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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

Old 18th Aug 2016, 15:18
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They also have a big enough surface area and a low enough power requirement that the modern lightweight solar panels as seen on the solar aircraft that just flew round the world might actually provide a significant proportion of the power requirement.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 15:22
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It's going to make watching "Ice road truckers" a bit boring though.

take off
fly
land
repeat
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 15:22
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I've thought of some uses.

Ultra endurance ISR obviously.

Ultra long range SAR. (mid Atlantic)

Long range/endurance ASW. Potentially extremely quiet and easily fast enough to track a sub in all but the windiest days.

Airborne cruise liner.

I'd pay to see some of the worlds amazing spots from the air. Imagine Machu Pichu from a smooth slow quiet platform...
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 15:52
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The AirLander would, in my opinion, be an excellent option for humanitarian aid flights where runways are limited and in short supply.

Imagine how useful an AirLander would've been just after the awful Nepal earthquakes
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 16:09
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Originally Posted by oldchina
Are they going to get someone from the Swiss Railways to ensure it runs on time?

What time? What timetable? How to build a schedule without huge margins for weather delays?

It all sounds too technically minded and not commercially convincing.

Longer than an A380 with half the payload of an A320.
There is a niche market for these in transporting and delivering/placing loads like say a 10 ton transformer to a remote location and placing it accurately on its 'plinth' . The task would otherwise require remaking roads, long careful low-loader transport then cranes with the site prepared for the cranes. I would think that operations in remote areas could keep a small fleet busy. There may also be a task to deliver offshore windmills to their sites or carrying maintenance crews to offshore windmills and delivering them to the gearbox nacelle by winching them down. There are no shortages of potential tasks.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 16:17
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Biggest cause of failure of the early airships was that they used hydrogen. Modern airships use helium, which is not flammable.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 16:32
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how it works

60% lift from buoyancy, 40% lift from aerodynamics, +/- 25% from vectored thrust.

I assume that's a very simplified account of what really happens - obviously at take off it can only have a maximum of 85% lift, and climbs, but in the cruise with 100% it has to stay level
and that's without mentioning the 10t of cargo it may or may not have
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 17:00
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The ground handling is a pain, it needs huge hangars nobody has to safely store it and ops are weather dependant like nobody else's while the cost are high and payloads and speeds are low.

Still not convinced?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 17:37
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
The ground handling is a pain
Compared to what?
Lets compare it to an airliner.
That needs an enormous runway at every single place it ever lands. Lets say for an A380 in excess of a billion £ for an airport.

Originally Posted by Less Hair
it needs huge hangars nobody has to safely store it
Well, build them at the places it needs storing?

Originally Posted by Less Hair
ops are weather dependant like nobody else's
I will agree with that in part, because he weather problems are different, but not necessarily worse. How many other aircraft can just move out the way of a weather system for a day till it passes?

Originally Posted by Less Hair
while the cost are high and payloads and speeds are low.
Far too early to have any chance of making that statement. For many uses, it's average speed to destination of load may be spectacularly faster, and costs may be orders of magnitude cheaper.
Many loads have entire roads built purely for a single cargo.
Entirely dependant on load and destination.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 18:01
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Originally Posted by Ian W
There is a niche market for these in transporting and delivering/placing loads like say a 10 ton transformer to a remote location and placing it accurately on its 'plinth' . The task would otherwise require remaking roads, long careful low-loader transport then cranes with the site prepared for the cranes. I would think that operations in remote areas could keep a small fleet busy. There may also be a task to deliver offshore windmills to their sites or carrying maintenance crews to offshore windmills and delivering them to the gearbox nacelle by winching them down. There are no shortages of potential tasks.
Sounds to me as though, in order to accomplish these sort of tasks, the craft would require an "auto-hover" capability. Which, for what is effectively a huge sail, would be something of a challenge.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 21:11
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Not really any different than all the rig support vessels and numerous other ships that have similar tasks. With 4 ducted fans, it should be possible?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 21:51
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The physics involved is beyond me but the differences in mass and surface area combined with the difference between the media in which these vessels operate would make this something of an over-simplification. wouldn't it?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 23:15
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Could be interesting if it got caught in a heavy rain shower while carrying a maximum load? All that surface area carrying a few millimetres of water is going to add tons (tonnes) of extra weight. I assume the designers have factored this into their calculations to give an adequate safety margin of lift.
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 00:09
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Presumably, the current trials are without the 10 tonne payload.

How will they compensate for the additional weight

Total weight is quoted to be 20 tonnes - does that include the payload or will it gross at 30 tonnes?
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 05:07
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10
Biggest cause of failure of the early airships was that they used hydrogen. Modern airships use helium, which is not flammable.
A whole bunch of airship crashed with no fire, or crashed and caught fire as a result of the crash, which is distinctly different than crashing as a result of fire.
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 05:10
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Originally Posted by Tourist
How many other aircraft can just move out the way of a weather system for a day till it passes?
At 80 knots, the Airlander ainít going to either.
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 05:16
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Originally Posted by Tourist
People with millions to throw around have decided it is worth a punt.
And other people with millions to throw around have already thrown millions at it, and after seeing the results first hand, decided not to throw more millions at it.

The idea that the fact that someone is spending money on it proves it's viable is absurd.
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 07:41
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN
Total weight is quoted to be 20 tonnes - does that include the payload or will it gross at 30 tonnes?
The 20 tonnes quoted is the all-up (gross) weight i.e. empty weight + fuel + payload.
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 08:52
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>The idea that the fact that someone is spending money on it proves it's viable is absurd.

Likewise, the idea that the fact that others have refused to spend more money on it proves that it is not viable, is equally absurd.
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 09:11
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Originally Posted by A Squared
At 80 knots, the Airlander ainít going to either.
Wow!

Must be windy on your planet, because here on earth ships that can only do 17kts seem to manage to move out the way of most nasty weather systems...
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