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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

Old 18th Aug 2016, 07:06
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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

Well, according to the website it's a $50Billion market...
https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/

I just can't fathom how well it can do with headwind or side wind.


The 10 model as seen here will have a bigger brother, the 50 that is supposed to be able to carry 50tons (That's metric Tonnes).
Be nice to see the loading ramps and tie down racks.

Isn't this just a Helium balloon with a few tiny fans for steering?


Flight:
World's largest aircraft the Airlander takes first flight in UK
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 07:12
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Certainly looked impressive and I imagine on a still day it could be quite useful.
Will it get buyers or make $$ for it's makers, in an ongoing market we will have to wait and see.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 08:05
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'world's largest aircraft'..
never heared about the Zeppelins ?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 08:21
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I think they might mean currently!
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 08:53
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Having seen the Cargolifter fail in Germany and the US abandoning this concept any value remains to be proven.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 09:49
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impressive engineering but I doubt it'll sell - too weather dependent TBH
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:36
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Originally Posted by Obba View Post

I just can't fathom how well it can do with headwind or side wind.
It will never have a side wind for more than a moment........

If one appears, it will miraculously disappear almost instantly.

Balloons are funny like that.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:38
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
Having seen the Cargolifter fail in Germany and the US abandoning this concept any value remains to be proven.
Yes, if the Germans and US can't manage it, what chance have some Brits got?

Nice attitude.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:42
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I once had a flight in a smaller blimp out of Cardington. The thing that was noticiable was the large number of ground crew needed. I think they may have had free help from a scout group or Air Cadets or the costs would be significant. Presumably this isn't the case with the air lander?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:46
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Nice attitude.
Maybe better think about your's, my friend.

Huge airships failed 100 years ago. This is why we have aeroplanes today.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:49
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readywhenreaching,

Don't be silly - you can't expect the meeja to remember one war back, never mind two !
 
Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:53
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Airlander 10 Technical Data
Envelope Volume: 38,000 m (1,340,000 ft)
Overall Dimensions: - length 92 m (302 ft) - width 43.5 m (143 ft) - height 26 m (85 ft)
Endurance: 5 days manned
Altitude: up to 16,000 ft (4,880 m)
Speed: - cruise 80 Knots (148 km/hr) - loiter 20 Knots (37 km/hr)
Total Weight: 20,000 kg (44,100 lbs)
Payload capacity: up to 10,000 kg (22,050 lbs)
Envelope
Helium filled, laminated fabric construction hull. The hull’s aerodynamic shape, an elliptical cross-section allied to a cambered longitudinal shape, provides up to 40% of the vehicle’s lift. The internal diaphragms required to support this shape allow for a limited amount of compartmentalisation further enhancing the fail-safe nature of the vehicle. Multiple ballonets located fore and aft in each of the hulls provide pressure control.
Landing System
Profiled pneumatic tubes / skids on the underside of the two outer hulls provide for multi-surface ground operation including amphibious capability. On the production version skids are ‘sucked-in’ for a clean-in-flight profile.
Power Plant
4 x 325 hp, 4 litre V8 direct injection, turbocharged diesel engines. Two engines mounted forward on the hull and two on the stern of the hull for cruise operation. All four are configured with ducts with blown vanes to allow vectored thrust for take-off/landing/ground handling operation.
Cabin and Payload Capability
Located on centreline; comprises 4 primary areas as follows:
Flight Deck:
1 pilot station and one observer seat. (Two pilot station in production version.)
Large transparencies for excellent all-round visibility.
Cabin:
Passenger and/or Payload area measuring 3.2m x 7.2m x 1.7m. Larger area on production version.
Mid-body:
Centreline payload beam for externally slung loads.
Aft-body:
Fuel tanks and additional payload space



Cruise 80kn and usually going to be pobbling around in winds of 10 - 40kn so somewhere between 1000 and 2900 miles a day; probably mostly about 1500nm/day.
Endurance: 5 days manned. Hmm, FTL?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 12:41
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
Maybe better think about your's, my friend.

Huge airships failed 100 years ago. This is why we have aeroplanes today.
You are quite right.

Everything that failed 100yrs ago is impossible forever.
No amount of advances in materials and propulsion technology will make any difference.

Thank you for clearing that up.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 12:48
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So what are the advantages you see in this technology?
A sigint plattform to loiter around for weeks, maybe. A rich man's helicopter? Not.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 13:17
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I don't have a clue!

That is zero reason to say it won't have a use though since I, like you, have done zero research on the subject. People with millions to throw around have decided it is worth a punt.

Great. Well done them for trying something different.

The whole of human history is full of "idiots" trying and retrying stupid ideas.
Imagine if the innovators had given up on helicopters after the first ones didn't work.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 13:24
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Originally Posted by Basil View Post
Airlander 10 Technical Data
Envelope Volume: 38,000 m (1,340,000 ft)
Overall Dimensions: - length 92 m (302 ft) - width 43.5 m (143 ft) - height 26 m (85 ft)
Endurance: 5 days manned
Altitude: up to 16,000 ft (4,880 m)
Speed: - cruise 80 Knots (148 km/hr) - loiter 20 Knots (37 km/hr)
Total Weight: 20,000 kg (44,100 lbs)
Payload capacity: up to 10,000 kg (22,050 lbs)
Envelope
Helium filled, laminated fabric
...
Do you know what the fully laden fuel consumption is?

I can't see the shipping industry feeling threatened.

From the tech link on their site, they claim lift off the upper aerodynamic shape. But they don't seem to have thought out the lower shape. But if they are claiming this lift to be used for payload, then lift will be proportional to airspeed. i.e. if they decide to "loiter", they will descend.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 13:38
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Well, that's one reason why the thrust is vectored, to allow level flight at different speeds. I expect (though I don't know) that the 20kt loiter speed will come with some downward vectoring.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 14:27
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Are they going to get someone from the Swiss Railways to ensure it runs on time?

What time? What timetable? How to build a schedule without huge margins for weather delays?

It all sounds too technically minded and not commercially convincing.

Longer than an A380 with half the payload of an A320.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 14:29
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it took off and landed without 100 chaps on ropes. it did bounce a bit on landing, but it was the first go

it's main advantage seems to be that it doesn't need a runway, like a helicopter, and can carry 10t, unlike a helicopter. and 2 week endurance. which it needs with a 90kt top speed.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 14:33
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Since I've been saying for years that the only use for passenger rail (in most of the US) is to deliver people to the dirigible field, I think I can be counted as something of an LTA skeptic. But with 80 knots in hand, headwinds at AirLander's operating altitudes aren't likely to be a problem; low level winds aloft are usually moderate. And in terms of costs and transit times, headwinds and tailwinds should average out.

One thing to keep in mind is that the earlier failures of LTA were because rigid dirigibles were fragile, and so disaster-prone. Modern design and construction should avoid that, leaving LTA to succeed or fail on economic factors alone; and while AirLander may be too small to carry a payload profitably, dirigibles are the only form of aircraft where the square-cube rule works in their favor.

Last edited by PersonFromPorlock; 18th Aug 2016 at 14:47.
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