OXford and Jobs
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quote:
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At least Lofty is a reasonably nice guy, just in the wrong job. I'm sure he means well, but that won't get anybody jobs unfortunately.
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That, in essence, sums up the thread.
He is a nice guy, but he does himself no favours.
As a previous poster said, he is like a politician, who avoids questions and leaves you walking away dazed and confused.
maybe should be re-labelled "career detriment"
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At least Lofty is a reasonably nice guy, just in the wrong job. I'm sure he means well, but that won't get anybody jobs unfortunately.
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That, in essence, sums up the thread.
He is a nice guy, but he does himself no favours.
As a previous poster said, he is like a politician, who avoids questions and leaves you walking away dazed and confused.
maybe should be re-labelled "career detriment"
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Thankfully this thread hasn't turned into another Oxford Bashing excercise and I think that is to its credit now.
Anthony, as posted earlier, has done a great job of pulling it into the next millenium and it really is a modern and efficient place for training and he himself is an approachable and helpful MD.
If you are reading this and are planning on going to one of the APP Seminars take the career presentation with a huge pinch of salt. ALL schools are going to tell you there will be a pilot shortage and they will help get you a job, it's all TOSS.
It's true Oxford have this 'Department', but you only need to have a look round the number of students in the canteen at lunchtime to realise that getting picked out of just Oxford's grads will take some exceptional scores or a lot of luck.
Any career development department would have a tough job getting a good reputation of placing people with the current level of jobs compared to the number of people being pumped out of Oxford every day of the year, let alone the country and Europe. I think there are 2 first time IR's attempts a day just at Oxford.
So just as an epitaph to everything else said here the Career Development Department are just not handling the many of us pumped out well at all and what needs to be remembered is that is our last memory of Oxford and that is the most pertinant and personal aspect of the whole process, and yet it seems it is not being treated as such.
What I want to state, and many others here have done so, is that I was extremely happy with Oxford as a training organisation for my CPL/IR it's just this whole experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, and the fact that people are possibly going to spend 60-70k on the basis they will be helped out by Lofty at the end when there is not ONE confirmed airline signed up to the APP is lunacy. Plus he is pleading for our photos and info to bolster their claims made to these people who are possibly risking their house, wife and family on the basis of their 'promise' when it is us who have gone out there and made it happen and not him with his imaginary 'contacts', I think is criminal especially with the amount of money we are talking about spending here on an Integrated course, which is arguably irrelevant now compared to full time Modular.
Mike's hours have been reduced to part time now, so I hear, so it would be interesting to hear what other people's experiences of the department are without him having such an input.
I am sure there will be a Chief Pilot/Flt Ops Director among Oxford's Graduates in 20 or so years. They need to remember that as they are leaving me slightly annoyed with the place having been so happy there, I might not ever be a chief pilot but I might know one....and that's what it's all about in this business.
Anthony, as posted earlier, has done a great job of pulling it into the next millenium and it really is a modern and efficient place for training and he himself is an approachable and helpful MD.
If you are reading this and are planning on going to one of the APP Seminars take the career presentation with a huge pinch of salt. ALL schools are going to tell you there will be a pilot shortage and they will help get you a job, it's all TOSS.
It's true Oxford have this 'Department', but you only need to have a look round the number of students in the canteen at lunchtime to realise that getting picked out of just Oxford's grads will take some exceptional scores or a lot of luck.
Any career development department would have a tough job getting a good reputation of placing people with the current level of jobs compared to the number of people being pumped out of Oxford every day of the year, let alone the country and Europe. I think there are 2 first time IR's attempts a day just at Oxford.
So just as an epitaph to everything else said here the Career Development Department are just not handling the many of us pumped out well at all and what needs to be remembered is that is our last memory of Oxford and that is the most pertinant and personal aspect of the whole process, and yet it seems it is not being treated as such.
What I want to state, and many others here have done so, is that I was extremely happy with Oxford as a training organisation for my CPL/IR it's just this whole experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, and the fact that people are possibly going to spend 60-70k on the basis they will be helped out by Lofty at the end when there is not ONE confirmed airline signed up to the APP is lunacy. Plus he is pleading for our photos and info to bolster their claims made to these people who are possibly risking their house, wife and family on the basis of their 'promise' when it is us who have gone out there and made it happen and not him with his imaginary 'contacts', I think is criminal especially with the amount of money we are talking about spending here on an Integrated course, which is arguably irrelevant now compared to full time Modular.
Mike's hours have been reduced to part time now, so I hear, so it would be interesting to hear what other people's experiences of the department are without him having such an input.
