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West Atlantic

Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

West Atlantic

Old 28th Jan 2014, 18:03
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MJR
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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West Atlantic

Hi FD's,

I would be grateful for a pm with any Boeing flight crew at West Atlantic.

cheers

MJR
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Old 6th Feb 2014, 23:03
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Hi MJR, and hello to old friends reading this @ AA !


Atlantic from what I hear MJR are recruiting TR drivers to crew the 737's they have acquired. Why you would want to go there ??? Pay is below par, company treats you like crap, you will end up looking like crap flying through the night and to top it off you have to fly with the idiot CP who upgrades himself from what I hear LMFAO. I would stay away !!


Not been on here in a while as I have been busy flying in my new job but I do miss the ATP.I have herd AA are employing low hour drivers.... Why ? They already have great guys on the ATP chomping at the bit to get on the 737 and have put in the work on the ATP,but only a select couple got offered the job internally. If you ask me guys the company is having your pants down get out if you can !!! You all deserve better than what the company are doing to you. Some of the 737 new drivers have got zero or not much more hrs. on type and being paid not much less than you ATP captains takes the P*** rant over !!!
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 09:47
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Pretty well informed for someone who supposedly left ages ago fella? Which airline has the pleasure of your presence now then?
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 15:20
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MJR - treat AA on its merits. Freight is not for everyone and the pay for 737 drivers is below the market norm. But it is a UK based jet job and as I see it they are few and far between at the moment.
The 737's arriving have given the turboprop guys a career progression which they did not have before (unfortunately the big Uk jet employers (RYR, EZY and Jet2) no longer see TP flying as a training route for flying jets). There are a number of Electra skippers now in the RHS of the 737 and a number of ATP guys undergoing training for the 737.
I would say that this is good news for the Company and the ATP drivers.
Market forces will in the end sort out the pay issue.
I would also strongly defend the CP. He is a top guy who, in my experience, tries to treat his pilots fairly within an extremely pressurised environment.
Form your own views!
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 17:58
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The arrival of the 737's have gave hope to the ATP crew but that's all it is!! If there is realistic chance of career progression onto the 73 for them why is the company hiring direct entry pilots for the 737 and some have no experience ?


Before I left there was a long line of suitable FO's ready for upgrade and plenty of well deserving Captain's that should be given the 737 job's. IMO if I was the CP who really looks after his employees the main priority would be to give the Captains who have been working there boll**ks off for the company upgrades on to 73 and recruit more on the ATP and upgrade the FO's who are ready ! Not employ low hour SSTR chaps for the 737 jobs.


I wonder if all the pilots at AA agree with you finals24 on their CP ???
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 19:50
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Viperstings - my read of the situation is that the 737's have come on stream very quickly and the Company has had to juggle with the desire to move turboprop guys (LHS to RHS 737) and recruit TR 737 drivers.
I think that you will find that only a small number of low hours FO's have been recruited in the (desperate) need to crew the 737's for commercial reasons (faster).
There is also the difficulty of moving LHS TP guys into the RHS of the jet (I think it would be very difficult to justify moving LHS to LHS as the 737 is a very different beast to fly and takes a while to adjust - which the guys certainly will). I also believe the the LHS TP guys are paid more than a direct entry 737 FO.

Add these factors together and it perhaps explains AA's strategy. As I said earlier, the arrival of the 737 is very good news for the TP pilots whom I believe are excellent operators and will progress onto the 737. Don't forget that there will now be movement from the 737 fleet to other operators UNLESS AA starts to match the pay of the others. This will create further opportunities for the ATP pilots.

I know it is not the perfect scenario, but it seems to me to make commercial sense and the Company appears to be doing well.
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 21:41
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An Electra Captain can go straight to the 737 as a skipper, it's not a problem.
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 23:16
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I can agree to a certain point finals24 but rumours of the 737's arrival where circulating when I was there months before it was made official. Management at AA did not just wake up one morning and buy them and start operating them next day. There must of been a certain amount of forward planning, which would of been nice to include the people who deserve it. (current ATP crew) but again in my view and personal experience with the company they have been let down again.


@4screwaircrew well pointed out!! Can someone explain how that works oppose to the ATP crew. The Electra crew did have a certain amount of arrogance at AA with the view that they were far superior than the ATP counterparts especially when it looked like they might of been joining us at one point. Plonkers !!


