults but I never got into this game without knowing the facts first! Skyman, I am sure you were well aware of how much it was going to cost before you started, and how it is not easy getting a job.
I don't know about you but I was certain from the start that it was going to be a long hard road, and I was also sure I would not become a millionaire flying for an airline. Had I wanted that, I would have invested my money elsewhere!
I sympathise with your situation, but trying to discourage everybody else and ranting to the world how crap it all is will not make it any better. Instead, spend your time on your PC writing letters and CV's, it may be more productive!
Regards
We all have our own views on self-funded type ratings with airlines making us pay, and whether it is right or wrong, it is fact so live with it!
I was offered a job with a big airline on a big shiny jet with very low hours. The catch? I had to pay for my rating!!!! At the time nobody else was banging my door down screaming "please come and fly for us" so I was left with little choice. And do you know what? It was a worthwhile investment because my career was furthered no end and now I get paid well, do a job I love and find interesting, and as it happens I do fly with beautiful women to!!
Now every job has its faults but I never got into this game without knowing the facts first! Skyman, I am sure you were well aware of how much it was going to cost before you started, and how it is not easy getting a job. I don't know about you but I was certain from the start that it was going to be a long hard road, and I was also sure I would not become a millionaire flying for an airline. Had I wanted that, I would have invested my money elsewhere!
I sympathise with your situation, but trying to discourage everybody else and ranting to the world how crap it all is will not make it any better. Instead, spend your time on your PC writing letters and CV's, it may be more productive!
Regards
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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oh please busbar, do not be a simple mind.
most of us can not even fly small planes and make money.
at least with my driver license, I can drive a car...maybe not a Porshe, ...
with my CAA license I can not even find a job...why the CAA gives license if there are no job at the end???
...."WHAT? NO JOB, NOWAY DUDE!, LOOK ! I KNOW A GUY WHO GET A JOB WITH ...."
yea, yea, yea....!!! in your dreams boy!!!
most of us can not even fly small planes and make money.
at least with my driver license, I can drive a car...maybe not a Porshe, ...
with my CAA license I can not even find a job...why the CAA gives license if there are no job at the end???
...."WHAT? NO JOB, NOWAY DUDE!, LOOK ! I KNOW A GUY WHO GET A JOB WITH ...."
yea, yea, yea....!!! in your dreams boy!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I cant afford a type-rating.....drat poo..and double poo, but the good news is..Ive got a job, ok its turbo-props, but where I come from turbo-props havent even arrived yet. To all those who can afford..scrape..beg..steal..borrow the money...its a free country.
What about the bigger picture however?......what happens when you tire of your shiney 737..A320 etc...and want to move onto something a bit bigger? are you going to stump the cash to move up the next level?...mayby another 20-30k for that next big shiney jet?....and what about line checks..recurrency etc.....remember what you chaps have done is set a presedent(ok I cant spell it
)...but what happens then? are you going to pay for that too?
And Phileas do you honestly believe that the accountants...finance companies..or CEO's wont see the opportunity to generate savings this way as well?
I only say this as I have yet to have a self sponsered person come on here answer these questions in any coherent sense....I suspect that the majority of SSTR come down to plain old greed. Greed in the sense of not wanting to graft (ok yes Im sure you may have grafted for the cash..im not disputing that)..but more in a sense of learning your profession..growing as an aviator..climbing the pyramid and more than anything else....gaining experience, an aprentiship(more bad spelling) if you will.
In the end everyone will lose out......those of you flying about in your shiney jets servicing your debts.....remember that you are really just pushing forward the thin end of the wedge.
As for me.....I was bonded for a set period..was happy to do so..as this was a measure of my self-worth, and a fair and equitable result.
SSTR's are ruining the industry...they have not..and will not in my opinion be nothing more than a shortcut for those who have the financial strength to ride roughshot over their peers.
Finally and unlike Skyman......I dont have any axe to grind, I recognise that many people are desperate for that first job..but we have to be realistic, pragmatic and dedicated. To busbar this comment is directed at you...simply throwing money at the problem is not the answer it never has been..and never will be.
Cheers
H
What about the bigger picture however?......what happens when you tire of your shiney 737..A320 etc...and want to move onto something a bit bigger? are you going to stump the cash to move up the next level?...mayby another 20-30k for that next big shiney jet?....and what about line checks..recurrency etc.....remember what you chaps have done is set a presedent(ok I cant spell it
)...but what happens then? are you going to pay for that too? And Phileas do you honestly believe that the accountants...finance companies..or CEO's wont see the opportunity to generate savings this way as well?
I only say this as I have yet to have a self sponsered person come on here answer these questions in any coherent sense....I suspect that the majority of SSTR come down to plain old greed. Greed in the sense of not wanting to graft (ok yes Im sure you may have grafted for the cash..im not disputing that)..but more in a sense of learning your profession..growing as an aviator..climbing the pyramid and more than anything else....gaining experience, an aprentiship(more bad spelling) if you will.
In the end everyone will lose out......those of you flying about in your shiney jets servicing your debts.....remember that you are really just pushing forward the thin end of the wedge.
As for me.....I was bonded for a set period..was happy to do so..as this was a measure of my self-worth, and a fair and equitable result.
SSTR's are ruining the industry...they have not..and will not in my opinion be nothing more than a shortcut for those who have the financial strength to ride roughshot over their peers.