I am sure there will be a Chief Pilot/Flt Ops Director among Oxford's Graduates in 20 or so years. They need to remember that as they are leaving me slightly annoyed with the place having been so happy there, I might not ever be a chief pilot but I might know one....and that's what it's all about in this business.
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Oxford never changes.
Firstly I'd like to say that Oxford is a great training provider with high standards and good instructors and if I had my time again I would go there again. Unfortunately though, despite what they tell you, Oxford effectively does not have a career department and never really has. It has always amazed me that a company like Oxford who has trained for many major airlines has no contacts in the airlines to help the self sponsored guys, instead they just have some guy who wastes your time.
I was there in '97 and the guy then (same guy as busta level spoke about I think) was totally useless, he told me he would try and arrange an interview for me with Aer Lingus after weeks of waiting and fruitless phone calls to him I decided to approach Aer Lingus direct myself and managed to get my own interview with them, the day after my interview I rang him, he told me he was still trying to get me the interview with Aer Lingus, I told him I'd already had the interview with them no thanks to him he turned angry and accused me of going behind his back and wasting HIS time, he said if I wasnt going to "go through him" what was the point of contacting him. Dam good question mate!, as you can imagine the phone call didnt last much longer.
I see its now Mike Taylor's job to waste peoples time, poor bloke, he's a nice guy when you get talking to him in the pub its just he's let down by the fact he's useless at his job, he should go back to being the Adams Family butler.
My advice for anyone at Oxford now is just do your own thing, dont pin any hopes on Oxford apply to everyone regardless of what they say and dont let them waste your time, I always got the impression that they just wanted the self sponsored guys to go away so ring and hassle Oxford as much as you can, it wont get you anywhere but its good fun to here them squirm and remind them that your still there, you've got nothing to lose.
Good luck everyone.
Firstly I'd like to say that Oxford is a great training provider with high standards and good instructors and if I had my time again I would go there again. Unfortunately though, despite what they tell you, Oxford effectively does not have a career department and never really has. It has always amazed me that a company like Oxford who has trained for many major airlines has no contacts in the airlines to help the self sponsored guys, instead they just have some guy who wastes your time.
I was there in '97 and the guy then (same guy as busta level spoke about I think) was totally useless, he told me he would try and arrange an interview for me with Aer Lingus after weeks of waiting and fruitless phone calls to him I decided to approach Aer Lingus direct myself and managed to get my own interview with them, the day after my interview I rang him, he told me he was still trying to get me the interview with Aer Lingus, I told him I'd already had the interview with them no thanks to him he turned angry and accused me of going behind his back and wasting HIS time, he said if I wasnt going to "go through him" what was the point of contacting him. Dam good question mate!, as you can imagine the phone call didnt last much longer.
I see its now Mike Taylor's job to waste peoples time, poor bloke, he's a nice guy when you get talking to him in the pub its just he's let down by the fact he's useless at his job, he should go back to being the Adams Family butler.
My advice for anyone at Oxford now is just do your own thing, dont pin any hopes on Oxford apply to everyone regardless of what they say and dont let them waste your time, I always got the impression that they just wanted the self sponsored guys to go away so ring and hassle Oxford as much as you can, it wont get you anywhere but its good fun to here them squirm and remind them that your still there, you've got nothing to lose.
Good luck everyone.
Last edited by McCroskey; 2nd Feb 2004 at 20:21.
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The Oxford website states that they have 'recommended students to airlines' so when I was a student there I never made much of a fuss and tried to make a good impression and get a good report. I thought I would take the initiative and go and see Mike Taylor a month or two before finishing and he told me to come back once I had done my IRT. When I did this and tried to sort out my CV with him, my course had obviously finished and I was having to leave Oxford so I was not able to have the one-to-one contact and help that I had envisaged happening.
One time when I met with him, I told him I was a subscriber to Flight International and was keeping informed on the industry so he then asked me what easyJet had just advertised in the previous week's Flight International. I replied that it was their Open Day in Manchester. "And how many pilots did the advert say they were requiring?" I struggled with this question and told him I didn't know exactly. "But you just told me you read Flight International! If you don't know how many pilots they need from the advert then maybe you're not reading it well enough!". Well, I felt very embarrassed and humiliated. How could I have forgotten? He must have thought I was a fool! Well, I was so disturbed by this that I checked when I got home and read the advert again. Guess what? There was absolutely no mention in the advert about the numbers of pilots required! What a
!!
I meant to expain as well that it was made perfectly clear to me when speaking with Mike that they do not recommend students but, in fact, 'filter' students. They should change their marketing pages on their website in that case so that potential customers are not given the impression that they recommend anyone!
