Airlines looking for pilots.
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Really?............
BTW must agree with Kaptin M, the job is going down hill fast.
Now, not wanting to start a BALPA bashing.....How come the TGWU can get a deal for its underground drivers of more £ & a four day 32 hour week. While we see our T&C get worse & worse?..........
(& I am a BALPA member!)
BTW must agree with Kaptin M, the job is going down hill fast.
Now, not wanting to start a BALPA bashing.....How come the TGWU can get a deal for its underground drivers of more £ & a four day 32 hour week. While we see our T&C get worse & worse?..........
(& I am a BALPA member!)
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aagg you seem to be duplicating your posts on different threads?
I do love the attempt to wind people up with the old classics "Glorified bus driver" and "every day is a holiday"
I am sure no one will rise to you crude attempt to annoy them as obviously you are to ignorant to care or understand the difficulty’s that people encounter in all aspects of what you perceive as being the worlds best job.
I would suggest you get to know some pilots so you can then better understand.
I am sure then your comments would be better received?
I do love the attempt to wind people up with the old classics "Glorified bus driver" and "every day is a holiday"
I am sure no one will rise to you crude attempt to annoy them as obviously you are to ignorant to care or understand the difficulty’s that people encounter in all aspects of what you perceive as being the worlds best job.
I would suggest you get to know some pilots so you can then better understand.
I am sure then your comments would be better received?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Quite rightly aagg - it`s an insult to bus drivers to compare them to pilots.
Bus drivers enjoy far better conditions than many pilots eg. loadings for working on public holidays/week-ends/night time, extra money for overtime, no charge for "endorsements", not having to wait for late/no show pax.....
Back to subject - I see that Flight International reports that one of the Chinese airlines is going to recruit foreign pilots for the first time in their history.
Airlines looking for pilots - sure makes a nice change from "pilots looking for airlines"!
Bus drivers enjoy far better conditions than many pilots eg. loadings for working on public holidays/week-ends/night time, extra money for overtime, no charge for "endorsements", not having to wait for late/no show pax.....
Back to subject - I see that Flight International reports that one of the Chinese airlines is going to recruit foreign pilots for the first time in their history.
Airlines looking for pilots - sure makes a nice change from "pilots looking for airlines"!
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Kaptin M,
I hope you were joking when you said our T&C's are better than many pilots... Maybe in your neck of the woods, but not here. With top end of £12 per hour, my job is for only two types;
Those (like me) who are working to further ambitions..
And those with no ambition.
Careerwise it's the pits, all of it, T&C's, management, everyone thinks your scum because you drive a bus, including management!!
Sound familiar???
OTB
I hope you were joking when you said our T&C's are better than many pilots... Maybe in your neck of the woods, but not here. With top end of £12 per hour, my job is for only two types;
Those (like me) who are working to further ambitions..
And those with no ambition.
Careerwise it's the pits, all of it, T&C's, management, everyone thinks your scum because you drive a bus, including management!!
Sound familiar???
OTB
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So, aagg, are you just basing your opinions on 1970's stereotypes, or do you really think spending Christmas Eve in a Holiday Inn Express with a closed bar, closed restaurant and noisy corridors, away from your family, is really that great?
You clearly have no idea of the working conditions, pressures and responsiblities of the modern pilot, so perhaps you might find out before posting such a remark.
You clearly have no idea of the working conditions, pressures and responsiblities of the modern pilot, so perhaps you might find out before posting such a remark.
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Well folks, this is PPRUNE nowadays:
It did started supposedly to allow professional pilots to have serious discussion about problems affecting their profession, and nowadays it is an open door to ANYONE .
Some frustrated individuals in their majority barely capable to drive a small car, acting as “aviation expertise” telling us how good is our life, and how spoiled we are!
A Babel tower, full of i***s who think that they have a lot of knowledge about Professional Aviators lives.
They do think that anyone capable to manage Microsoft Flight Simulator is capable to fly an aeroplane.
“What’s the big deal?
