Aer Turas shut down today!
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@ CargoOne,
You start getting my point. That's why AT went down. Polictics. Examples: When stage III was introduced. JAR Ops operators had to comply and foreign operators were granted exemptions for years. When a foreign ops wanted a 5th freedom out of Europe: granted against European ops objection. When same European ops wanted 5th freedom out of Africa: denied based on foreign ops objection, etc. etc. etc.
I can't go into too many details here as I still have a number of court cases ongoing in Lux for the next several years. But I hope the outcome of that will be a change of policy.
OK for me case closed for the moment, sihning off.
Greetings
BeePee
You start getting my point. That's why AT went down. Polictics. Examples: When stage III was introduced. JAR Ops operators had to comply and foreign operators were granted exemptions for years. When a foreign ops wanted a 5th freedom out of Europe: granted against European ops objection. When same European ops wanted 5th freedom out of Africa: denied based on foreign ops objection, etc. etc. etc.
I can't go into too many details here as I still have a number of court cases ongoing in Lux for the next several years. But I hope the outcome of that will be a change of policy.
OK for me case closed for the moment, sihning off.
Greetings
BeePee
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CargoOne, your information is way off, Aer Turas never flew out of CAI. At the start of the year the aircraft flew on Air Memphis/RJ routes AMM-MST-AMM, wheich trickled down to a few a week. Then came TMA which you should know, are based in BEY. The promise was big flying but again these trickled down to flying over the weekend on the BEY-OST, BEY-ORY flights and not enough to be sustainable.
It has been a bad few years, foot and mouth hit our bloodstock flights badly, a huge amount of revenue was lost there and then of course 9/11 and US flights which were always great revenue earners for us dissapeared. US customs then introduced a ludicrous demand that airlines must have a US customs bond worth $100,000 to fly into the US. This was a killer and even Aer Lingus was worried for a time on that. DC8's can't operate anymore out of LGG which rules out TNT of course, another good revenue earner. With the DC8 nowadays you're really only looking at Europe-Africa/Middle east. You've got low cost carriers offering unrealistic rates to charterers just to keep cash flow going. The way the EU is going DC8's will probably be finished in a few years anyway.
It's a Lessors market now and they know it, they can squeeze and squeeze.
It has been a bad few years, foot and mouth hit our bloodstock flights badly, a huge amount of revenue was lost there and then of course 9/11 and US flights which were always great revenue earners for us dissapeared. US customs then introduced a ludicrous demand that airlines must have a US customs bond worth $100,000 to fly into the US. This was a killer and even Aer Lingus was worried for a time on that. DC8's can't operate anymore out of LGG which rules out TNT of course, another good revenue earner. With the DC8 nowadays you're really only looking at Europe-Africa/Middle east. You've got low cost carriers offering unrealistic rates to charterers just to keep cash flow going. The way the EU is going DC8's will probably be finished in a few years anyway.
It's a Lessors market now and they know it, they can squeeze and squeeze.
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not really a lessors market in the long term, but good demand for charter in the short term, ie:contracts for the middle east are being distributed to us and uk FRT operators( reg) and nobodies around to pick up on it in the uk, such a shame.
i for one would love to piggy back a competitive charter operation under the umbrella of the mother carriers jars et all. as there is a demand for this, and this is where our african registered friends are thriving, there was a thread a while back questioning the ethics of the caa's who register these aircraft but each country they fly to requires an audit on the carrier and they are approved.
why did nt aer turas re-equip ?? or go one size up
i for one would love to piggy back a competitive charter operation under the umbrella of the mother carriers jars et all. as there is a demand for this, and this is where our african registered friends are thriving, there was a thread a while back questioning the ethics of the caa's who register these aircraft but each country they fly to requires an audit on the carrier and they are approved.
why did nt aer turas re-equip ?? or go one size up
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There had been a rumour for a while of Aer Turas buying DC10's to replace the DC8's. But I believe the two DC8's were difficult to sell.