One time when I met with him, I told him I was a subscriber to Flight International and was keeping informed on the industry so he then asked me what easyJet had just advertised in the previous week's Flight International. I replied that it was their Open Day in Manchester. "And how many pilots did the advert say they were requiring?" I struggled with this question and told him I didn't know exactly. "But you just told me you read Flight International! If you don't know how many pilots they need from the advert then maybe you're not reading it well enough!". Well, I felt very embarrassed and humiliated. How could I have forgotten? He must have thought I was a fool! Well, I was so disturbed by this that I checked when I got home and read the advert again. Guess what? There was absolutely no mention in the advert about the numbers of pilots required! What a
!!I meant to expain as well that it was made perfectly clear to me when speaking with Mike that they do not recommend students but, in fact, 'filter' students. They should change their marketing pages on their website in that case so that potential customers are not given the impression that they recommend anyone!
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This is phrase and verse from Mike's hallowed text:
.....I remembered this as I was driving to work this morning, sad I know, but another example of the spin that is coming from Mike, since FlyBe have NO 'contract' with Oxford and all their sponsored students are going through CabAir I really think Mike left his head in the clouds on his final flight of fancy with BA, if he has said this to any APP students at a Seminar I would demand to see the so called contract as I am sure that would have swung some decisions.
I am sure lofty hasn't meant any harm but is under pressure to produce results. What he is doing very badly is managing people's expectations and evidently trying to control a process that is ultimately out of his hands. It is essentially playing with people's lives on both sides for those coming in and those going out of Oxford's hallowed doors.
One of the many airlines we are in contact with is flybe and they are actively recruiting and will need up to 100 pilots over the next two or three years and, other than 6 pilots a year they are contracted to take from elsewhere, they are only recruit Oxford graduates. If you wish to apply and meet the following requirements please email Diana attaching your current CV and authorize her to send it, together with your Oxford Report, to flybe; their entry requirements are....
I am sure lofty hasn't meant any harm but is under pressure to produce results. What he is doing very badly is managing people's expectations and evidently trying to control a process that is ultimately out of his hands. It is essentially playing with people's lives on both sides for those coming in and those going out of Oxford's hallowed doors.
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Dear All,
I have read all of the stories on this thread and as most of you recommend oxford for their high standard of training, do you think it is worth training with them for that reason? given the price of the APP, even though their career development seems to be crap.
If not oxford, which other BIG schools would you recommend?
Comments welcome from all
Jam
I have read all of the stories on this thread and as most of you recommend oxford for their high standard of training, do you think it is worth training with them for that reason? given the price of the APP, even though their career development seems to be crap.
If not oxford, which other BIG schools would you recommend?
Comments welcome from all
Jam
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Blah Blah Blah"Oxford havnt got me a Job etc etc etc"
Sorry to be hard but you paid for a FATPL not a job, the license doesnt guarantee a job. Oxford do a good 'SELL' on their product but at the end you are on your own save for a liitle help from them here and there.
Dont rely on Oxford to get you a job, get up knock on doors send CVs, visit companies etc etc, I know people over the 40 mark who have got interviews through sheer persistance and dogmatism.
Oxford give the hard sell now do it for yourself...if something comes though them then all well and good but dont pin your hopes on it. Once you have spent your last penny there they will have spent there last penny on you, ie little help.
As for the GECAT scheme with Ryanair, I havn't heard of a single person that has passed the course NOT getting a job, NOT ONE. Yes the 17K is hard to stomach but thats the way of the industry at the moment Im afraid. Remember that an FO with Ryan after 3 years will be on close to £70K gross (plus nearly 3000 jet hours) and you will be close to command as well, so staring down £85k gross.
The wages generaly are lower if you have a bond vs if you have paid for the rating so you do get your money back!
Sorry to be hard but you paid for a FATPL not a job, the license doesnt guarantee a job. Oxford do a good 'SELL' on their product but at the end you are on your own save for a liitle help from them here and there.
Dont rely on Oxford to get you a job, get up knock on doors send CVs, visit companies etc etc, I know people over the 40 mark who have got interviews through sheer persistance and dogmatism.
Oxford give the hard sell now do it for yourself...if something comes though them then all well and good but dont pin your hopes on it. Once you have spent your last penny there they will have spent there last penny on you, ie little help.
As for the GECAT scheme with Ryanair, I havn't heard of a single person that has passed the course NOT getting a job, NOT ONE. Yes the 17K is hard to stomach but thats the way of the industry at the moment Im afraid. Remember that an FO with Ryan after 3 years will be on close to £70K gross (plus nearly 3000 jet hours) and you will be close to command as well, so staring down £85k gross.
The wages generaly are lower if you have a bond vs if you have paid for the rating so you do get your money back!
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Sorry to be hard but you paid for a FATPL not a job, the license doesnt guarantee a job.
