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DHL Air UK/LEJ ASSESSMENT

Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

DHL Air UK/LEJ ASSESSMENT

Old 20th Jan 2018, 07:51
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 297
I wonder if any of you at DHL can help me with regards to basing. In the past an LEJ base for newcomers was a given. But now, new joiners have been taken on for an EMA base. What are the chances of being given an EMA base from the outset (as an experienced joiner)? If I were to accept an LEJ base I wouldn’t dare live in LEJ due to Brexit and the uncertainties. Therefore I would need to accept a 10/12th full salary commuting deal. Is it viable to commute to LEJ via EMA on jumpseats. Last, but not least, at the present time, what is the likely time to transfer from an LEJ base to EMA?

Any help you could give me would be appreciated.
Fair_Weather_Flyer is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2018, 08:07
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 583
All really good questions and really hard to give clear answers. On the Brexit thing and access to living in Europe you have as much information as everyone else, which isn’t very much. At the moment everyone seems to be getting their base choices, but I have no idea how long that will last or the time scale for a base choice. You don’t say whether you have been for interview or been offered a job - if so what contract has been offered? If not then why not apply and ask these questions at interview, make it clear that ema is your only option and don’t accept a contract that says anything else?

From the line, it’s hard (impossible) to see the big picture on all these things so good luck with whatever you decide.
deltahotel is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2018, 12:34
  #83 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
Can confirm dh, at the moment you would get EMA base, no one knows for how long that will continue. Brexit does not effect if you live in LEJ or EMA, it will simply effect your job no matter were you are based.

You can js to LEJ from/via EMA.
As people are hired with EMA base, the waiting time at the moment is 0.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:35
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 297
Thank you for your help guys. It sounds like there is a lot of uncertainty at DHK right now due to Brexit. But then I guess it must be the same at most airlines.

Last edited by Fair_Weather_Flyer; 20th Jan 2018 at 13:47.
Fair_Weather_Flyer is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 15:39
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
Anyone else here going for interview at EMA in Januari? I am arriving 30/1 with the interview 31/1. Someone know what to expect from the 1 hour interview?
saabkoenig is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 18:06
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by EAM View Post
DHK rosters are quite fatiguing at the moment due to lack of pilots. The rosters are everything,....but easy!
May I ask how this is generally handled in the freight business? It is widely agreed that night work requires sensible roster design to make staff stay focused and long term healthy. Some of the accounts given in the freight dog forum seem to point in another direction though: bad rostering and unnecessary fatiguing of staff. Is this representative? I mean, I have friends that are nurses, bus and subway drivers or railroaders, and their shift work seems to be reasonably managed. I find it hard to believe that a hyper-regulated field like aviation could be less considerate in this regard than other jobs?

After all, this matter is not really a question of preferences, there is hard science on how to do this right as well as how to wreck your staff in no time.
Krautwald is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 19:17
  #87 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
Krautwald, yes night work requires sensible rosters and fatigue risk management.
The problem is like everywhere, if you don´t have enough people to do the job, all this is just on paper. We are heavily under crewed, crewing staff have low or no experience and the fatigue risk management is just a tick in the box.

The new EASA F&D Times don´t really help. People still feel a pressure to complete their duties even they are suffering from fatigue.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 19:59
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Sorry to hear that.

Undercrewed for cost effect or are you hiring? I still ponder on freight being a possible foot in the door for a slightly old-ish low timer as I will hopefully be. But strategic undercrewing might just be a new normal, for freight is logistics is time is money?
Krautwald is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 23:01
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 288
Under-crewing is not intentional, they are hiring a lot right now to address that. Money is not an issue - profits are massive. They put you in 5* hotels and really look after you. There are various part time rosters down to 50%. Regards interview, show a sense of humour and you'll fit in.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2018, 09:02
  #90 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Under-crewing is not intentional, they are hiring a lot right now to address that. Money is not an issue - profits are massive. They put you in 5* hotels and really look after you. There are various part time rosters down to 50%. Regards interview, show a sense of humour and you'll fit in.

Awesome, who are you flying for.