Was EI-BNA costing much money to park in the middle east all these years? If so that must have been a drain that the company could do without.
How many people are out of work with the demise of Aer Turas?
G.
Was EI-BNA costing much money to park in the middle east all these years? If so that must have been a drain that the company could do without.
How many people are out of work with the demise of Aer Turas?
G.
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Aer Turas demise
I flew at Aer Turas for two years and I have to say it was the best job I worked at. They paid on time and treated the staff fairly. We flew to unusual places and stayed at the best of hotels. Each flight was well catered and the staff there were A1. It was as close to a country club lifestyle as one could get. And the DC-8 always got you home. And I do miss sitting on the ramp in Khartoum, Sudan with no air conditioning in 42 degree heat waiting for lamb carcass to be unloaded! I miss working with the guys there, especilaay some of the characters like the loadmasters !!!!!
sad to see the place go.
sad to see the place go.
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BeePee,
Your haste in making this post can almost be seen as using the demise of Aer Turas as further justification of your own failure with Cargo Lion.
While there is no doubt that the non European, flags of convenience, airlines make life very difficult for independent all-cargo operators this is not the only factor in success or failure.
AIA while on a non European AOC provides a high standard and safe operation at competitive costs. They certainly make liberal use of flight time and duty limitations but this is not the crucial factor in airlines success.
What does AIA have that Cargo Lion did not? In two words, "Effective Management". AIA also has a strong maintenance commitment. If your planes cannot fly you cannot keep contracts.
Selection of the right personnel in the right place is crucial. The joker unaffectionately referred to as the "Weasel" took Cargo Lion for a ride - but you selected him!! The previous maintenance manager was totally incompetent - but you selected him!!
Purchasing a DC10 at the top of the market without firm contracts, AND when all others are going down the 747 road; forgetting to put the butter on the bread by allowing the DC8 maintenance to deteriorate thereby losing contract after contract, are all examples of poor management, your management.
Still it was a good try and I give you credit for looking after the troops in the end. It is just a pity you did not see the light earlier, especially with the Weasel.
Bozzo
Your haste in making this post can almost be seen as using the demise of Aer Turas as further justification of your own failure with Cargo Lion.
While there is no doubt that the non European, flags of convenience, airlines make life very difficult for independent all-cargo operators this is not the only factor in success or failure.
AIA while on a non European AOC provides a high standard and safe operation at competitive costs. They certainly make liberal use of flight time and duty limitations but this is not the crucial factor in airlines success.
What does AIA have that Cargo Lion did not? In two words, "Effective Management". AIA also has a strong maintenance commitment. If your planes cannot fly you cannot keep contracts.
Selection of the right personnel in the right place is crucial. The joker unaffectionately referred to as the "Weasel" took Cargo Lion for a ride - but you selected him!! The previous maintenance manager was totally incompetent - but you selected him!!
Purchasing a DC10 at the top of the market without firm contracts, AND when all others are going down the 747 road; forgetting to put the butter on the bread by allowing the DC8 maintenance to deteriorate thereby losing contract after contract, are all examples of poor management, your management.
Still it was a good try and I give you credit for looking after the troops in the end. It is just a pity you did not see the light earlier, especially with the Weasel.
Bozzo
Last edited by Bozzo; 6th Jul 2003 at 15:30.
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@ Bozzo,
You don't really beleave what you're writing here, do you. Specially after your recent experience of your own "Effective Management". But I guess you always need someone to blame.
You don't really beleave what you're writing here, do you. Specially after your recent experience of your own "Effective Management".
But I guess you always need someone to blame.
