Aer Turas shut down today!
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Aer Turas shut down today!
Just got several calls from some friends:
Today Aer Turas went into receivership!
The company called all employees today to break the news. Sounds like this is the end of it. Some guys are owed big time in terms of salaries. 
The final nail in the coffin was a seized #2 engine on their DC8-63F which is now sitting in OST. They have had cash flow problems since quite some time and each simple mxx problem became extended AOG due to the lack of spares.
At the end they had a pretty good contract with TMA but it wasn’t good enough to turn the tide.
As far as I know the disappearance of Aer Turas means that there is no independent JAR Ops freight AOC left at all. This should make people think. Why is it that all European freight airlines go bust?! Maybe it is time that politicians start to act and protect the interests of European Airlines against so called ‘Third World Airlines’ that are nothing but AOC of convenience busting the market with their low cost – low quality – low safety standards operations.
Time are tough and my sympathy to all those guys. I hope that PC does what I did and pays all back pay out of private pocket.
Good luck to all
BeePee
Today Aer Turas went into receivership!
The company called all employees today to break the news. Sounds like this is the end of it. Some guys are owed big time in terms of salaries. The final nail in the coffin was a seized #2 engine on their DC8-63F which is now sitting in OST. They have had cash flow problems since quite some time and each simple mxx problem became extended AOG due to the lack of spares.
At the end they had a pretty good contract with TMA but it wasn’t good enough to turn the tide.
As far as I know the disappearance of Aer Turas means that there is no independent JAR Ops freight AOC left at all. This should make people think. Why is it that all European freight airlines go bust?! Maybe it is time that politicians start to act and protect the interests of European Airlines against so called ‘Third World Airlines’ that are nothing but AOC of convenience busting the market with their low cost – low quality – low safety standards operations.
Time are tough and my sympathy to all those guys. I hope that PC does what I did and pays all back pay out of private pocket.
Good luck to all
BeePee
Last edited by BeePee; 4th Jul 2003 at 05:09.
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always sad when a company ends, the dc8, was that ex lxacv/cxbjv ..from days gone by??
As for jar aoc independants in europe goes couple of good icelandic prospects in the small market and one very large happy wide body operator still around,and yes the low cost(?) operators
i wish all the employees of aer turas good luck in their futures and safe landings wherever they may go,maybe MOL can find the secret to a low cost jar operator and turn the tables on the jackals
As for jar aoc independants in europe goes couple of good icelandic prospects in the small market and one very large happy wide body operator still around,and yes the low cost(?) operators
i wish all the employees of aer turas good luck in their futures and safe landings wherever they may go,maybe MOL can find the secret to a low cost jar operator and turn the tables on the jackals
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@ Hwel,
'independent JAR Ops freight AOC' for international traffic. 'independent' defined as not being part of, dependent on or otherwise controlled by a major carrier, government, major corporation, etc. So we are talking about a nice operation owned and managed by private individuals who are using their private money.
I’m not talking about small local AOCs either. Are Channex still operating the A300s, I thought they had gotten rid of them?
BTW: Iceland is part of the JAA thus their airlines are JAR.
Cheers
BeePee
'independent JAR Ops freight AOC' for international traffic. 'independent' defined as not being part of, dependent on or otherwise controlled by a major carrier, government, major corporation, etc. So we are talking about a nice operation owned and managed by private individuals who are using their private money.
I’m not talking about small local AOCs either. Are Channex still operating the A300s, I thought they had gotten rid of them?
BTW: Iceland is part of the JAA thus their airlines are JAR.
Cheers
BeePee
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Didn't want to start a contest of finding if there are still some independent operators out there. That's why I said "As far as I know".
The point is that JAR Ops cargo airlines are going bust because they can't compete with the cost, quality and safety busters. Without European cargo airlines we have to rely on those operators who have a terrible track record - no names mentioned here. Everybody knows what I'm talking about.
Cheers
BeePee
The point is that JAR Ops cargo airlines are going bust because they can't compete with the cost, quality and safety busters. Without European cargo airlines we have to rely on those operators who have a terrible track record - no names mentioned here. Everybody knows what I'm talking about.
Cheers
BeePee
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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“a nice operation owned and managed by private individuals who are using their private money”
Don’t know much about the Aer Turas operation being described above, but here in the US we have a few DC-8 freight operators who would more closely be described as;
“a ratbag ragtag operation owned and managed by nasty individuals who are using other people’s private money” (They rain nuts and bolts on houses every takeoff.)
Must be nice to be European.
Don’t know much about the Aer Turas operation being described above, but here in the US we have a few DC-8 freight operators who would more closely be described as;
“a ratbag ragtag operation owned and managed by nasty individuals who are using other people’s private money” (They rain nuts and bolts on houses every takeoff.)