Well, we can´t complain about hotels, but we are not staying in 5* hotels and there is bit of a tendency to go for the cheaper ones like Novotel, Penta and Mercure.

The reason why we are under crewed is, we didn't hire for a year and the managers thought it would be fine, but when you are taking on more work and people are leaving, you can´t catch up by just hiring 10-15 people after a year.
People still leaving, still taking on more work, trainers can´t cope with the new hires, commands and the rest of the training.
Doing 3 sectors a night, 5 Days in a row, working up to the 10:30 max FDP.

It is hard work at the moment and people are really struggling with fatigue and their rest. It will hopefully improve for the summer with more people,
but hey, we are working for DHL, everything is possible.
EAM is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2018, 10:18
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Btw. how is general experience with low timers going straight to B757 T/R?
Krautwald is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2018, 17:18
  #92 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
Quite fine, not a problem.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 08:32
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Still pondering that fatigue issue. EAM you mention 5 nights in a row. After a week like that, do you get time to recreate? What is the birds eye view on your rosters, say in weeks. Is there a week off after a full week of night work or is it pretty much like a regular job (5-2 days, more or less), just that the work hours are after dark?

If the latter applies, this would make the job similar to those gigs in ports or 24/7 plants, where some people are on a „night only“ crew, and adjust ALL of their lives to being night owls because there simply is no time to readjust. In fact, those people are told to adjust to nights 100% because 2 days off between weeks might just confuse you more if you try to switch to regular daytime activity.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 09:11
  #94 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
We have 2 options, flex roster or fixed roster. On the fixed you work nights only, more or less a 8on 6off. On flex you might occasionally get some days flying and after 6 days working at least 3 off days, usually you will fly around 5-6 days having 3-4 days off, plus maybe a rest day.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 11:40
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Wow, 8-6 is 8 nights in a row? 6 off days probably cant compensate for that long term...

Which one do people prefer in terms of fatigue management? (Other factors like commuting/family not considered).
Krautwald is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 11:47
  #96 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
No, its not 8 nights in a row, you need a 34h rest in between, otherwise it would´t work with the EASA rules. You usually do 6 nights with the 34h break somewhere in between.

It depends on peoples need. the 8/6 is perfect for commuting and you have almost a week to recover, on the flex you sometimes just have a trip of 3-4 days.
The nights themselves can be very fatiguing, when you do 3 sectors every night for 3-4 or even 5 days, when you just do 2 sectors a night, it is usually quite ok.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 06:43
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Thank you for explaining.
Krautwald is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 18:26
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by EAM View Post
No, its not 8 nights in a row, you need a 34h rest in between, otherwise it would´t work with the EASA rules. You usually do 6 nights with the 34h break somewhere in between.

It depends on peoples need. the 8/6 is perfect for commuting and you have almost a week to recover, on the flex you sometimes just have a trip of 3-4 days.
The nights themselves can be very fatiguing, when you do 3 sectors every night for 3-4 or even 5 days, when you just do 2 sectors a night, it is usually quite ok.

Depending on how many nights have been worked it is 36 hours / 2 local nights or 60 hours / 2 local nights. Usually this can be done over the weekend when the A/C are in MX.
sarnold is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 19:18
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 36
Posts: 89
Alright, so the idea is to let you sleep 2 nights out of the 8-9 nights in your working bloc?

I might try to go freight once I get all exams and hours sorted...do you guys feel that this is a healthy, steady business, or is it very (too?) dependent on the current economy being so busy?

Everybody kind of fears a downturn, but logistics like air freight may be hit real bad, no?
Krautwald is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 23:15
  #100 (permalink)  
EAM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by sarnold View Post
Depending on how many nights have been worked it is 36 hours / 2 local nights or 60 hours / 2 local nights. Usually this can be done over the weekend when the A/C are in MX.
That is EASA rules, the 34h is due to a variation approved by the CAA, it has a few different rules on it. But that is DHK only.

DHL is the biggest parcel service in the world, the growth becomes more every year. Yes, I would say it is quite a stable business for the next years.
The night flying can be quite hard, we have people who are only able to sleep 2-3h during the day, so it depends on how you can cope with it.
But then it is quite ok.
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