Global Aviation Solutions testing day
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Aviate378
I am curious as to why you edited your post. I was elsewhere when I noticed that you had seen a howler of mine! Quite right too.
What I meant to say was "It costs literally £000's more to train now than it did X years ago." My apologies but I think your ribbing regarding the finance department was well justified.
I no longer have a nice Captains wallet but I do realise that a young guy must be totally dedicated and have the support of a bank, or a very rich father. But, the fact is that it is not only GAS who are asking for sim assessment costs, many airlines do that now. It is a sign of the times and another giant leap on to the commercial ladder.
What they must do is be very wary and be sure that what they are offered is genuine and cannot be reneged upon. The real risk is their ability to do the IR work correctly. Mess that up and he or she is likely to be out of pocket. Castings aspersions on that particular subject is unnecessary and can be libellous. Just make sure the details are well known before proceeding.
As to your final comment I cannot disagree with you. GAS HAVE to be open and honest about final line checks leading to a contractually safe job. It should NOT encourage people to take on the committment unless this is forthcoming. That would be the fair and honest thing to do.
So, if I may re-iterate what I have said before. Due diligence is your only early safeguard. Consider the £850 outlay. Are you good enough to do a sim assessment. Can you scan correctly, can you do, without screwing up say, a LGW departure to MAY and a good well ordered approach to LGW. It's not VERY difficult if you can cope. If you can't, and you know you can't don't spend the money - yet!
I think I will leave my input at that.
I am curious as to why you edited your post. I was elsewhere when I noticed that you had seen a howler of mine! Quite right too.
What I meant to say was "It costs literally £000's more to train now than it did X years ago." My apologies but I think your ribbing regarding the finance department was well justified.
I no longer have a nice Captains wallet but I do realise that a young guy must be totally dedicated and have the support of a bank, or a very rich father. But, the fact is that it is not only GAS who are asking for sim assessment costs, many airlines do that now. It is a sign of the times and another giant leap on to the commercial ladder.
What they must do is be very wary and be sure that what they are offered is genuine and cannot be reneged upon. The real risk is their ability to do the IR work correctly. Mess that up and he or she is likely to be out of pocket. Castings aspersions on that particular subject is unnecessary and can be libellous. Just make sure the details are well known before proceeding.
As to your final comment I cannot disagree with you. GAS HAVE to be open and honest about final line checks leading to a contractually safe job. It should NOT encourage people to take on the committment unless this is forthcoming. That would be the fair and honest thing to do.
So, if I may re-iterate what I have said before. Due diligence is your only early safeguard. Consider the £850 outlay. Are you good enough to do a sim assessment. Can you scan correctly, can you do, without screwing up say, a LGW departure to MAY and a good well ordered approach to LGW. It's not VERY difficult if you can cope. If you can't, and you know you can't don't spend the money - yet!
I think I will leave my input at that.
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CH4
Thanks for your reply that has now cleared the air quite a bit. I'll take you word that: "The information that most people are asking is now available..." And I do hope that the "wannabees" will be asking those important questions, and what ever is agreed and promised will be respected & held, this goes both ways.
I do hope that you will understand that my sometimes quite provocative postings were written only because I was hoping that you and your company would proof that I was wrong and to be more open and informative. I also want to point out that I do not have anything personal against you or the company you are representing. We will still have some disagreements with some of those 4 issues I was addressing earlier under this subject, I do hope that you respect my point of view as much as I do understand that this is your business and you have the right to make your living with it.
So, let's move on and let the time show us what will happen. If I'll see plenty of postings in the future, where your "wannabees" are happy with the jobs and salary you have arranged to them, I promise, here and now, to take all my scepticism back
CaptFillosan
Yes, it was that one word that got me confused, but it's ok, I guessed your original thought. By the way, I think that I coudn't survive at the Finance Department any better than you
I wish the best of luck to everyone
Thanks for your reply that has now cleared the air quite a bit. I'll take you word that: "The information that most people are asking is now available..." And I do hope that the "wannabees" will be asking those important questions, and what ever is agreed and promised will be respected & held, this goes both ways.