Guys all I can say is that I was over the moon when I started my career at AA but soon got pissed off with the way I felt I was treated when you work so hard for them, with a CP pilot who clearly does not give a dam about the ATP fleet- A little advice if he reading this let the Fleet Captain deal with the ATP he would do a much better job !!!! He is a top guy Finals24. Now I am settled at another airline with great support,run properly and not freight. My advice to the ATP crew I left behind and its something we all talk about while we are in the car being driven around the country get out as soon as you can as its a dead end job, the grass is greener on the other side when it comes to AA !!
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Old 8th Feb 2014, 21:14
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LHS Electra to LHS 737......really???
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Old 9th Feb 2014, 12:38
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Viper. No doubt in time you'll start moaning about your current employer also.
Why not just thank WA for giving you the opportunity to start your career and move on. These guys will get an opportunity sooner rather later
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Old 11th Feb 2014, 19:04
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Viper...its so clear that you still work for WA....why don't you grow a pair and email Steve or Richard with your views?

Stop with this rubbish that you have left the company everyone knows your still here, there are many people at WA who have good idea of who you really are.
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Old 11th Feb 2014, 19:23
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Finals24, indeed myself and a number of colleagues did just that.
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Old 11th Feb 2014, 20:38
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@ livesinafield why don't 90% of the crew at AA grow a pair and email the CP as everyone moans about AA and slags him off behind his back. He is full of shit and all he is concerned about is the 737 and upgrading himself, I can think of a lot more people within AA who deserve his position more than the CP.


But that's aviation it's never the best pilot/person who gets the job - it the person who know how to take it up the a**e and give it lol.
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Old 12th Feb 2014, 20:32
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Finals, the 737 would be easier to fly/operate than the Electra.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 20:51
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I must be missing something here???

Back in the days of airlines operating Electras and B707s/DC8s and B727s wasn't it a normal progression for captains to go LH seat Electra to LH seat Jet?
So what has changed?

Wunwing
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 23:28
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I flew with some former colleagues who transferred left seat turbo prop to left seat jet (Embraer 195) no problem. Pleasure to fly with and taught me a lot even though they had less time on type. I'd say the Electra to 737 would be no problem at a guess. The Electra is quite a demanding type to manage from a command point of view I gather with all the difficulties aged electronics and technology present.
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Old 14th Feb 2014, 00:47
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Originally Posted by Best foot forward View Post
Finals, the 737 would be easier to fly/operate than the Electra.
Yes, sadly after flying the best you eventually have to fly the rest.
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Old 15th Feb 2014, 08:58
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The left seat turboprop to left seat jet can be done. Jet2 did it, transferring guys from the F27 to the B737 and nearly all were fine. Globespan, were taking on Loganair, Saab 340 pilots and having them fly 737NG's to Canada. So, I'm pretty sure many of the Electra and ATP pilots could go direct left seat.......doesn't sound like that is what is happening though.


The ones I have seen struggle seem to fit a type. Older guy, flown X type of aircraft for many years, gash habits and come into the type conversion thinking they are God's gift. There were guys that I worked with at AA like that, but surely there are some ATP and L188 guys able to make the move?


Sounds like exciting things are happening are happening at AA, just not for many of those that have been there for a while and deserve the break.
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Old 15th Feb 2014, 13:25
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The 737 (jet) is just a different beast, not easier or more difficult to fly than a TP, just different. For a start, the aircraft systems have to be learnt and understood and then the SOPs have to be learnt and used.
Yes people have transferred from LHS TP to LHS jet but almost all the major operators these days will do it only on an exceptional basis. Jet2 brought in a lot of LHS guys with jet experience when they introduced the 737 and these days they virtually never bring in LHS TP guys to LHS jet.
There is a reason for this, namely to sit in the LHS of an aeroplane you must have suitable experience of how it flys and how it works. When you are paired with an inexperienced FO there is a huge burden on the LHS and he/she needs the capacity/experience to manage the flight safely.
Surely it boils down to risk assessment? The risk to the operator is substantially reduced if LHS TP guys spend some time in the RHS to learn the new aeroplane and then when he/she is ready (judged by assessment on the line and in the sim) then make the transition to LHS jet.
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Old 16th Feb 2014, 09:16
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MJR
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Thanks for the replies, I would still appreciate a private chat with anyone on the Boeing fleet.


cheers


MJR
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