Must be nice to be European.
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@ bugg smasher,
"Must be nice to be European." - not anymore
“a ratbag ragtag operation owned and managed by nasty individuals who are using other people’s private money” (They rain nuts and bolts on houses every takeoff.) - that's exactly my point! And that's the main direction Europe has chosen to take!
I used to be one of those 'private individuals who owned and managed their operation'. I'm still trying to pay the banks but at least I made sure that everybody got their pay check at the end.
Yes I made mistakes as well but that wasn't the reason why we went down. At least I can sleep well at night.
Greetings
BeePee
"Must be nice to be European." - not anymore
“a ratbag ragtag operation owned and managed by nasty individuals who are using other people’s private money” (They rain nuts and bolts on houses every takeoff.) - that's exactly my point!
And that's the main direction Europe has chosen to take! I used to be one of those 'private individuals who owned and managed their operation'. I'm still trying to pay the banks but at least I made sure that everybody got their pay check at the end.
Yes I made mistakes as well but that wasn't the reason why we went down. At least I can sleep well at night.
Greetings
BeePee
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Sorry to hear it....my first experience of Aer Turas was their DC-4 running horses into Cambridge in the seventies.
BTW, does anyone know what happened to the people from the L-1011 operation out of STN in '98? Nearly took a job there once.
BTW, does anyone know what happened to the people from the L-1011 operation out of STN in '98? Nearly took a job there once.
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Yes, sadly Aer Turas has ceased operations and a receiver has been appointed. The company gave it it's best shot, but alas, it wasn't to be.
The DC8-63F EI-CGO had an engine problem and that was the nail in the coffin, there was no other option and the ethical and honourable course was taken.
The company started flying way back in 1962 with a DeHavilland Dragon Rapide and down though the years operated a wide variety of Aircraft including;
DC3
DC4
DC6
DC8
CL44
Britannia
Bristol Freighter
L1011 Passenger aircraft
When things were good, they really were good. DC8 operations on long term wet leases for Saudia, Aer Lingus and DHL. Sadly, those contracts dried up as EI got their A330's and Saudi got a whole fleet of MD11-F's. This necessitated parking DC8-63F EI-BNA out in Marana where it still lies.
So a sad day for everyone involved, many people have been here 20+ years. The CEO joined circa 1968 and was responsible for Aer Turas joining the Jet age and getting these lucrative contracts. And of course down to through the years we have taken some of the worlds finest thoroughbreds from Ireland to the US/UK/France/UAE etc.
BeePee, I think you should be honest and admit that not every airline CEO has the vast family wealth that you do to fall back on, that would enable you to pay creditors out of your back pocket. That's the not the case for someone like PC who has no fall back like that.
And please do not post his name on this forum like that, I gathered on PPRuNE that private names were not to be used.
In the meantime, if anyone knows airlines that can take a group of excellent DC8 crewmembers post the information here.
And before anyone asks, I am not the (ex)CEO, I do/did work in the office here and have many happy memories from my time spent here.
The DC8-63F EI-CGO had an engine problem and that was the nail in the coffin, there was no other option and the ethical and honourable course was taken.
The company started flying way back in 1962 with a DeHavilland Dragon Rapide and down though the years operated a wide variety of Aircraft including;
DC3
DC4
DC6
DC8
CL44
Britannia
Bristol Freighter
L1011 Passenger aircraft
When things were good, they really were good. DC8 operations on long term wet leases for Saudia, Aer Lingus and DHL. Sadly, those contracts dried up as EI got their A330's and Saudi got a whole fleet of MD11-F's. This necessitated parking DC8-63F EI-BNA out in Marana where it still lies.
So a sad day for everyone involved, many people have been here 20+ years. The CEO joined circa 1968 and was responsible for Aer Turas joining the Jet age and getting these lucrative contracts. And of course down to through the years we have taken some of the worlds finest thoroughbreds from Ireland to the US/UK/France/UAE etc.
BeePee, I think you should be honest and admit that not every airline CEO has the vast family wealth that you do to fall back on, that would enable you to pay creditors out of your back pocket. That's the not the case for someone like PC who has no fall back like that.
And please do not post his name on this forum like that, I gathered on PPRuNE that private names were not to be used.
In the meantime, if anyone knows airlines that can take a group of excellent DC8 crewmembers post the information here.
And before anyone asks, I am not the (ex)CEO, I do/did work in the office here and have many happy memories from my time spent here.