I do hope that you will understand that my sometimes quite provocative postings were written only because I was hoping that you and your company would proof that I was wrong and to be more open and informative. I also want to point out that I do not have anything personal against you or the company you are representing. We will still have some disagreements with some of those 4 issues I was addressing earlier under this subject, I do hope that you respect my point of view as much as I do understand that this is your business and you have the right to make your living with it.
So, let's move on and let the time show us what will happen. If I'll see plenty of postings in the future, where your "wannabees" are happy with the jobs and salary you have arranged to them, I promise, here and now, to take all my scepticism back
CaptFillosan
Yes, it was that one word that got me confused, but it's ok, I guessed your original thought. By the way, I think that I coudn't survive at the Finance Department any better than you
I wish the best of luck to everyone
Last edited by Aviate378; 20th Nov 2003 at 03:48.
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Hi guys and girls
Well, i did cause a bit of an uproar didnt i. I apologise for that. I did phone Martin Coleman and got the information on what is involved in the testing day, and he was more than helpful. I would just like to ask one more time if i can if anyone has been through the selection and if there is a detailed explanation they can give about the specific tests and the sim profile.
thank you everyone for your replies, its been interesting.
Well, i did cause a bit of an uproar didnt i. I apologise for that. I did phone Martin Coleman and got the information on what is involved in the testing day, and he was more than helpful. I would just like to ask one more time if i can if anyone has been through the selection and if there is a detailed explanation they can give about the specific tests and the sim profile.
thank you everyone for your replies, its been interesting.
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One final clarification - at least partial
- while we're all holding hands.
The comments from 126.9 were totally unacceptable, abusive and thus removed. A bowdlerised precis would have been caveat emptor and shop around.
I suspect, but can't yet prove, that the writer feels he or she was ripped off for a very significant sum over a type rating.
This does not apply in any way to CH4. As I mentioned in my earlier post reputation is all for his core business. He simply can't afford any hint of not giving his clients a square deal with the best 'aftercare' in the business.
My opinion is that in the presently changing market many of you don't need to join such a scheme. However, those of you who see it as an option will meet a guy who really does go the extra mile to look after his 'troops.'
Regards
Rob
- while we're all holding hands. The comments from 126.9 were totally unacceptable, abusive and thus removed. A bowdlerised precis would have been caveat emptor and shop around.
I suspect, but can't yet prove, that the writer feels he or she was ripped off for a very significant sum over a type rating.
This does not apply in any way to CH4. As I mentioned in my earlier post reputation is all for his core business. He simply can't afford any hint of not giving his clients a square deal with the best 'aftercare' in the business.
My opinion is that in the presently changing market many of you don't need to join such a scheme. However, those of you who see it as an option will meet a guy who really does go the extra mile to look after his 'troops.'
Regards
Rob
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As a further and final clarification and to clear the air a little further, no, I do not work nor am I employed by Global however I have a very close friend who does, and before anyone asks, no that friend is not CH4.
Perhaps I have shot from the hip a little but, Aviate378, are you prepared to be honest and admit that you do not know who Global's customer airlines are thus you are not in a position to pass judgement?
Having an insight into inside information which I would love to talk about but I cannot, there is a level of frustration to read some of the posts made.
Aviate378, I am calling a truce here and bowing out gracefully, in my departure I ask that you be gentlemanly enough to retract your previous post regarding customer airlines not being in a postion to pay salaries etc.
Individuals, one of whom is very close to me, are putting a lot of work into the placement of pilots after completion of training courses and certain posts (not necessarily yours) bring tears to their eyes.
Please be humane about this and you will have my respect thereafter Aviate378.