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Geez BeePee you sure whinge a lot.For someone with a fortune in his backpocket I don't feel sorry for your having to pay out salaries(and you did not pay everyone out, only those who sucked hard). But I digress. The failure of AT is unfortunate but was a long time coming. Country club atmosphere, best hotels, characters. Even the majors cannot afford all of this so how can 1 DC8 support it? The reason for the failure of the "independant" freight carriers from the EU is simple. Poor management. If you think the answer lies in the courts well good luck.There are two freight operators who have flourished with 707's,DC10's,DC8's and 747's while a lot of the rest have gone down. Face it boys you are being outmanoeuvred to the max and you will not beat them. Can't argue with success even if you do not like it/them.
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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Bozzo, I do not have any inside knowledge of the operations being described above, but it seems to me that you attack on a highly personal and vituperative level.
“Better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all” appears to be the operative phrase here, my personal assessment of your attitudes leads me to believe that you wouldn’t risk your own bike, my friend, let alone the family jewels to pursue life’s most closely held dreams and ambitions.
Before you embarrass yourself further, perhaps you should back off mate, you go too far. BP seems a decent and good man, I don’t really know, you are free to dispute that. I object strongly, however, to your self-aggrandizing monopoly of the moral high ground.
BP, good on ya mate, may the Phoenix rise gloriously from the ashes of destruction, and the Lion roar once more. Life is short my friend; take no names, kick some ass, and make it count!!
“Better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all” appears to be the operative phrase here, my personal assessment of your attitudes leads me to believe that you wouldn’t risk your own bike, my friend, let alone the family jewels to pursue life’s most closely held dreams and ambitions.
Before you embarrass yourself further, perhaps you should back off mate, you go too far. BP seems a decent and good man, I don’t really know, you are free to dispute that. I object strongly, however, to your self-aggrandizing monopoly of the moral high ground.
BP, good on ya mate, may the Phoenix rise gloriously from the ashes of destruction, and the Lion roar once more. Life is short my friend; take no names, kick some ass, and make it count!!
Last edited by bugg smasher; 8th Jul 2003 at 22:16.
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Seems like alot of people cannot assume their identity and standby their statements....Lack of testicules I guess, losers!
May the Lion roar again. I believe most of us were paid for the time we worked, but our "legal" contracts were not respected. Unfortunately, that is the name of the game when you are off-shore and work for small companies.......Good luck to all.
May the Lion roar again. I believe most of us were paid for the time we worked, but our "legal" contracts were not respected. Unfortunately, that is the name of the game when you are off-shore and work for small companies.......Good luck to all.
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@ palebird,
Ah, here you are again... You're wrong as usual: Every salary to my knowledge (in accordance with the listing / calculations made by accounts) was paid out. I even paid those three people who went to that union who stirred all that crap but did nothing to help. After over a year one pilot claims he didn't get one month of salary but my bank statement says otherwise. Due to the long time I was unable to track where that money went to.
What wasn't paid was your 500'000 USD claim / law suit for unfair dismissal!
Further, the government was supposed to pay the notice period but didn’t in most cases. Without that union incident I could have paid a part of it.
‘Poor management’ and ‘with a fortune in his back pocket’: I’ve commented on that before… ‘If you think the answer lies in the courts well good luck.’ – You simply don’t know what you’re talking about!
@ bugg smasher,
Thanks M8, it’s nice to see that there are some decent people on this forum.
“Better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all” – you couldn’t have put it in better words.
@ Bozzo,
I agree with you to a certain extent regarding the ‘weasel’. I was mistaken when I believed that I could control that guy. He ended up filling is pockets but what goes around, comes around. Now he’s paying a terrible price: Today he’s in a situation where he is in desperate need for friends and has none left.
@ alapt
Thanks M8 (in the name of all 38 attendants), I still have that taste of your wonderful BBQ work
in my mouth. See you soon. 
It’s truly amazing that the handful of guys who spit poison on me in this forum are about the same that were themselves a ‘contributing factor’ to what went on at Cargo Lion. And they do it anonymously on this forum without giving away their identity to the average reader. For those few who still have a doubt on mine: BeePee = Bertram Pohl. I never claimed that I didn’t make mistakes; neither did I claim that this wasn’t a contributing factor. However none of these contributing factors were the direct cause of what happened.