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ok we all should admit AerTuras experienced very strong competition from AIA and recently from Azerbajan/SilkAir and defenately JAR OPS AOC is much more costly than 3rd world AOC.
from other point during last half a year or more they had a pretty good utilization on daily runs ex CAI and AMM, I would even say very good for old narrowbody freighter. if after that operator of single airplane went into receivership just becuase of the engine blown and no money to cover replacement - something was really wrong. either contract terms/rates or management. just my $0.02
Maybe it is time that politicians start to act and protect the interests of European Airlines against so called ‘Third World Airlines’ that are nothing but AOC of convenience busting the market with their low cost – low quality – low safety standards operations"
BeePee
airlines are not disappearing just because they cannot compete with 3rd world AOC holders. I'm quite sure you are still aware of today DC8 adhoc/acmi market involving Europe as destionation/origin. all charter brokers I know are pretty happy with AIA services and flexibility. So "low quality" is not the point. "Low safety standarts"? It depends. If we are talking about MK - yes. But what's about AIA? They are more active on adhoc at this stage. At least at this moment I never heard about any accident related to them, so it is not 100% true to combine 3rd world AOC and "low safety" into one thing. Low cost? Yep, that's the point. However you missed AirAtlanta, who growing every day, Channex, Atlantic to name but a few, even considering UK is most expensive country on our planet for AOC placement. As I mentioned above, if airline having 1 airplane utilized at max possible goes into receivership becuase of the engine - something wrong inside, not outside.
from other point during last half a year or more they had a pretty good utilization on daily runs ex CAI and AMM, I would even say very good for old narrowbody freighter. if after that operator of single airplane went into receivership just becuase of the engine blown and no money to cover replacement - something was really wrong. either contract terms/rates or management. just my $0.02
Maybe it is time that politicians start to act and protect the interests of European Airlines against so called ‘Third World Airlines’ that are nothing but AOC of convenience busting the market with their low cost – low quality – low safety standards operations"
BeePee
airlines are not disappearing just because they cannot compete with 3rd world AOC holders. I'm quite sure you are still aware of today DC8 adhoc/acmi market involving Europe as destionation/origin. all charter brokers I know are pretty happy with AIA services and flexibility. So "low quality" is not the point. "Low safety standarts"? It depends. If we are talking about MK - yes. But what's about AIA? They are more active on adhoc at this stage. At least at this moment I never heard about any accident related to them, so it is not 100% true to combine 3rd world AOC and "low safety" into one thing. Low cost? Yep, that's the point. However you missed AirAtlanta, who growing every day, Channex, Atlantic to name but a few, even considering UK is most expensive country on our planet for AOC placement. As I mentioned above, if airline having 1 airplane utilized at max possible goes into receivership becuase of the engine - something wrong inside, not outside.
Last edited by CargoOne; 4th Jul 2003 at 04:15.
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CargoOne, Utilisation was not great. There was no "daily runs" ex CAI and AMM, in fact it went as low as 100 hrs per month. When you're also running at rock bottom rates and have one aircraft flying and that aircraft goes tech, you have no revenues coming in. It's simple ABC's. The margins are so tight nowadays.
You need in excess of 200 hours per month to really get into the black, post Sep 11th, those opportunities just aren't there. The market is still very slack and companies can squeeze the life out of operators.
CargoOne, please get your facts right before making comments and guessing on the circumstances. You're way off the mark.
You need in excess of 200 hours per month to really get into the black, post Sep 11th, those opportunities just aren't there. The market is still very slack and companies can squeeze the life out of operators.
CargoOne, please get your facts right before making comments and guessing on the circumstances. You're way off the mark.
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AerCargo
sounds strange. sometime (say 1/2 year or even before) ago I asked brokers to quote me subcharter on a DC8, specifiying that I would prefer to deal with AerTuras as one and only EU operator (T/R issues), and they all said "ahhh you know they are not available because now they doing daily CAI-OST (or BRU or MST? cannot remember) instead of this funny "stage III" Egyptian 707 (AirMemphis). later on I heard you swiched to AMM for TMA for the similar daily runs, and daily run means 200+ hours a month. I'm not pretending to be 100% competent on AerTuras, but what I've said is based on my talks with brokers, and brokers would not deny me from chartering one airline instead of other because they would have their commision in any case.
sounds strange. sometime (say 1/2 year or even before) ago I asked brokers to quote me subcharter on a DC8, specifiying that I would prefer to deal with AerTuras as one and only EU operator (T/R issues), and they all said "ahhh you know they are not available because now they doing daily CAI-OST (or BRU or MST? cannot remember) instead of this funny "stage III" Egyptian 707 (AirMemphis). later on I heard you swiched to AMM for TMA for the similar daily runs, and daily run means 200+ hours a month. I'm not pretending to be 100% competent on AerTuras, but what I've said is based on my talks with brokers, and brokers would not deny me from chartering one airline instead of other because they would have their commision in any case.