Best wishes to all
Perhaps I have shot from the hip a little but, Aviate378, are you prepared to be honest and admit that you do not know who Global's customer airlines are thus you are not in a position to pass judgement?
Having an insight into inside information which I would love to talk about but I cannot, there is a level of frustration to read some of the posts made.
Aviate378, I am calling a truce here and bowing out gracefully, in my departure I ask that you be gentlemanly enough to retract your previous post regarding customer airlines not being in a postion to pay salaries etc.
Individuals, one of whom is very close to me, are putting a lot of work into the placement of pilots after completion of training courses and certain posts (not necessarily yours) bring tears to their eyes.
Please be humane about this and you will have my respect thereafter Aviate378.
Best wishes to all
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opsmaneurope,
as I said before, my sometimes quite provocative postings were made only because there were lots of people who wanted to know more about this deal and the actual chance to land on reasonably well paid job after a successfull final check. My comment about "airlines who can not afford to pay salaries" was ment to be just a challenge to reveal who those airline customers actually are and what kind of salary could actually be expected ( quite pertinent information to any prospective trainee, don't you think?).
After reading PPRuNe Towers reply (he seems to know this training organization and people connected with it pretty well) I do believe when CH4 says: "The information that most people are asking is now available..." , that he really means it.
Finally, I would like to quote CaptainFillosan's words (because I couldn't say it any better): "GAS HAVE to be open and honest about final line checks leading to a contractually safe job. It should NOT encourage people to take on the committment unless this is forthcoming. That would be the fair and honest thing to do."
Best Regards
Aviate378
ps. If someone is wondering why I'm so worried about the "wannabees" future here, I can reveal that I got ripped off during my initial pilot training in the USA. Even I tried to be as carefull as I could, it somehow happened! Luckily it didn't prevent my dream to come true and I truly enjoy my life as a professional pilot these days.
I try to take it as a learning experience and make sure it will not happen again, to any of us, if possible at all. It was a very clever scam, but I do not want to go in details here because this is the wrong arena, it was not connected anyway or anyhow into any of people or organization mentioned in previous posts.
as I said before, my sometimes quite provocative postings were made only because there were lots of people who wanted to know more about this deal and the actual chance to land on reasonably well paid job after a successfull final check. My comment about "airlines who can not afford to pay salaries" was ment to be just a challenge to reveal who those airline customers actually are and what kind of salary could actually be expected ( quite pertinent information to any prospective trainee, don't you think?).
After reading PPRuNe Towers reply (he seems to know this training organization and people connected with it pretty well) I do believe when CH4 says: "The information that most people are asking is now available..." , that he really means it.
Finally, I would like to quote CaptainFillosan's words (because I couldn't say it any better): "GAS HAVE to be open and honest about final line checks leading to a contractually safe job. It should NOT encourage people to take on the committment unless this is forthcoming. That would be the fair and honest thing to do."
Best Regards
Aviate378
ps. If someone is wondering why I'm so worried about the "wannabees" future here, I can reveal that I got ripped off during my initial pilot training in the USA. Even I tried to be as carefull as I could, it somehow happened! Luckily it didn't prevent my dream to come true and I truly enjoy my life as a professional pilot these days.
I try to take it as a learning experience and make sure it will not happen again, to any of us, if possible at all. It was a very clever scam, but I do not want to go in details here because this is the wrong arena, it was not connected anyway or anyhow into any of people or organization mentioned in previous posts.
Last edited by Aviate378; 21st Nov 2003 at 16:02.
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Then I wonder...
How many B737 they have altogether Astraeus and Storm? How come Astraeus asks 1170£ for the type raiting selection process that is the same 1-day-selection of GAS which costs "just" 850£? Actually it's even shorter, because you just need to do a psychological test besides the simulator.
Do we have any Astraeus expert here?
Do we have any Astraeus expert here?
