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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

Old 25th Aug 2016, 02:05
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Its a relief to read that the Airlander air and ground crew are all safe and well. 10 tons pushing them into the ground will no doubt be the subject of future nightmares.

Given that the cockpit was the bit that got bent, it is reassuring to see that either by luck or good design the Airlander did not get a mind of its own. As the 2007 Etihad A340 ground running accident in Toulouse demonstrated, loss or damage to the cockpit can make it very difficult to shut engines and other systems down.

A likely outcome of this incident will be an accelerated push for fully vectoring front propulsors, as they currently appear to be limited to a few degrees, with the rest done by the vanes in the propwash. The sideways facing bow thruster on top of the nose, which featured in early artists impressions, is also noticeably missing. Whilst it may not have helped with today's bump, more control in all axis will no doubt be on the test pilot's shopping list.

With regard to applications for Airlanders, moving 33 tons of Airbus A380 wing from Broughton to Toulouse by something other than the current barge/ship/lorry palaver must be a job that is crying out for the Airlander 50.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 02:21
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Originally Posted by notapilot15 View Post
I think it is a good idea. May be these will become RVs of the air providing cheap leisure travel.
At $35 million a copy, how many people are in a position to consider that a "cheap" recreational plaything?
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 03:22
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Suddenly makes zillions of places with no large airport and even no roads accessible by air. Of course, members of this forum all tend to be found near airports.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 03:44
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
Suddenly makes zillions of places with no large airport and even no roads accessible by air.
Can you give me a couple of examples of these places which also have a significant demand for people to go there? ? If there's "zillions" it shouldn't be hard.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 04:14
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Could be towed behind a pair of chinooks? Or an above water cable bridge across to Europe to help steer it against the winds? Other than that, would only be good on calm clear days and not much of a schedule could ever be planned. Any heavy big money item will have a demanding schedule attached to it.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 05:34
  #226 (permalink)  
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The Sun and the DM (and we all that if it's in the DM, it must be true!), that it hit a Telegraph pole.


Maybe some cabling caught??
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 06:33
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Mechta:

"moving 33 tons of Airbus A380 wing from Broughton to Toulouse by something other than the
current barge/ship/lorry palaver must be a job that is crying out for the Airlander 50"

Don't shout too loud. Someone will start to ask why the wings are not made in Toulouse.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 07:50
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Given the current infra structure for the 380 wing move is well established, and given that that there are questions being asked about 380 production rate, production line future etc, I really don't think the 380 wing move is even close to being a " killer app."
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 09:42
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The cabin survived this low speed incident. The total weight of the craft without a payload, is 20000kg.
The airship, like a balloon, is unusual in that it can crash and even with cockpit damaged can become airborn and remain so.

So it follows that the cockpit and flight controls should be designed to take a crash and bounce so the crew can regain control.

Is it feasible for the entire gondola to have a similar space built above it where it can be retracted in an emergency?
Spent a day in the Fuji airship over London. Bloomin marvellous!

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Old 25th Aug 2016, 09:55
  #230 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
The airship, like a balloon, is unusual in that it can crash and even with cockpit damaged can become airborn and remain so.
The Airlander is stated to be only 60% buoyant (though it is unclear whether that is unladen or laden), so, removing forward motion (which is said to contribute 40%) and thrust from the engines (25%) it would remain 'grounded'.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 12:21
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Airlander media statement 24th August

"Today the prototype Airlander 10 undertook its second test flight and flew for 100 minutes, completing all the planned tasks before returning to Cardington to land. The Airlander experienced a heavy landing and the front of the flight deck has sustained some damage which is currently being assessed. Both pilots and the ground crew are safe and well and the aircraft is secured and stable at its normal mooring location. Hybrid Air Vehicles runs a robust set of procedures for flight test activities and investigation of issues. We will be running through these in the days ahead as we continue the development of the Airlander aircraft. Further updates will follow in due course"
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 13:25
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Whilst I too am sceptical of the economics and practicality of Airlander, I'm not at all sure that carrying cauliflowers, or indeed any sort of perishable goods, is seen as a key target role! The current Airlander 10 seems to be being promoted as a prototype with the Airlander 50, with its 50 ton payload as the more commercially attractive version. Presumably the costs of scaling up would not be that great.

The low speed flight issues demonstrated by the landing 'mishap' must be causing considerable concern for the design team. With considerable lift, and hence control, available by virtue of forward motion the problems of loss of that control when landing must be great. As a glider pilot, I can see that one end of an Airlander could well be in air going up at 500 feet per minute or more whilst the other end is in the matching sink. How you stop such a low density gas bag rotating as a result, I don't know. Someone else can do the sums, but I suspect that it would require far more power than is available from the vectored thrust engines.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 14:04
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Originally Posted by A Squared View Post
At $35 million a copy, how many people are in a position to consider that a "cheap" recreational plaything?
Once Nigel perfects flying this balloon, stitching will be outsourced to China. Load 48 rich retirees, set off on a voyage around the world. Have a doctor, FAs with assisted living experience, WiFi to facetime with grand kids and wire transfer facility to send more money to blimp operator. They will be the happiest passengers.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 14:23
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I think it is lacking vectored thrust towards the rear. The two forward thrusters don't seem to be man enough and the two aft "pushers" might not vector down or up sufficiently to make any difference in a situation like this.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 15:14
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Surely all this was worked out 100 years ago by Zeppelin et al?
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 15:52
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The world's longest aircraft came into contact with "high voltage power cables" before nosediving on landing, an electricity firm has said.
Developers of the Airlander 10 had denied witness reports the airship struck a telegraph pole during its "heavy landing" on Wednesday.
But UK Power Networks said the aircraft had come into contact with one of its power lines.
Hybrid Air Vehicles said a mooring line had been in "contact" with a cable.

Airlander 10: Longest aircraft hit power cable before nosediving - BBC News

Last edited by beamender99; 25th Aug 2016 at 15:55. Reason: link with more info added
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 15:56
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Originally Posted by NorthSouth View Post
Surely all this was worked out 100 years ago by Zeppelin et al?
and yet, people still think it's something new and exciting...

Now it's crashed just like so many of them before, are we not learning?
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 16:11
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The company apparently IMMEDIATELY denied a witness report that it had struck power lines.

Why?

Corporations today really ought to be extremely conscious of how bad their image is becoming due, perhaps in part, to their seemingly limitless willingness to lie instantly about anything.

What could it cost them to say, instead, that they were investigating reports of the beast having struck a power line, rather than having to admit later on that their initial response was incorrect?
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 16:18
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Now it's crashed just like so many of them before, are we not learning?

In a way we are: the A380 made a nearly four hour first flight, a low pass then final approach over Toulouse. And it didn't crash!
The blimp brigade are denying that air transport has moved on.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 16:32
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Early reports said that it was a mooring cable that struck the power lines. Perhaps the same mooring line got caught on the ground pulling the nose down? It's a potential problem that glider pilots understand.
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