It is just a matter to seat and push some buttons, piece of cake isn’t? “
To quote aagg:
“And how high would your aeroplanes get off the ground if the check-in staff where not there, or the engineers did not sign out the aircraft, or the marketing department did not sell tickets, or the baggage handlers did not load the aircraft? I should not mention the words, "glorified bus drivers" ? Sorry!!
You are just part of a team and part of a huge company. “
Well it seems that you are one of those terribly frustrated with your position within your company.
And you also think that it is terribly unfair for you to work were you work, because in your sick mind you think that those spoiled guys raking huge salaries without knowing from were their salaries are paid, are unfairly getting the benefits and appreciation, isn’t?
Well aagg, I can clarify how things really work in Professional Aviation.
There are several departments on the organization ,this is truth.
Marketing, Sales, Engineers, loaders, etc.
However, there is only one Department and group of people, who is in charge of the FINAL LINE OF PRODUCTION, and these are the pilots!
Those spoiled guys in your distorted point of view and mind, who place their entire lives and family future every six months in a Licence renewal process.
Those spoiled guys, who have to study and attend courses continuously to ensure that they will have further six months of employment.
Those spoiled and rich guys who have to spend countless nights away from family meanwhile their families, friends, children and wife blow candles, spend Christmas or New Year eve without them being present.
Those unfairly rich guys who do their utmost to deliver the ship and everybody safe to their destinations, regardless time in the day, or night.
These are the people responsible for the success of any airline in the planet, because simply they are the FINAL LINE OF PRODUCTION.
Pilots are those who ensure and highly contribute for their airlines profits, not people like you with your kind of mentality.
You can have the best airline team in the world, however if you do not have PILOTS
(You know, those rich and spoiled guys) you can not fly the aircraft, so then no profit no money.
Therefore, the aircraft will go nowhere without pilots, and crew.
I am sure from now on; you will be one more of those enthusiastic campaigners for Pilot less aircraft.
In addition, regarding about “certain entrepreneurs” in aviation, it would be better for you to do some serious research about, before praising them, you may get deeply surprised the “techniques” they use to make their fortunes.
End to the quote:
As a last one, I just have to wait to be reprimanded by the moderators of this thread for my language.
Mercurius
It did started supposedly to allow professional pilots to have serious discussion about problems affecting their profession, and nowadays it is an open door to ANYONE .
Some frustrated individuals in their majority barely capable to drive a small car, acting as “aviation expertise” telling us how good is our life, and how spoiled we are!
A Babel tower, full of i***s who think that they have a lot of knowledge about Professional Aviators lives.
They do think that anyone capable to manage Microsoft Flight Simulator is capable to fly an aeroplane.
“What’s the big deal?
It is just a matter to seat and push some buttons, piece of cake isn’t? “
To quote aagg:
“And how high would your aeroplanes get off the ground if the check-in staff where not there, or the engineers did not sign out the aircraft, or the marketing department did not sell tickets, or the baggage handlers did not load the aircraft? I should not mention the words, "glorified bus drivers" ? Sorry!!
You are just part of a team and part of a huge company. “
Well it seems that you are one of those terribly frustrated with your position within your company.
And you also think that it is terribly unfair for you to work were you work, because in your sick mind you think that those spoiled guys raking huge salaries without knowing from were their salaries are paid, are unfairly getting the benefits and appreciation, isn’t?
Well aagg, I can clarify how things really work in Professional Aviation.
There are several departments on the organization ,this is truth.
Marketing, Sales, Engineers, loaders, etc.
However, there is only one Department and group of people, who is in charge of the FINAL LINE OF PRODUCTION, and these are the pilots!
Those spoiled guys in your distorted point of view and mind, who place their entire lives and family future every six months in a Licence renewal process.
Those spoiled guys, who have to study and attend courses continuously to ensure that they will have further six months of employment.
Those spoiled and rich guys who have to spend countless nights away from family meanwhile their families, friends, children and wife blow candles, spend Christmas or New Year eve without them being present.
Those unfairly rich guys who do their utmost to deliver the ship and everybody safe to their destinations, regardless time in the day, or night.
These are the people responsible for the success of any airline in the planet, because simply they are the FINAL LINE OF PRODUCTION.