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clearly i'm not the Astraeus expert you were looking for! Astraeus have two 737's at LGW. G-STRA (300) and G-STRE (700). I wouldn't worry about the 320 quid difference in selection prices when the final cost is so enormous. after all, in both cases the selection money is creditted to your final bill, and presumably you won't be going for the selection unless you think you stand a pretty good chance of getting through.
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Storm have no aircraft - their specialities are the supply of pilots / cabin crew / engineers / trainers / etc, and also the provision of engineering line-maintenance support to airlines - indeed they provide the line-maintenance for Astraeus, and many other much larger airlines.
Astraeus presently have five B737's:
G-STRA - B737-300
G-STRB - B737-300
G-STRC - B737-700
G-STRD - B737-700
G-STRE - B737-300
Until about two weeks ago Astraeus also had a sixth aircraft, i.e. G-BZZA - B737-300, which it has since been returned its owners / leasing company
The fleet predominantly operates out of LGW, MAN, and STN - and / or where ever the business requires.
Subject to market conditions, it's is strongly rumoured that for the 2004 summer season Astraeus will be operating a fleet of seven, or maybe even eight, B737's ( a mixture of -300 & -700 series aircraft ).
They are also presently negotiating for a total fleet renewal ( in 2005 ) where any such fleet is very likely to be either Boeing B737's or Airbus A319's.
Astraeus presently have five B737's:
G-STRA - B737-300
G-STRB - B737-300
G-STRC - B737-700
G-STRD - B737-700
G-STRE - B737-300
Until about two weeks ago Astraeus also had a sixth aircraft, i.e. G-BZZA - B737-300, which it has since been returned its owners / leasing company
The fleet predominantly operates out of LGW, MAN, and STN - and / or where ever the business requires.
Subject to market conditions, it's is strongly rumoured that for the 2004 summer season Astraeus will be operating a fleet of seven, or maybe even eight, B737's ( a mixture of -300 & -700 series aircraft ).
They are also presently negotiating for a total fleet renewal ( in 2005 ) where any such fleet is very likely to be either Boeing B737's or Airbus A319's.
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Just a small post,
When the assesment is succeed, what's next, how is that working.
Do we have to go again in England before the beginning of the course? when begin the course? where is the type rating done?
Do we sign something with storm? and so one.
If somebody can help me with information, I will appreciate it.
I could phone to Gas, but as we are the week-end nobody answer.
PS: CH4 if you don't want to give this info. on the forum, don't hesitate to send me a PM.
PS 2 : No need of negative think or endless debat about GAS, thank you...
Flying Oli
When the assesment is succeed, what's next, how is that working.
Do we have to go again in England before the beginning of the course? when begin the course? where is the type rating done?
Do we sign something with storm? and so one.
If somebody can help me with information, I will appreciate it.
I could phone to Gas, but as we are the week-end nobody answer.
PS: CH4 if you don't want to give this info. on the forum, don't hesitate to send me a PM.
PS 2 : No need of negative think or endless debat about GAS, thank you...
Flying Oli
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the fact is...
The only 2 companies with a sort of agreement with GAS are Storm and Astraeus, that's why I was wondering how many a/c do they have altogether, just to have a very idea of how many pilots they can claim to really need.
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number - GAS is a joint venture between Storm and Bond ( Astraeus ).
As far as I can tell, the whole point of what GAS joint venture is offering is that the people employed at Bond ( Astraeus ) will train you to fly the B737, and the people working at Storm will find an airline to take you once you are rated - at the end of the day you might find yourself working for any number of airlines, which might ( or might not ) include Astraeus.
cleared24right - don't be so sure, but you are correct when you say that Astraeus have previously run a type-rating scheme ( through PPRuNe actually ).
As far as I can tell, the whole point of what GAS joint venture is offering is that the people employed at Bond ( Astraeus ) will train you to fly the B737, and the people working at Storm will find an airline to take you once you are rated - at the end of the day you might find yourself working for any number of airlines, which might ( or might not ) include Astraeus.
cleared24right - don't be so sure, but you are correct when you say that Astraeus have previously run a type-rating scheme ( through PPRuNe actually ).