I think the point we are trying to make is that Oxford is actively using the promise of assistance at the end of the course as a marketing tool. Indeed, telling students NOT to apply direct to the airlines! If they can't deliver the service, they should not be marketing it, end of story.
Dont rely on Oxford to get you a job, get up knock on doors send CVs, visit companies etc etc, I know people over the 40 mark who have got interviews through sheer persistance and dogmatism.
Yes the 17K is hard to stomach but thats the way of the industry at the moment Im afraid.
As for
Blah Blah Blah"Oxford havnt got me a Job etc etc etc"
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Oxford is actively using the promise of assistance at the end of the course as a marketing tool
Yes - I think people who have spent £60k to get a licence are smart enough to realise that, and I'm sure that a lot of out of work FATPL's will find your reply just a teensy bit patronising
at least amongst the 'low cost' brigade, but that does not mean people should roll over and expect to have to pay to get the job. How many other industries make you pay to get your qualifications, then make you pay again to operate their equipment to earn THEM money? I suspect there are none.
Dont forget who ever you work for is using you to earn THEM money. That is the way of business.
I was very lucky to get a job, I know that. However in the time I was out of work I travelled all over the country to various head offices, rang hundreds of companies, made databases of all the info that I gained(even posted the information on here) to help other Wannabees. I asked for people to just send me any titbits they had to help YOU ALL with a current and fresh database of jobs/airlines/contacts.....did I get one bit of information back???NO!!!
And as for Blah Blah Blah Oxford etc....I wouldnt blame it on them ...its the way of the industry at the moment and a little research time before embarking on this route would have shown that ...pre a £60K OATS bill. I knew the state of the market when I started and took a huge risk, I also made sure that when I left I worked my ass off to make the most of my chances. Hopefully you are doing that, many dont! The industry has been in the doldrums for years now and was before anyone currently graduating OATS now started.
Last edited by batty; 7th Feb 2004 at 05:45.
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Yo check this
I ave to agree with me main man Busta blood vessel, You reeks of arrogance cussing the posse from your comfy 737.
You has no restecpa for the efforts we all make daily to hotwire one and to get up in those clouds wiv the aviation bruvvas.
Is it coz I is Blah
I certainly aint no Batty lover
I ave to agree with me main man Busta blood vessel, You reeks of arrogance cussing the posse from your comfy 737.
You has no restecpa for the efforts we all make daily to hotwire one and to get up in those clouds wiv the aviation bruvvas.
Is it coz I is Blah
I certainly aint no Batty lover
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Batty
I'm sorry but you are a p k
Did you bother to read the thread before posting a reply?
The bottom line is that OATS should not offer this service if they have no foundation to back it up with. They also post this on their website for poor ba s to think they will be helped in getting a job.
Get out of your right hand seat and remeber what you felt like before you splashed out your 17k to earn....what was it 70k?
Are you sure you didn't just want blow your own trumpet?
Maybe if I look up Mr O'Leary's or Mr. Taylor's arse I'll see you at FL350
Yep, I've just read your posts again Batty and you really are a patronising little S T
Batty is about right for you.... you're completely BATTY
I'm sorry but you are a p
kDid you bother to read the thread before posting a reply?
The bottom line is that OATS should not offer this service if they have no foundation to back it up with. They also post this on their website for poor ba
s to think they will be helped in getting a job.Get out of your right hand seat and remeber what you felt like before you splashed out your 17k to earn....what was it 70k?
Are you sure you didn't just want blow your own trumpet?
Maybe if I look up Mr O'Leary's or Mr. Taylor's arse I'll see you at FL350
Yep, I've just read your posts again Batty and you really are a patronising little S
TBatty is about right for you.... you're completely BATTY
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Dr.Evil 2002
Did you read what I said? OATS do ASSIST, assist infers that you actualy get off your ass and do something as well. Appologies to the guys/gals who have done, this isnt aimed at them but the are always people who think that OATS owes then a job because they paid £60k I didnt pay £17k I was bonded as I state in the post...reading obviously isnt a strong point of yours
You have the gall to post...
or wants some help
when someone asks for some info on an airline, just looking for a way in. I have shared information and tried to help, not just berrated people who ask for help! Grow up!
Enjoy 'Hanging with my homies and my Mini Me' with an attitude like that you will never reach FL350, enjoy the PA28 you will be on it a LONG time. Thank god for small mercies we dont need idiots like you sat next to us for 3 hours at a time
Did you read what I said? OATS do ASSIST, assist infers that you actualy get off your ass and do something as well. Appologies to the guys/gals who have done, this isnt aimed at them but the are always people who think that OATS owes then a job because they paid £60k I didnt pay £17k I was bonded as I state in the post...reading obviously isnt a strong point of yours
You have the gall to post...