Who knows once all that legal crap going on at the moment is over and provided me getting hungry again, maybe there could be a Phoenix rising again? But it won’t be soon. So for all those who think they can do it better please do it as right now this industry needs some brilliant minds to come up with new ideas (and companies, jobs, etc.).
Cheers
BeePee
Ah, here you are again... You're wrong as usual: Every salary to my knowledge (in accordance with the listing / calculations made by accounts) was paid out. I even paid those three people who went to that union who stirred all that crap but did nothing to help. After over a year one pilot claims he didn't get one month of salary but my bank statement says otherwise. Due to the long time I was unable to track where that money went to.
What wasn't paid was your 500'000 USD claim / law suit for unfair dismissal!
Further, the government was supposed to pay the notice period but didn’t in most cases. Without that union incident I could have paid a part of it.‘Poor management’ and ‘with a fortune in his back pocket’: I’ve commented on that before… ‘If you think the answer lies in the courts well good luck.’ – You simply don’t know what you’re talking about!
@ bugg smasher,
Thanks M8, it’s nice to see that there are some decent people on this forum.
“Better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all” – you couldn’t have put it in better words.
@ Bozzo,
I agree with you to a certain extent regarding the ‘weasel’. I was mistaken when I believed that I could control that guy. He ended up filling is pockets but what goes around, comes around. Now he’s paying a terrible price: Today he’s in a situation where he is in desperate need for friends and has none left.
@ alapt
Thanks M8 (in the name of all 38 attendants), I still have that taste of your wonderful BBQ work
in my mouth. See you soon. It’s truly amazing that the handful of guys who spit poison on me in this forum are about the same that were themselves a ‘contributing factor’ to what went on at Cargo Lion. And they do it anonymously on this forum without giving away their identity to the average reader. For those few who still have a doubt on mine: BeePee = Bertram Pohl. I never claimed that I didn’t make mistakes; neither did I claim that this wasn’t a contributing factor. However none of these contributing factors were the direct cause of what happened.
Who knows once all that legal crap going on at the moment is over and provided me getting hungry again, maybe there could be a Phoenix rising again? But it won’t be soon. So for all those who think they can do it better please do it as right now this industry needs some brilliant minds to come up with new ideas (and companies, jobs, etc.).
Cheers
BeePee
Last edited by BeePee; 11th Jul 2003 at 21:32.
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always a shame to see grown ups cat fighting in public,its all down to money in the end.shame to after cargolion's demise, that the uk's premier cargo operator .milton keynes airways steps into the void
back to original post,aer turas still hold an aoc i guess and the phoenix can rise again
back to original post,aer turas still hold an aoc i guess and the phoenix can rise again
Aer Turas
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aer turas still hold an aoc i guess and the phoenix can rise again
Many operations do return from the ashes - Transaer is back (well vaguely!) as EU-Jetops for example.
Any inside info on the fate of the two DC8's ? EI-CGO and EI-BNA
- rumours circulating saying that BNA is to be b/u in Marena.
I read on another news thread that it has reached its max hours (although on paper seems to have less cycles/hours than CGO).
Presumably its in poor condition due to being in storage so long.
G.
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I can assure you that EI-BNA is definitely not flying fo DHL! It is in Marana, Arizona at the evergreen facility under an IAA approved storage programme.
It would be perfectly OK to fly for many more years to come but needs a 'D' check and is only stage II noise. It would also need TCAS and RVSM fitted and is not RNAV compliant. So the cost if getting it flying is high.
It's a shame as she was a great aircraft, original freighter so no problems with the cargo door etc.
It would be perfectly OK to fly for many more years to come but needs a 'D' check and is only stage II noise. It would also need TCAS and RVSM fitted and is not RNAV compliant. So the cost if getting it flying is high.
It's a shame as she was a great aircraft, original freighter so no problems with the cargo door etc.