Three Holers..
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
rockon tommy:
As 411A aptly puts it, if the day of the DC-10 is over why do you imagine that Fedex operates more than 100 of them and intends to for quite a while yet? Don't try to go the US with Northwest from the UK either unless you want to sit in the back of one.
brit bus driver:
I presume that the modified RAF -500s are operating to MOS (Military Operating Standards) at the higher weights and not to Performance 'A'?
Hellcopter:
So you can't get 380 punters in an L1011-500. I am confused for 411A doesn't reckon you can get 360 in either. Has anyone out there flown a -500 with 360 in the back?
In any event, the figures still don't add up. I have resorted to an old copy of Jane's and this gives the following:
L1011-500 MTOW 231.3T
MZFW 153.3T (Max Payload 42.0T)
This leaves 78.0T available for fuel.
DC-10-30 MTOW 263.0T
MZFW 169.5T (Max payload 48.0T)
This leaves 93.5T available for fuel.
Using the RAF figures we have:
MTOW 245.0T
MZFW 159.0T
This leaves 86.0T available for fuel.
So, it seems to me that by sawing 4.11m off of the fuselage they arrived at an aircraft with a similar range with a 6T reduction in payload. That is probably why Fedex are not operating a fleet of L1011-500s but, after all, what do they know about shifting freight?
As 411A aptly puts it, if the day of the DC-10 is over why do you imagine that Fedex operates more than 100 of them and intends to for quite a while yet? Don't try to go the US with Northwest from the UK either unless you want to sit in the back of one.
brit bus driver:
I presume that the modified RAF -500s are operating to MOS (Military Operating Standards) at the higher weights and not to Performance 'A'?
Hellcopter:
So you can't get 380 punters in an L1011-500. I am confused for 411A doesn't reckon you can get 360 in either. Has anyone out there flown a -500 with 360 in the back?
In any event, the figures still don't add up. I have resorted to an old copy of Jane's and this gives the following:
L1011-500 MTOW 231.3T
MZFW 153.3T (Max Payload 42.0T)
This leaves 78.0T available for fuel.
DC-10-30 MTOW 263.0T
MZFW 169.5T (Max payload 48.0T)
This leaves 93.5T available for fuel.
Using the RAF figures we have:
MTOW 245.0T
MZFW 159.0T
This leaves 86.0T available for fuel.
So, it seems to me that by sawing 4.11m off of the fuselage they arrived at an aircraft with a similar range with a 6T reduction in payload. That is probably why Fedex are not operating a fleet of L1011-500s but, after all, what do they know about shifting freight?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: metz, france
The extra doors added are for the British CAA standards. A/C certified for operations under the British Registry had to have the extra doors put in!! That's the CAA for ya!
Oh, and I have had the chance of flying both of these three holers and the "10" definitely wins hands down! Of course the only problem with the 10 is opening the Pax door with no power......
Oh, and I have had the chance of flying both of these three holers and the "10" definitely wins hands down! Of course the only problem with the 10 is opening the Pax door with no power......
Last edited by alapt; 6th May 2002 at 19:45.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
Hellcopter:
You need to pay some money into the bank for your postings are now marked "Account Closed". Does this mean that you have withdrawn from the discussion?
Denzil:
I have just looked up another one of my reference books and it says that Amtran purchased Royal Jordanian -500s JY-AGA to JY-AGE (N160AT-N164AT) and that they are configured to 307Y which is indeed above just above 300 but quite a lot short of the rest of Amtran's L-1011s which are stated as 362Y.
Alapt:
I think you have made the right choice but I have to admit that two of you raising a 410-lb door manually after a total electrical failure is indeed quite interesting. Fear is quite a motivating factor but I always reckoned that I could always manage it out of the DV window with a rope!
You need to pay some money into the bank for your postings are now marked "Account Closed". Does this mean that you have withdrawn from the discussion?
Denzil:
I have just looked up another one of my reference books and it says that Amtran purchased Royal Jordanian -500s JY-AGA to JY-AGE (N160AT-N164AT) and that they are configured to 307Y which is indeed above just above 300 but quite a lot short of the rest of Amtran's L-1011s which are stated as 362Y.
Alapt:
I think you have made the right choice but I have to admit that two of you raising a 410-lb door manually after a total electrical failure is indeed quite interesting. Fear is quite a motivating factor but I always reckoned that I could always manage it out of the DV window with a rope!
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
From: ???
The aircraft converted are not on the UK register so why is that the CAA's fault. I think the config in which you operate the aircraft is what determines the amount of doors, not the aircraft type. All the same this must have been an expensive modification.
Don't the DC10 doors have a nitrogen supply to blow the doors open, must be lighter than that bl00dy big spring to open the L10 doors!!
Don't the DC10 doors have a nitrogen supply to blow the doors open, must be lighter than that bl00dy big spring to open the L10 doors!!
Last edited by Denzil; 6th May 2002 at 22:47.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
That "bloody big spring" on the TriStar has a 15,000 pound pull, enough to put the door into orbit...
The "extra" door in the -500 with high density seating was required due to the distance between L/R 2 and L/R 3....and Delta holds the STC...a cool million..or was it half a million, can't remember, anyway a lot.
The "extra" door in the -500 with high density seating was required due to the distance between L/R 2 and L/R 3....and Delta holds the STC...a cool million..or was it half a million, can't remember, anyway a lot.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: In da north country
At AIA we had 352 pax with upstairs galley configuration on the -200's. That was a bit tight.
That bloody big spring worked very well to open the door without power, but you had to have the slide installed or a counter weight in place of, or the door when opened by the spring, would end up o the the other side of the plane, with much damage to boot. That just gave us lots of beer time !
That bloody big spring worked very well to open the door without power, but you had to have the slide installed or a counter weight in place of, or the door when opened by the spring, would end up o the the other side of the plane, with much damage to boot. That just gave us lots of beer time !
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
DC-10 doors:
Sorry chaps, I am guilty of slovenly writing. What I should have said was "in the event of electrical AND pneumatic failure..".
To the best of my recollection the doors were normally operated(slides disarmed) by an electrical motor. In emergency mode (slides armed) they were operated pneumatically. If all else failed it was possible for two strong chaps to lift it.
I also seem to remember that it was possible to open 1L Door from the outside with a hand crank.
Sorry chaps, I am guilty of slovenly writing. What I should have said was "in the event of electrical AND pneumatic failure..".
To the best of my recollection the doors were normally operated(slides disarmed) by an electrical motor. In emergency mode (slides armed) they were operated pneumatically. If all else failed it was possible for two strong chaps to lift it.
I also seem to remember that it was possible to open 1L Door from the outside with a hand crank.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: freighthold
Mwanza should not be a problem loading fish through a pax door since there is no palletized freight in the first place. Everything is handloaded there, although they got a new beltloader now. (but still only one neon tube)
Remember the Tilapia?
Remember the Tilapia?
Last edited by outoftrimagain; 10th May 2002 at 22:00.