Pilots are those who ensure and highly contribute for their airlines profits, not people like you with your kind of mentality.
You can have the best airline team in the world, however if you do not have PILOTS
(You know, those rich and spoiled guys) you can not fly the aircraft, so then no profit no money.
Therefore, the aircraft will go nowhere without pilots, and crew.
I am sure from now on; you will be one more of those enthusiastic campaigners for Pilot less aircraft.
In addition, regarding about “certain entrepreneurs” in aviation, it would be better for you to do some serious research about, before praising them, you may get deeply surprised the “techniques” they use to make their fortunes.
End to the quote:
As a last one, I just have to wait to be reprimanded by the moderators of this thread for my language.
Mercurius
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Some valid points Capt M but I reckon we need to also remember that although we as pilots (or trainee pilots in my case) are the last link in the 'supply chain', there are others that are also working hard to ensure we get bums on seats, making sure the aircraft isn't tech, making sure there are crew for the flight etc... If they don't do their job properly then we can't do ours...in that sense we're all equally important in the supply chain, ideally working towards a common goal.
No I'm not airline management. Yes I work for an airline and yes I am training to join the pilot fraternity.
RichC
No I'm not airline management. Yes I work for an airline and yes I am training to join the pilot fraternity.
RichC
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waste of time!
Oh, my God!
I can´t believe how could some fellows be so naive to give attention to b......t producers like aagg. He´s probably LOL on thinking - " how I pissed off those pilots!"...
C´m on guys, lets simply ignore idiots like this and make good use of this wonderful space!...
cheers
I can´t believe how could some fellows be so naive to give attention to b......t producers like aagg. He´s probably LOL on thinking - " how I pissed off those pilots!"...
C´m on guys, lets simply ignore idiots like this and make good use of this wonderful space!...
cheers
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Well, I agree that a pilot is not a bus driver, and that you have to expect to walk out from a simulator for the last time every six months (something I experienced myself!). But all those individuals among us who ever had a good job with some degree of responsability outside the cockpit, all those who didn't just jump off the school into flight training, we all know: Life in the daily battle of the free market forces is at least as hard, pay is seldome higher and working conditions are much harder for sure. The only advantage of a white collar worker is that often he will not suffer from the error he is creating, he will just be fired, but he will survive.
Dani, airline pilot
Dani, airline pilot
Captain Mercurius, agree 100%!
Reminds me of an occasion a long while ago at a staff meeting for a leading charter airline where another element of the work force were complaining about the fact that pilots got yearly increments and they didn't.
The Managing Director (who was very respected by all) said, "It's quite simple - if you want pilot's pay then go and become a pilot".
Silence followed!
Reminds me of an occasion a long while ago at a staff meeting for a leading charter airline where another element of the work force were complaining about the fact that pilots got yearly increments and they didn't.
The Managing Director (who was very respected by all) said, "It's quite simple - if you want pilot's pay then go and become a pilot".
Silence followed!
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what a beautiful flight again last evening, a very nice visual approach with a short final and a smooth and gentle landing, followed by a short hop to another island , where the 1 st officer made a rather ferm landing.
Looked around prepared for the return flight , including the pax figures , baggage weight , notams , fuel , weather , route , take off performance- with the ambient wind , temperature , air pressure , weight, runway length , speeds and thrust , special passengers , local rules etcetera.
A nice return flight avoiding the thunderstorms, delaying descent , to avoid the thunderstorms underneath us right then, followed by a steeper descent and a nice approach and landing by the 1 st officer who was still a bit "pissed"by his landing before... gentle braking the 83 tons landing weight from 135 knots down to taxi speed...
And on the bus back to the car park , saying hello to the bus driver and getting a nice reply from him....
We respect each other in one's job, that's normal isn't it ?
Cheers , Endeavour
Looked around prepared for the return flight , including the pax figures , baggage weight , notams , fuel , weather , route , take off performance- with the ambient wind , temperature , air pressure , weight, runway length , speeds and thrust , special passengers , local rules etcetera.