Finally and unlike Skyman......I dont have any axe to grind, I recognise that many people are desperate for that first job..but we have to be realistic, pragmatic and dedicated. To busbar this comment is directed at you...simply throwing money at the problem is not the answer it never has been..and never will be.
Cheers
H
Join Date: Aug 2000
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skyman68 - without wishing to appear xenophobic.... what with your whinging "the world owes me a living" and "it ain't fair" naive attitude, one suspects you're either from Belgium, or Swiss - so which is is it ?
Veritably it's all as per the saying, i.e. 'sh1t happens !'... it just happens to be happening to you ( along with many hundreds of others too ). Yep, it's just a shame you weren't smart enough to realise the risks of what your were getting into, i.e. aviation wise, before you spent the money, eh ?!
Aside - might I add my appologies to all the hard working realists from the two afformentioned countries.
Veritably it's all as per the saying, i.e. 'sh1t happens !'... it just happens to be happening to you ( along with many hundreds of others too ). Yep, it's just a shame you weren't smart enough to realise the risks of what your were getting into, i.e. aviation wise, before you spent the money, eh ?!
Aside - might I add my appologies to all the hard working realists from the two afformentioned countries.
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why the CAA gives license if there are no job at the end
As for
not be a simple mind
1. There are no jobs flying aeroplanes in the UK
2. There certainly are no jobs where they will employ you without a type rating.
3. Everyone who says they know someone who has been employed recently is a liar.
4. The industry is treating you badly.
You swing from berating everyone to playing the wounded puppy and even say
Believe me, I do not like to moan on the internet
Good luck, which of course comes to those who seek it out.
PP
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Well said Pete...............(god I hate earlys I can never sleep..now im posting on here again!!!)
Im interested if anyone wants to pick up on any of the points Ive raised....we are all having a go at skyman (and rightly so) but have we here lost sight of the fact that SSTR's could well be the ruination of our industry.. our t's & C's..not to mention prospects for future employment?...again just a thought..anyone wanting to mount a sound. coherent, and reasoned argument against this..?
H
Im interested if anyone wants to pick up on any of the points Ive raised....we are all having a go at skyman (and rightly so) but have we here lost sight of the fact that SSTR's could well be the ruination of our industry.. our t's & C's..not to mention prospects for future employment?...again just a thought..anyone wanting to mount a sound. coherent, and reasoned argument against this..?
H
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Haughtney1
I suspect you won't get a coherent answer about SSTR's. Unless someone who has done one wants to chorently explain why they want to contribute towards towards lowering the T's & C's bar for everyone (including themselves). As you said in previous post but one, and rather coherently too I might add, these idiots don't seem to realise that once one starts funding initial ratings it's a slippery slope and that the better job they seem see as the Holy Grail, post selling the soul to O'Leary et al, will probably not materialise due to their actions.
I suspect you won't get a coherent answer about SSTR's. Unless someone who has done one wants to chorently explain why they want to contribute towards towards lowering the T's & C's bar for everyone (including themselves). As you said in previous post but one, and rather coherently too I might add, these idiots don't seem to realise that once one starts funding initial ratings it's a slippery slope and that the better job they seem see as the Holy Grail, post selling the soul to O'Leary et al, will probably not materialise due to their actions.
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Buying a Type Rating is about one thing. Selling a product, and that product is you.
There are probably 100 Guys qualified for every Airline Job available and in order to market yourself in a way that puts you ahead of the other 99 then a type rating is a bloody good idea.
When I placed a £5k advert in yellow pages for my business I didn't stop to think about the other business's not getting work because they couldn't afford an advert like mine. I certainly didn't think I was affecting the industry.
When I paid £23k for my Airbus rating, it was a calculated risk that I was prepared to take. It paid off for me and I would not encourage people to take a loan for this purpose but if you are in a position to make yourself a more attractive proposition for an Airline by having their type on your licence then I say go ahead and don't feel guilty about the others because in this industry you have to look after yourself and your family.
If this is your dream job then go get it, whatever way you can!!!
There are too many people commenting on this subject who were lucky enough to get jobs with low hours, think about how you would feel if you only ever wanted to fly for a living, you have a Frozen ATPL but after several years you still haven’t got a job. Its time to make a decision, Give up the dream or Gamble on a better life. It’s a nasty situation but we are all adults and life is about risks.
There are probably 100 Guys qualified for every Airline Job available and in order to market yourself in a way that puts you ahead of the other 99 then a type rating is a bloody good idea.
When I placed a £5k advert in yellow pages for my business I didn't stop to think about the other business's not getting work because they couldn't afford an advert like mine. I certainly didn't think I was affecting the industry.
When I paid £23k for my Airbus rating, it was a calculated risk that I was prepared to take. It paid off for me and I would not encourage people to take a loan for this purpose but if you are in a position to make yourself a more attractive proposition for an Airline by having their type on your licence then I say go ahead and don't feel guilty about the others because in this industry you have to look after yourself and your family.
If this is your dream job then go get it, whatever way you can!!!
There are too many people commenting on this subject who were lucky enough to get jobs with low hours, think about how you would feel if you only ever wanted to fly for a living, you have a Frozen ATPL but after several years you still haven’t got a job. Its time to make a decision, Give up the dream or Gamble on a better life. It’s a nasty situation but we are all adults and life is about risks.