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@ AerCargo,
OK, changed my first post according your wish.
Regarding the source of the funding to pay the backlog of salaries at the end, well, you're totally wrong. I went and got personal bank loans to come up with that cash. Today I owe the banks more money than I ever invested into Cargo Lion in the first place. Yes, some hopefully distand day I'll inherit enough to service that debt. But life goes on and there is no reason for regrets. If I hadn't payed the staff I couldn't sleep well. Today I'm still in close contact with many of them (this years BBQ we were 38!) and some went to Aer Turas. PC can do it as well. He'll find ways.
@ CargoOne,
Sorry m8 but you are wrong. Earlier I purposely said "no names mentioned". But as you so strongly mention AIA: Yes they are operating on an AOC of convenience but at least they always upheld standards and prices. They are among the few who try to run a professional operation and they haven't created the kind of pressure that causes the JAR Ops operators to go down.
But nevertheless the large number so called ‘Third World Airlines’ and our politicians are responsible. Show me one JAR Ops operator in this market with sustained success. At the moment maybe the Icelandics might do it. We'll see.
Greetings
BeePee
OK, changed my first post according your wish.
Regarding the source of the funding to pay the backlog of salaries at the end, well, you're totally wrong. I went and got personal bank loans to come up with that cash. Today I owe the banks more money than I ever invested into Cargo Lion in the first place. Yes, some hopefully distand day I'll inherit enough to service that debt. But life goes on and there is no reason for regrets. If I hadn't payed the staff I couldn't sleep well. Today I'm still in close contact with many of them (this years BBQ we were 38!) and some went to Aer Turas. PC can do it as well. He'll find ways.
@ CargoOne,
Sorry m8 but you are wrong. Earlier I purposely said "no names mentioned". But as you so strongly mention AIA: Yes they are operating on an AOC of convenience but at least they always upheld standards and prices. They are among the few who try to run a professional operation and they haven't created the kind of pressure that causes the JAR Ops operators to go down.
But nevertheless the large number so called ‘Third World Airlines’ and our politicians are responsible. Show me one JAR Ops operator in this market with sustained success. At the moment maybe the Icelandics might do it. We'll see.
Greetings
BeePee
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I'll miss seeing the graceful working museum peice that was EI-CGO on its occasional visits back to Dublin. DC8's are a dying breed - particularly ones which weren't re-engined with CFM units in the 1980's.
How many air hours did that aircraft have? Apparently DC8 airframes are cabable of extraordinary total air hours.
The DC8 must have been very difficult to source spares for at this stage - there are only a handful of 63F series left.
I think an orbiturary for the cargo operator would be more fitting than an inquest into why it has gone under.
That an ex-employee can speak so highly of Aer Turas at this sort of news means it must have been an especially good place to work. TransAer (now returned from the ashes as EU Jet-ops) is another company I've heard similar employee praise from.
I wonder what will become of the two DC8's - probably scrappage - although I hope they can be returned to flight. I'm quite young so I can only remember as far back as Aer Turas having the Canadair CL44's but I'd love to know more of its past - I'd say there are some interesting stories!
G.
How many air hours did that aircraft have? Apparently DC8 airframes are cabable of extraordinary total air hours.
The DC8 must have been very difficult to source spares for at this stage - there are only a handful of 63F series left.
I think an orbiturary for the cargo operator would be more fitting than an inquest into why it has gone under.
That an ex-employee can speak so highly of Aer Turas at this sort of news means it must have been an especially good place to work. TransAer (now returned from the ashes as EU Jet-ops) is another company I've heard similar employee praise from.
I wonder what will become of the two DC8's - probably scrappage - although I hope they can be returned to flight. I'm quite young so I can only remember as far back as Aer Turas having the Canadair CL44's but I'd love to know more of its past - I'd say there are some interesting stories!
G.
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BeePee,
OK, if you admit AIA is a good operation and keeping the price level, then is comes more interesing: if they can support 4x DC8 operation and no signs they going buncrupt while operating offshore, then why it happend to AerTuras? There are only 4 DC8F operators on European market for last few years (AerTuras, AIA, MK and Silk; Silk came in less than a year ago), so why AT failed, especially considering they were only EU operator with no t/r issues ex/to EU? Do you think it have something to do with a crew salaries? I doubt.
OK, if you admit AIA is a good operation and keeping the price level, then is comes more interesing: if they can support 4x DC8 operation and no signs they going buncrupt while operating offshore, then why it happend to AerTuras? There are only 4 DC8F operators on European market for last few years (AerTuras, AIA, MK and Silk; Silk came in less than a year ago), so why AT failed, especially considering they were only EU operator with no t/r issues ex/to EU? Do you think it have something to do with a crew salaries? I doubt.