A nice return flight avoiding the thunderstorms, delaying descent , to avoid the thunderstorms underneath us right then, followed by a steeper descent and a nice approach and landing by the 1 st officer who was still a bit "pissed"by his landing before... gentle braking the 83 tons landing weight from 135 knots down to taxi speed...
And on the bus back to the car park , saying hello to the bus driver and getting a nice reply from him....
We respect each other in one's job, that's normal isn't it ?
Cheers , Endeavour
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Sorry fellow professionals, this post is not entirely appropriate for the title of this thread.
However:
Aagg
I cannot resist replying to your ignorant, immature, provocative post.
We sit 7 miles up in the sky, often many hours away from a suitable airport, responsible for Millions dollars and hundreds of lives.
In the blink of an eye, any number of failures or climatic events, perhaps a combination of both, can mean those lives and the aircraft are in jeopardy.
Our expertise and experience is what we are paid for ! Simple as that !
Meanwhile, the Engineers, baggage handlers, check-in staff and ticket sellers ( whose job, I couldn’t agree more, is crucially important in a successful & efficient Airline ) are at home having a nice cup of tea with the wife and kids.
Unless you’ve been there and done it, you simply have no clue !
However:
Aagg
I cannot resist replying to your ignorant, immature, provocative post.
We sit 7 miles up in the sky, often many hours away from a suitable airport, responsible for Millions dollars and hundreds of lives.
In the blink of an eye, any number of failures or climatic events, perhaps a combination of both, can mean those lives and the aircraft are in jeopardy.
Our expertise and experience is what we are paid for ! Simple as that !
Meanwhile, the Engineers, baggage handlers, check-in staff and ticket sellers ( whose job, I couldn’t agree more, is crucially important in a successful & efficient Airline ) are at home having a nice cup of tea with the wife and kids.
Unless you’ve been there and done it, you simply have no clue !
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One of the best instructors I had told me once: There are two kinds of people in the airline industry. Those who are pilots, and those who want to be pilots..... Although I am sure there are many people who enjoy their jobs in all industries, it does have some truth to it...
AAG, let me clarify something. Management decides where I fly the airplane, and the marketing and sales people make sure it does get filled. The other lovely people in the organization make sure everything runs smoothly, and the engineers make sure I have a good flying machine to take the paying passengers around. We upfront take them safely and efficiently to their friends and family, to their loved ones or to their job. We do that day and night, raining or sunshine.
Flying is a profession that requires a high degree of skill, inteligence and most of all responsibilty. It requires decisions now, and not tomorrow, or after a meeting, and a working group. Everyone else in the airline can get it wrong, but not us. We cannot get things done in our time, but in the time dictated by the situation we are in. We are in crisis management everyday and although I do enjoy what I do, I do not see the reason not to get paid well for it either, especialy since it takes alot of energy and effort on my part, not just when I am working, but most of my everyday life.
The people I see working however on the other side of the desk, do not seem to me to be puting the amount of effort, time, money, and skill to deserve the money we make upfront.
It is a free country, and if you think you deserve more, then leave your present job, go to the bank and ask for 120000 pounds, and come and join us.
AAG, let me clarify something. Management decides where I fly the airplane, and the marketing and sales people make sure it does get filled. The other lovely people in the organization make sure everything runs smoothly, and the engineers make sure I have a good flying machine to take the paying passengers around. We upfront take them safely and efficiently to their friends and family, to their loved ones or to their job. We do that day and night, raining or sunshine.
Flying is a profession that requires a high degree of skill, inteligence and most of all responsibilty. It requires decisions now, and not tomorrow, or after a meeting, and a working group. Everyone else in the airline can get it wrong, but not us. We cannot get things done in our time, but in the time dictated by the situation we are in. We are in crisis management everyday and although I do enjoy what I do, I do not see the reason not to get paid well for it either, especialy since it takes alot of energy and effort on my part, not just when I am working, but most of my everyday life.
The people I see working however on the other side of the desk, do not seem to me to be puting the amount of effort, time, money, and skill to deserve the money we make upfront.
It is a free country, and if you think you deserve more, then leave your present job, go to the bank and ask for 120000 pounds, and come and join us.