University before flying?

[oli carley]

Hey all,

Im currently studying for my a levels (results in august) and have already applied for university for several different aviation related courses, also have a ppl which is just used for bombing around the country at the mo, maybe helpful in the future? I have applied as a sort of back up if i do decide to go because i am still unsure of whether i want to go. University does not really appeal, much rather get on with the flying training. Just wanting to know whether a degree (in aviation) is required in anyway for the airlines or is it just slightly helpful?

What would your advice be for me, earing in mind id rather get on with the flying and not bother with uni?

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Ol

[FlyUK]

Oli, i'm currently in exactly the same position. Although with a family background in aviation and a similar 'lack of intrest' for uni i have decided to follow the flying training without a degree. Its a big risk, a large ammount of cash, and with no job gaurentee at the end......
But at the end of the day, this is what i really want to do and hopefully that will come across in the interview i have next week when i do an entrance interview and apptitude tests.
Will let you know how i get on and where it is after the interview.

Expedite.

[redsnail]

If you don't want to go to uni then don't. Don't waste your and their time. A recent survey has shown however that there is a shortage of skilled workers. You know, people who build stuff. If I were you, a back up skill/trade is a bloody good idea. What about a trade in aviation related engineering areas? I have never seen an unemployed A&E guy, black hander, etc. Don't fancy that? What about plumbing or electrician? You need to have your smarts about you to be a sparky. Best thing is you can keep that qualification going long after you start flying. Houses always need wiring up or plumbed. Just imagine how useful you'll be at renovating your or your mate's house.
A degree isn't a bad thing but it may not be the appropriate thing.

[rhmaddever]

Oli,

I am also in the same position but my situation is slightly different, I am studying A levels at present, and have no intention to go to university.
I have been working towards my PPL(H), and like you I am worried by the prospect of no job after training.

I am 'Sticking to my guns' over not going to Uni but need to know what I am going to do after the summer.


I have always wanted to work towards my commercial licence for helicopter but now this looks a dangerous path. I have realised that the fixed wing world is simialr - lots of money and no guarantee of a job at the end.

It would be interesting to know how you get on!

Rich

[In Flight Shut Down]

back to the future ( well 1997 )

I was in your position 7 years ago, i.e. doing my 'A' levels, got my PPL and was wondering which path to take


ask yourself this "in the event that i do not become an airline pilot, what else would i want to do for a living for the rest my life instead?"

Persue that 'second favourite' career option (make it a feasible aim, not footballer or porn star for example) but keep focused on that pilot ambition and be ready if and when the opportunity arises.

happy flying

IFSD

[winch launch]

I was in the same position 2 years ago

Hey

I think that my recent experience might interest you. I had the same problem while studying for my french bac (A-levels). On one hand I wanted to start a training I was looking forward to since the age of 2. On the other hand, I was young, and really scared of having no diploma for the future. So I applyed through UCAS for aero engineering, and thought that I would decide later. I got my french "A-levels" and got accepted at the university of bristol for aero eng, which was totally unexpected. I thought I would be stupid to refuse this place and just went for it. After two weeks, I was already fed up with it, and as I had recently got my PPL, all I was thinking about was flying. Hopefully I had a great time at uni but after 5 weeks, I was already thinking about droping. But I thought I should at least finish the first part of what I started, and passing first year would be fine to then stop the course. I passed first year, which once again was totally unexpected as my IQ is probably half the one of the people in my course! Under the huge joy of passing, I thought that I should just continue to the bachelor (2 more years).
But the same thing happened again, I got seriously bored of the course again, and was skipping all the time to go gliding. So I realised that there is no point of forcing myself to do something I hate. I wanna do nothing else than flying, and when I wake up in the moorning I wanna tell myself that I am a pilot, wether it s to fly a 747 or to be a C152 instructor (Unfortunatly I know that many ATPL(f) struggle to get some flying because of the curent airline industry situation, and don t think that I am a guy full of illusions that thinks that getting a flying job is easy). On the other hand I surely don t wanna be an engineer (it s just not for me). So I thought that instead of always thinking about my backup plan (engineer) in case I don t make it to professional pilot , I should just do my maximum and concentrate on my dream. So I dropped, which nobody around me could understand, and even saw my parents almost crying when they understood I said NO to a good diploma. But the most important is that I know what I am doing(well I hope so), and right now I am working as an A/G communicator, and started my distance learning ATPL. I have never been so happy about myself and I don t regret anything about my choice. I am making my way through my dream, and everyday, I find myself in an environment that I love. I also don t regret my time at uni, as it helps to mature a lot, and to experience life in an other way. But I guess you can get that with a job too. If you want to have a degree, then do it. It has so many advantages, and can make yourself more attractive to airline eployers. But If you don t feel like it, you might get the same problems as I had.