Now I dont want to sound rude but for christ sake why dont you get off your lazy arse and find the info out yourself like 99% of us do rather than be a lazy and put a post on here.
There's a whole load of us out there looking for that first/second/ perfect flying job and why the hell should we, who put in a lot of time and effort making contacts, researching airlines, searching the web and all that good stuff then share all that with someone who says " I wanna job"
Enjoy 'Hanging with my homies and my Mini Me' with an attitude like that you will never reach FL350, enjoy the PA28 you will be on it a LONG time. Thank god for small mercies we dont need idiots like you sat next to us for 3 hours at a time
Last edited by batty; 8th Feb 2004 at 19:23.
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Batty
I'm terribly sorry if I offended you. Now I think it's best we stop hurling abuse at each other.
FYI just because I don't talk about how soon I will get a command or how much I earn, If you'd ask nicely I'll tell you who I fly for and when we can play chicken at FL350.
My concern was and is as I did my training at OATS that they do lead you up the garden path somewhat. You seem to think everyone who has posted on here expects to be handed a job. Thats not the case.
As for you researching my other posts...... How did you find the time in between your minimum rest time?
Ciao
I'm terribly sorry if I offended you. Now I think it's best we stop hurling abuse at each other.
FYI just because I don't talk about how soon I will get a command or how much I earn, If you'd ask nicely I'll tell you who I fly for and when we can play chicken at FL350.
My concern was and is as I did my training at OATS that they do lead you up the garden path somewhat. You seem to think everyone who has posted on here expects to be handed a job. Thats not the case.
As for you researching my other posts...... How did you find the time in between your minimum rest time?
Ciao
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I have been very interested to read the opinions that Oxford students have of the Career Development Officer and I am not at all surprised at the views expressed.
I am also a past Oxford student and have had my own comical interactions with the Stan Laural look-a-like.
I think it is important to say from the outset that I had a very enjoyable time at Oxford and found the training excellent. I graduated with an 85% average at ground school, a series 1 pass CPL & first time pass IR. Quite naturally I was pleased with my achievements and so armed with a CV I went to see the Career Development Officer.
The first ‘problem’ he identified was that my grades were not as good as some other students. He considered a 90% average and first time pass at CPL & IR the desired criteria. I was pretty miffed at this, particularly as I was on one of the first JAA courses when the ground school failure rate was very high. The success Oxford later enjoyed was in no small part the result of people like me feeding exam questions into their question bank. I also firmly believe that whilst airlines do look at grades, they also look at the person, a skill beyond the Career Development Officer.
The second thing he told me was that I should show some form of ‘team work’ on my CV. I pointed out that my CV gave details of my work background, that being a Detective at New Scotland Yard, where I had worked in a number of specialist roles and had been commended for my work on 7 occasions. I had also put a number of sporting achievements and other interests on my CV. Well, the response was that I should consider doing the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme. I burst out laughing, until I realised he was being serious. He also said that if I had been a prefect at school or ever arranged a formal social event, put it on the CV. I was flabbergasted.
He then set about my CV with a red pen, and told me to come back when it had been corrected. I decided to ignore his rubbish and kept my CV as it was, particularly as I had been given positive feedback from better informed people.
I suspect that this bloke has been left unchecked for too long. This is why he has recently sent out an e-mail (which I have seen) telling people NOT to apply directly to airlines as this will not reflect well on them or Oxford.
This is utterly disgusting and offensive and quite rightly should be challenged robustly. Oxford is a training provider and as such their contract with a student/client is to provide them with the best training at their disposal. No mention is made in the contract or marketing material that once qualified your training record will be dissected and rubbished by an unqualified Career Development Officer. There is also no mention of having your rights to apply for jobs restricted or jeopardised.
Recently, I spoke with a friend who was ‘ambushed’ during an airline interview. He has a good pass rate, but did have some difficulties with an ‘in house’ test. He was asked how well he did at Oxford, and truthfully replied that he did well and got good passes. The bombshell was dropped that the interviewer had spoken with the Career Development Officer at Oxford who had informed them he could be a ‘training risk’. I was astounded that anyone could form this view about this particular person. Clearly, the numpty had done it again, he had made a perverse judgement about someone he didn’t know and destroyed their chance of getting a job. (Had it been me I would have considered legal action).
So why have Oxford got a part time incompetent buffoon in what would appear to be a critical role? The answer, my friends, could be a simple one.
Oxford is a very slick operation with some very switched-on people at the top, but, they do not have the airline contacts they claim to have. The jobs they infer are there simply do not exist in sufficient numbers for them to place their graduates. Currently, the Career Development Officer is just a marketing tool (possibly about to back-fire). The current bloke is actually perfect for the role of talking crap and fobbing people off. Rest assured, if Oxford ever really have jobs to hand out, they will appoint someone else to do it.