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Puritan, If GAS is as you said a joint venture between those 2 airlines, how can someone work for a different company (if he will work of course)? The only chances are with Storm and Astraeus.
That's why I was asking how many a/c they have altogether, so far I've counted 5 planes. Plus the ones of Storm which I don't know about.
How many positions as co pilots can they claim to offer? 5 or 6 at the most...
That's why, the offer of GAS would be 100% honest if they would also underline how many positions are available, and the best ones coming out from the training will go for them.
It could be all so easy....
That's why I was asking how many a/c they have altogether, so far I've counted 5 planes. Plus the ones of Storm which I don't know about.
How many positions as co pilots can they claim to offer? 5 or 6 at the most...
That's why, the offer of GAS would be 100% honest if they would also underline how many positions are available, and the best ones coming out from the training will go for them.
It could be all so easy....
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Look, here is what Astraeus is doing for next year, I am pretty certain however that CH4 who obviously runs the Global scheme mentioned that GAS are not providing ANY pilots to Astraeus, could be wrong, best to ask him.
http://www.jethros.i12.com/FLEETS/Listings/ASTRAEUS.htm
http://www.jethros.i12.com/FLEETS/Listings/ASTRAEUS.htm
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number - It is easy ( but you seemingly don't get it ! ).
Wr.t. employment and 'The only chances are with Storm and Astraeus.' - I'm afraid that your assumption is just plain wrong.
Nb. You should remember that, for many years, approx 50% of Storm's business has been placing pilots with airlines ( both permanent and contract ) with remainder of Storm's business being the provision of 'engineering line maintenance' and other ancillary services for airlines.
I know for a fact that Storm have been out talking to airlines ( in the UK and Europe ) and making arrangements with those airlines for them to take-on the pilots who complete the GAS type-rating course.
That said, one would imagine that the GAS pilots are initially on temporary airline contracts, but where it is to be hoped that the host airline(s) will convert the temporary contracts into something more permanent.... failing that one might choose to continue as a 'contract pilot' ( and many do ) wherein Storm are quite likely to be able to find them contracts to match their employment needs ( especially so as it's in Storm’s own interest to do it ).
cleared24right - just seen your post above ( hence the edit ) Thanks for the link.... which I think you'll find confirms what I said at the top of this page w.r.t. Astraeus’ fleet size.
I also suspect that you're right about Astraeus' recruitment from the GAS scheme in that, unless things dramatically change, Astraeus are presently mob-handed with FO's.... it's Captains that are thin on the ground.
Wr.t. employment and 'The only chances are with Storm and Astraeus.' - I'm afraid that your assumption is just plain wrong.
Nb. You should remember that, for many years, approx 50% of Storm's business has been placing pilots with airlines ( both permanent and contract ) with remainder of Storm's business being the provision of 'engineering line maintenance' and other ancillary services for airlines.
I know for a fact that Storm have been out talking to airlines ( in the UK and Europe ) and making arrangements with those airlines for them to take-on the pilots who complete the GAS type-rating course.
That said, one would imagine that the GAS pilots are initially on temporary airline contracts, but where it is to be hoped that the host airline(s) will convert the temporary contracts into something more permanent.... failing that one might choose to continue as a 'contract pilot' ( and many do ) wherein Storm are quite likely to be able to find them contracts to match their employment needs ( especially so as it's in Storm’s own interest to do it ).
cleared24right - just seen your post above ( hence the edit ) Thanks for the link.... which I think you'll find confirms what I said at the top of this page w.r.t. Astraeus’ fleet size.
I also suspect that you're right about Astraeus' recruitment from the GAS scheme in that, unless things dramatically change, Astraeus are presently mob-handed with FO's.... it's Captains that are thin on the ground.