you decide, and I really don t want to influence you. I might regret my choice if at 40 years old, with a few kids and a wife, I loose my flying job because of terrorism, or for medical resons, or what ever. But there is nothing I can do about it, and forcing myself would have been a waist of time.

Winch (Don t hesitate to PM me for any other questions)

[FlyUK]

Thanks for replies. They really are very useful. Lots to think about and take in.

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey Olli,
Last year I was in the same boat as you. As mentioned, the risk of not getting a job at the end of your ATPL training is quite high. This is why I'd recommend going to university, but go and study something you enjoy, not something that will benefit your application to the airlines etc.

Sounds weird I know, but you don’t need a degree to become an airline pilot. If you do something you enjoy, you will enjoy uni and in turn you will come out with a fall back plan.

I HIGHLY recommend a fallback plan. Just imagine if all that effort and money went into your training and then you were hit by an unforeseen medical problem - you'll be pen pushing or something mediocre.

You say you want to concentrate on further training instead of studying - I'm studying Aviation technology and management studies at Leeds university at the moment along with continuing my PPL flying - It is possible to do both, just work hard for the cash...

Also, don’t be put off by university its absolutely fantastic. Best thing I've been involved in!

At the end of the day though, its your choice and do whatever makes you happy. Just think sensibly about it

Good luck

Ian

[winch launch]

As ian said, I f you do a degre, do something you like, and it s true that uni is really a lot of fun. I chose aero eng rather than something else, despite I used to prefer social sciences at school, because I thought it would make myself more attractive at interviews. But as I said, you can t force yourself to do something you hate.

Otherwise, I really don t think that you can do your theoretical ATPL, and your CPL/IR and uni at the same time. So doing a PPL is fine, but for the rest, it s better to wait for the end of your degree.

It s true that doing a training without a diploma or any qualifications, is a bit of a gamble. But it s also very important to be confident, and not to forget that flying is your priority(That doesn t mean that you have to do like me, or that you shouldn t go to uni). The most important thing is to be motivated. You can be the smartest guy and pass psychometric tests easely, but without motivation, there is no way you make it to the right hand seat of an airliner.

Good luck to you guys. And spend a lot of time making your choice. You must know why you do what. Otherwise, you can t pass the airline interviews.

winch

[rhmaddever]

hey,

I just want to say thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. I am currently doing my A - Levels so have been given alot to think about!

Uni really doesn't look like its for me, and I do not wish to go. But I am concerned about how to progress

Thanks to all the comments so far

Rich

[jamojdm]

I'm currently at uni, in my second year and love the student life!

When else are you going to be able to go off and live with a bunch of people the same age where all u want to do is have fun and party, drink etc etc.

Anyways how did u manage to get PPL's while doing A'levels? I only now have enough money to get my PPL. Guess you either got jobs, or had parents that gave u loads of money.

I do recomend uni, its your last chance really to just not give a f*ck about anything!


Jamo

[FlyUK]

How did i get my ppl? Dad used to to be an instructor so managed to get my ppl completed in the minimum time due to extra groundschool with him. Cash? I was fortunate enough to work as a computer technician for the last 2 summer holidays and save enough to pay for it! No fun holidays for me. Then did the whole course in 21 days in florida! Was excellent. I'm 17 and could until the begining of last month fly a plane before i could drive a car.

Expedite.

[dreamingA380]

Sounds like we were all in the same boat...