I am also a past Oxford student and have had my own comical interactions with the Stan Laural look-a-like.
I think it is important to say from the outset that I had a very enjoyable time at Oxford and found the training excellent. I graduated with an 85% average at ground school, a series 1 pass CPL & first time pass IR. Quite naturally I was pleased with my achievements and so armed with a CV I went to see the Career Development Officer.
The first ‘problem’ he identified was that my grades were not as good as some other students. He considered a 90% average and first time pass at CPL & IR the desired criteria. I was pretty miffed at this, particularly as I was on one of the first JAA courses when the ground school failure rate was very high. The success Oxford later enjoyed was in no small part the result of people like me feeding exam questions into their question bank. I also firmly believe that whilst airlines do look at grades, they also look at the person, a skill beyond the Career Development Officer.
The second thing he told me was that I should show some form of ‘team work’ on my CV. I pointed out that my CV gave details of my work background, that being a Detective at New Scotland Yard, where I had worked in a number of specialist roles and had been commended for my work on 7 occasions. I had also put a number of sporting achievements and other interests on my CV. Well, the response was that I should consider doing the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme. I burst out laughing, until I realised he was being serious. He also said that if I had been a prefect at school or ever arranged a formal social event, put it on the CV. I was flabbergasted.
He then set about my CV with a red pen, and told me to come back when it had been corrected. I decided to ignore his rubbish and kept my CV as it was, particularly as I had been given positive feedback from better informed people.
I suspect that this bloke has been left unchecked for too long. This is why he has recently sent out an e-mail (which I have seen) telling people NOT to apply directly to airlines as this will not reflect well on them or Oxford.
This is utterly disgusting and offensive and quite rightly should be challenged robustly. Oxford is a training provider and as such their contract with a student/client is to provide them with the best training at their disposal. No mention is made in the contract or marketing material that once qualified your training record will be dissected and rubbished by an unqualified Career Development Officer. There is also no mention of having your rights to apply for jobs restricted or jeopardised.
Recently, I spoke with a friend who was ‘ambushed’ during an airline interview. He has a good pass rate, but did have some difficulties with an ‘in house’ test. He was asked how well he did at Oxford, and truthfully replied that he did well and got good passes. The bombshell was dropped that the interviewer had spoken with the Career Development Officer at Oxford who had informed them he could be a ‘training risk’. I was astounded that anyone could form this view about this particular person. Clearly, the numpty had done it again, he had made a perverse judgement about someone he didn’t know and destroyed their chance of getting a job. (Had it been me I would have considered legal action).
So why have Oxford got a part time incompetent buffoon in what would appear to be a critical role? The answer, my friends, could be a simple one.
Oxford is a very slick operation with some very switched-on people at the top, but, they do not have the airline contacts they claim to have. The jobs they infer are there simply do not exist in sufficient numbers for them to place their graduates. Currently, the Career Development Officer is just a marketing tool (possibly about to back-fire). The current bloke is actually perfect for the role of talking crap and fobbing people off. Rest assured, if Oxford ever really have jobs to hand out, they will appoint someone else to do it.
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Dear oh dear…. reading these posts does make me smile!
You guys that are out there anonymously slagging off and personally attacking poor old Mike Taylor now that you are finished with Oxford and find yourselves with no job and bills to pay, as I recall, were the same guys queing up outside his office with your fake smiles and “first time passes” greasing up to him (and anyone else at the school you thought might help you get a job) when you were still there. Now that the reality of the industry has dawned, you are taking your frustrations out on this guy.
I am not defending him, I too think that there are other areas within Flight Training he is more suited to, but guys, wake up and smell the coffee - jobs for low hour inexperienced pilots with nothing but a PA 28 on their licence are very few and far between at the moment.
Come on fellers, grow up a bit. You gave it a go at creeping and crawling around a member of OATS staff in the naive hope you would land a job out of it and it didn’t work - get over it and try another angle. The fact it was Mike Taylor who’s arse you had to lick is irrelevant you would have sucked up to and then turned upon who ever it was.
Fact
No one forced us to go to Oxford
More fool you if you think Oxford has or ever will have any say or influence over the recruitment policies of Airlines
More fool Lofty for thinking that any student displaying any interest in him is genuine - they are only being nice cos they want something out of you
If you were in the right place at the right time and he did get you a job you would be all happy with the guy
Don’t shoot the messenger
Don’t get personal
You guys that are out there anonymously slagging off and personally attacking poor old Mike Taylor now that you are finished with Oxford and find yourselves with no job and bills to pay, as I recall, were the same guys queing up outside his office with your fake smiles and “first time passes” greasing up to him (and anyone else at the school you thought might help you get a job) when you were still there. Now that the reality of the industry has dawned, you are taking your frustrations out on this guy.
I am not defending him, I too think that there are other areas within Flight Training he is more suited to, but guys, wake up and smell the coffee - jobs for low hour inexperienced pilots with nothing but a PA 28 on their licence are very few and far between at the moment.
Come on fellers, grow up a bit. You gave it a go at creeping and crawling around a member of OATS staff in the naive hope you would land a job out of it and it didn’t work - get over it and try another angle. The fact it was Mike Taylor who’s arse you had to lick is irrelevant you would have sucked up to and then turned upon who ever it was.
Fact
No one forced us to go to Oxford
More fool you if you think Oxford has or ever will have any say or influence over the recruitment policies of Airlines
More fool Lofty for thinking that any student displaying any interest in him is genuine - they are only being nice cos they want something out of you
If you were in the right place at the right time and he did get you a job you would be all happy with the guy
Don’t shoot the messenger
Don’t get personal
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quote:
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personally attacking poor old Mike Taylor now that you are finished with Oxford and find yourselves with no job and bills to pay, as I recall, were the same guys queing up outside his office
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the words "as I recall" in the context of this sentence infer you are part of Oxford.
Rupertpupkin first post ?.......... set up a new account so no-one would suss who the message was coming from........ having the front to attack people for being anonymous and staying so yourself......... slight tinge of hypocrisy.
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I am not defending him
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yes you are.......
quote:
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wake up and smell the coffee
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a phrase I have heard spoken by a senior Oxford manager a few times??
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Come on fellers, grow up a bit. You gave it a go at creeping and crawling around a member of OATS staff in the naive hope you would land a job out of it and it didn’t work
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I havn't done either, I have tried to get blood out of a stone and banged my head against the wall but not bum licked anyone, and the naive hope you refer to that didn't work was not presented as a "naive hope" in the pre Oxford seminar I attended.
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More fool you if you think Oxford has or ever will have any say or influence over the recruitment policies of Airlines
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the only snippet of your steaming pile of td I do agree with.
So why don't you wake up and smell the coffee and stop lying to people, stop making baseless promises of partners and link ups that don't exist. Many people who have contributed in an open way to this thread have good jobs. This was never about Mike Taylor, everyone knows he is basically a good man but just the wrong man for the job, it is about Career Development, the department he heads up, being a Marketing Tool to sell more courses, full of half truths and false promises and certainly anything but Career Development for the students who handed over vast some of monies in your BS sales seminar.
some of the PA28 guys and gals you refer to will be the Airline recruiters of 15/20 years time.
I'll suggest CTC as they genuinely have the framework and partner tie ups that Oxford BS about.
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personally attacking poor old Mike Taylor now that you are finished with Oxford and find yourselves with no job and bills to pay, as I recall, were the same guys queing up outside his office
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
the words "as I recall" in the context of this sentence infer you are part of Oxford.
Rupertpupkin first post ?.......... set up a new account so no-one would suss who the message was coming from........ having the front to attack people for being anonymous and staying so yourself......... slight tinge of hypocrisy.
quote:
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I am not defending him
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yes you are.......
quote:
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wake up and smell the coffee
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a phrase I have heard spoken by a senior Oxford manager a few times??
quote:
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Come on fellers, grow up a bit. You gave it a go at creeping and crawling around a member of OATS staff in the naive hope you would land a job out of it and it didn’t work
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I havn't done either, I have tried to get blood out of a stone and banged my head against the wall but not bum licked anyone, and the naive hope you refer to that didn't work was not presented as a "naive hope" in the pre Oxford seminar I attended.
quote:
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More fool you if you think Oxford has or ever will have any say or influence over the recruitment policies of Airlines
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the only snippet of your steaming pile of t
d I do agree with.So why don't you wake up and smell the coffee and stop lying to people, stop making baseless promises of partners and link ups that don't exist. Many people who have contributed in an open way to this thread have good jobs. This was never about Mike Taylor, everyone knows he is basically a good man but just the wrong man for the job, it is about Career Development, the department he heads up, being a Marketing Tool to sell more courses, full of half truths and false promises and certainly anything but Career Development for the students who handed over vast some of monies in your BS sales seminar.
some of the PA28 guys and gals you refer to will be the Airline recruiters of 15/20 years time.
I'll suggest CTC as they genuinely have the framework and partner tie ups that Oxford BS about.
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Dr. Evil 2002
Salary and time to command are quite relivant if your looking at spending £17-£20k on a type rating. I dont agree with paying for ratings but if I was in the position now I think I would have swallowed the pill and done it.