I would really recomend uni
A/. a relevent degree goes well with the employers
B/. it is a good back up plan

How about going to a Uni with a university air squadron?... I didnt do it myself but FREE flying cant be bad.

As for me, I did 3 A levels, then took a year out trying to decide what path to take. I really wanted to fly but being born with a wooden spoon rather than a silver one, I had no cash!.... so opted for Uni....
Because of the degree, I got a really good job that easily paid for my flying. I've since jacked that job in to instruct full time and now looking for the first airline break. thankfully my debt is managable largely to my old job.

Good luck with whatever you decide... there is no one right way, else everyone would be doing it. I know airline guys with allsorts of crazy backgrounds!

I suppose, maximise your options and keep you debt managable.
Ciao

[pa28biggles]

oli carley,
I was in your position a couple of years ago too. I pulled my hair out trying to decide what to do. I ended up going to uni.
I've always enjoyed electronics, though I would have loved to have done an Aeronautical Engineering degree. I choose to do the Electronic Engineering sandwich degree because:
1. I could live at home, which is much cheaper.
2. There is a uni within travelling distance that has an excellent Electronics department.
3. I could spend my student loan (a very cheap loan, interest rate equal to inflation ish), part time job and industrial placement earnings on hour building + ground school rather than on accomodation/living expenses.
4. If there is an industry down turn, pilot jobs aren't the only jobs to go. A degree in something non-aviation related meant a better back up plan for me. My friend worked for Rolls Royce at Barnoldswick in Keighley, designing the fan blades to go on the engines of the A380. He was made redundant after Sept 11th.

So when I graduate I will have some of my ATPL exams passed with the money saved to do the rest, and enough PIC hours start the CPL course when ground school is complete. I plan to get a job in Electronics to fund the rest of my training.
I did my PPL whilst studying for my A Levels. I payed for it by working every school holiday and every weekend.

Good luck, think carefully. Your final decision depends on your personnal circumstances. E.g you may not have a good uni within travelling distance, so any degree may mean spending lots of money on living expenses.

[concorde002]

I had a similar choice to make but back in summer 2001!
Completed A-levels, the old traditional ones back then, telephoned the BA recuitment number, for information on pilot application, for obvious reasons never recieved the information.

Contacted my first choice university who still accepted me. Now in my final year and hopefully I will graduate! the university experience teaches you many skills of life which do appear to be an asset to any future employers.

My final year dissertation was based upon the the third runway at heathrow, close proximenty to my uni! This allowed me to meet many different people from various aviation backgrounds, and i was able to study an topic i was intereseted in.

The university route gives you someting to fall back upon, if for example you fail a medical. The three years are the best of your life no responsibility, the alcohol abuse, the social scene and so on!!!! I would recommed going to uni experince an excellent then pursue any aviation careers afterwards. Remember this industry is predicted for contionous growth for many years yet!

If anyone has any other questions feel free to pm me

Best of luck!

[scroggs]

Do not go to university in the vague hope that a degree might impress a future employer. Most especially, do not go and do an 'aviation related' degree in the hope that it might impress an airline - it won't. Especially if you fail that degree because you aren't interested in the subject.

If you harbour an ambition to be an aviation engineer, or if the engineering side of aviation really interests you, then by all means go and do Aeronautical Engineering and enjoy it. Similarly, if the business and operations side of aviation really floats your boat, go and do one of the increasing number of Airline Operations and Commerce type courses. If you have no intention of ever becoming an engineer or an airline accountant or ops controller, why do these courses?

If you really want a degree and flower arranging is your deepest joy, but you want to earn your money flying, go and do a degree in flower arranging and get some flying on the side while you're at Uni (join the UAS). If you've no interest in a degree, don't do one!

However, you should have a backup plan - a way of earning money if flying doesn't work out, or while you're trying to earn the money to learn to fly. Whether it's plumbing or IT, bricklaying or high finance, doesn't matter - get yourself some qualification and experience that will keep the wolf from the door when (and I do mean when) flying won't pay the bills.

Scroggs

[oli carley]

Thanks for all your replies guys, its been very helpful and make me think more than ever!