...
Not at all, many people work long and hard to get a job, you dont tend to here from them except for the odd post asking a civil question that you promply berrate. They quietly get on with it and find a job eventually. Oxford do assist in finding jobs, there are very few jobs out there to find for low hours pilots at the moment. It is an awful position to be in having paid all that money and not having got a job, that doesnt make it OATS fault though. I do agree that they shouldnt push the marketing side of getting a job so much, but do you believe every salesman who approaches you? Oxford have a product, they give it the hard sell. You owe it to yourself to sort the wheat from the chaff, and decide if they are being totaly truthful. Just reading this one thread shows that the truth is streched somewhat....
If your working now, I will ask 'nicely' who is it for? Did you have to pay for your rating. Also why are you still here starting winging posts about Oxford? A better post may have been about how you got your job, the interview process and the sim ride. That would have helped people at least.
Oh and for your interest I work 5 on 3 off know what Im doing months and months in advance. As for minimun crew rest I have had minimum rest maybe twice in 3 years so maybe you should do some research yourself..
Salary and time to command are quite relivant if your looking at spending £17-£20k on a type rating. I dont agree with paying for ratings but if I was in the position now I think I would have swallowed the pill and done it.
...
You seem to think everyone who has posted on here expects to be handed a job. Thats not the case.
If your working now, I will ask 'nicely' who is it for? Did you have to pay for your rating. Also why are you still here starting winging posts about Oxford? A better post may have been about how you got your job, the interview process and the sim ride. That would have helped people at least.
Oh and for your interest I work 5 on 3 off know what Im doing months and months in advance. As for minimun crew rest I have had minimum rest maybe twice in 3 years so maybe you should do some research yourself..
Last edited by batty; 9th Feb 2004 at 17:14.
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Batty
I agree, salary and time to command are important and I honestly didn't mean to get into a slanging match with you.
When I finished at OATS I was very lucky in that I have a military background and was fortunate to have several contacts in the indusrty already. The reason for my posting this thread is that I have friends who have come out of OATS and are, in my opinion fed a load of rubbish and false promises. As we all know we are all, no matter how old we are or how much experience we have, very excited after getting through the hard slog and I agree that no one should ever believe what any training provider tells/sells you with regard to jobs.
However, I think what the career development dept do at OATS is a scadal. We, as pilots are already bashed from pillar to post, having to pay 50-60K for the licence, maybe 20K for type and then are fed info that is a load of marketing s t
It makes me no less mad that I have a job, I would feel exactly the same way if I were seeking that elusive first job. I know more low hour pilots from OATS that have got jobs with the so caled "partner airlines" or whatever OATS call them than have been "placed" with them or whatever it is OATS do. This, after Mr Taylor has the front to say you "can't" apply direct.
The bottom line as I see it is that OATs should not be using this as a marketing tool as I see it as completely false marketing.
It's not personal, it's not about Mike as a person.
As for the paying for type - I personally didn't and wouldn't. As for your roster - it sounds good - better than I thought or heard.
Why do I whinge about OATS - see the reasons above. Just because I'm employed - doesn't mean to say I don't keep my ear to the ground and have an opinion on what they do.
Ciao
I agree, salary and time to command are important and I honestly didn't mean to get into a slanging match with you.
When I finished at OATS I was very lucky in that I have a military background and was fortunate to have several contacts in the indusrty already. The reason for my posting this thread is that I have friends who have come out of OATS and are, in my opinion fed a load of rubbish and false promises. As we all know we are all, no matter how old we are or how much experience we have, very excited after getting through the hard slog and I agree that no one should ever believe what any training provider tells/sells you with regard to jobs.
However, I think what the career development dept do at OATS is a scadal. We, as pilots are already bashed from pillar to post, having to pay 50-60K for the licence, maybe 20K for type and then are fed info that is a load of marketing s
tIt makes me no less mad that I have a job, I would feel exactly the same way if I were seeking that elusive first job. I know more low hour pilots from OATS that have got jobs with the so caled "partner airlines" or whatever OATS call them than have been "placed" with them or whatever it is OATS do. This, after Mr Taylor has the front to say you "can't" apply direct.
The bottom line as I see it is that OATs should not be using this as a marketing tool as I see it as completely false marketing.
It's not personal, it's not about Mike as a person.
As for the paying for type - I personally didn't and wouldn't. As for your roster - it sounds good - better than I thought or heard.
Why do I whinge about OATS - see the reasons above. Just because I'm employed - doesn't mean to say I don't keep my ear to the ground and have an opinion on what they do.
Ciao
Now, if you had gone modular with all the money you'd save you could have done a type-rating. Oh well, you pay your money.....